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Waited 17 Wks for 14 Books, Sides Not Sealed4481

Collector brigand80 private msg quote post Address this user
This was my first submission to CBCS, 14 Books all ASP Yellow labels at Megacon Orlando 2017. Books were officially received Jun 2, 2017. I just received all books today (Sep 28, 2017).

At first I was extremely excited and ecstatic with the grades. However, upon further inspection it seems none of the sides are sealed. I was able to spread the sides apart with 2 fingers. This cant be normal, never had this happen with brand new CGC books, which I started using in 2002.

I took pictures of 6 books, and to pissed to take any more as it tooks nearly 17 weeks to get these books back (no clean/press, just straight grade). During my status checks, it seemed like the books were in QC for a few weeks, how did this pass? Also, I live in Orlando and CBCS is only 2 hours away so the time traveled was more than likely minimal. Has anyone else experienced this??? These are pictures of 6 books...too irate to take pictures of all books.
















Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
They don't seal them.
Post 2 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Books should NEVER be completely sealed. One of the things I dislike about CGC new cases, theyre sealed too much. Your book needs to breathe.

Dont be pissed. Be happy. This is normal 🍺
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
This is normal.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Completely normal, I even have CGC cases that I'm able to do that with as well
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Now - let's see the books pleeease
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector brigand80 private msg quote post Address this user
Alrighty then...Who wants to see these Modern Beauties??
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Darkga private msg quote post Address this user
You are giving me an anxiety attack pulling the cases apart like that. You are going to crease your books using that much force.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector JustThatGuy private msg quote post Address this user
superglue it. and then send it to me if you dont want it.
Post 9 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Are we not supposed to talk about the elephant in the room? That's one hairy leg.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
The good thing is that you know what the grade is. You can throw the case away. It's not needed anymore.
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I don't blame you for being surprised. I was also, when I first got slabbed comics many years ago. I expected them to be water proof and sealed against bugs and humidity..

But they are not either waterproof or sealed, and there is good justification for that.

The book needs to breath, I am told. But my question is then, in a sealed polybag or mylite, this has to be bad. Right?
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector brigand80 private msg quote post Address this user
It just caught me by surprise, new CGC books are sealed tight to prevent gases from entering the cases. But after several years, the seals loosen anyway. The reps should've mention that fact when I clearly asked for the differences between the 2 companies. But now, I get why CBCS doesn't seal them. Yes, I got hairy legs..lol







Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
@brigand80 cool books, and trim that shit, lol j/k.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@earthshaker01 guys don't trim!!!
Post 15 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
I’m glad to see clearer heads prevail.

Those are some lovely books. I’m especially jealous of those Paul Mounts sigs, who I need on a few books but hasn’t made any recent appearances that I’m aware of.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@brigand80 great grades as well!
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector brigand80 private msg quote post Address this user
Yea, Mounts was at Megacon Orlando this year. But just noticed CBCS didnt list his name in the Creator section of the label
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I don't blame you for being surprised. I was also, when I first got slabbed comics many years ago. I expected them to be water proof and sealed against bugs and humidity..

But they are not either waterproof or sealed, and there is good justification for that.

The book needs to breath, I am told. But my question is then, in a sealed polybag or mylite, this has to be bad. Right?


The inner well of all CBCS and CGC holders is comprised solely of archival safe Mylar.

If Mylar is good enough to preserve the U.S. Constition, it is good enough for any comic book i.e. any sort of paper stock. 😊

The inner well of both CBCS and CGC holders is made solely of Mylar, and that is the only material that the books are in contact with.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigand80
Yea, Mounts was at Megacon Orlando this year. But just noticed CBCS didnt list his name in the Creator section of the label

Nice books did you read the pro? The plane getting shot down was a nice touch
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
Are we not supposed to talk about the elephant in the room? That's one hairy leg.


That's no leg...
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector brigand80 private msg quote post Address this user
Didn't get to read the Pro...LoL...These aren't the hairy legs you're looking for
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector Krazywan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
I’m glad to see clearer heads prevail.

Those are some lovely books. I’m especially jealous of those Paul Mounts sigs, who I need on a few books but hasn’t made any recent appearances that I’m aware of.
Paul Mounts does appearances at my LCS a few times a year along with Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti. I love their new 52 and current rebirth runs of Harley Quinn. Paul was just there last week for Batman day
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I don't blame you for being surprised. I was also, when I first got slabbed comics many years ago. I expected them to be water proof and sealed against bugs and humidity..

But they are not either waterproof or sealed, and there is good justification for that.

The book needs to breath, I am told. But my question is then, in a sealed polybag or mylite, this has to be bad. Right?


The inner well of all CBCS and CGC holders is comprised solely of archival safe Mylar.

If Mylar is good enough to preserve the U.S. Constition, it is good enough for any comic book i.e. any sort of paper stock. 😊

The inner well of both CBCS and CGC holders is made solely of Mylar, and that is the only material that the books are in contact with.


Actually, CBCS uses PETG - Polyethylene terephthalate Glycol modified (aka. PET, PETE, PETG) Common uses are for storing food and beverages. It is often just referred to as polyester film, which covers a chemically similar range of plastic films. The Glycol additive helps PET remain more flexible and less likely to be become brittle over time.

Mylar is also a polyethylene film, but has some additional processing steps. Mylar is a trademarked name - in the library science field it is simply referred to as Polyester film.

None of the grading companies have ever used Mylar - except CGC's brief experiment with the original Gen 2 case. And those did not have a SEALED Mylar holder. Rather just two sheets of Mylar laid on the front and back of the book and then squeezed tight shut by the outer holder. Mylar is much more difficult to heat seal shut than other plastic films.

Until recently, other grading companies were using Barex plastic. Barex was also used for sealing food and beverages - and also for medicine. The only supplier for Barex shut down the plant a few years ago so places using Barex have been looking for substitutes. CBCS never used Barex and started out using PETG. The other grading companies have or will be switching to some other similar polyester film.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Books should NEVER be completely sealed. One of the things I dislike about CGC new cases, theyre sealed too much. Your book needs to breathe.

Dont be pissed. Be happy. This is normal 🍺



Im confused.... How does this allow the book to breathe if the inner well is completely sealed?
Could you please elaborated?
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I don't blame you for being surprised. I was also, when I first got slabbed comics many years ago. I expected them to be water proof and sealed against bugs and humidity..

But they are not either waterproof or sealed, and there is good justification for that.

The book needs to breath, I am told. But my question is then, in a sealed polybag or mylite, this has to be bad. Right?


The inner well of all CBCS and CGC holders is comprised solely of archival safe Mylar.

If Mylar is good enough to preserve the U.S. Constition, it is good enough for any comic book i.e. any sort of paper stock. 😊

The inner well of both CBCS and CGC holders is made solely of Mylar, and that is the only material that the books are in contact with.


Actually, CBCS uses PETG - Polyethylene terephthalate Glycol modified (aka. PET, PETE, PETG) Common uses are for storing food and beverages. It is often just referred to as polyester film, which covers a chemically similar range of plastic films. The Glycol additive helps PET remain more flexible and less likely to be become brittle over time.

Mylar is also a polyethylene film, but has some additional processing steps. Mylar is a trademarked name - in the library science field it is simply referred to as Polyester film.

None of the grading companies have ever used Mylar - except CGC's brief experiment with the original Gen 2 case. And those did not have a SEALED Mylar holder. Rather just two sheets of Mylar laid on the front and back of the book and then squeezed tight shut by the outer holder. Mylar is much more difficult to heat seal shut than other plastic films.

Until recently, other grading companies were using Barex plastic. Barex was also used for sealing food and beverages - and also for medicine. The only supplier for Barex shut down the plant a few years ago so places using Barex have been looking for substitutes. CBCS never used Barex and started out using PETG. The other grading companies have or will be switching to some other similar polyester film.


I will also add that the Library of Congress will not endorse a brand of material for archival storage.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Books should NEVER be completely sealed. One of the things I dislike about CGC new cases, theyre sealed too much. Your book needs to breathe.

Dont be pissed. Be happy. This is normal 🍺



Im confused.... How does this allow the book to breathe if the inner well is completely sealed?
Could you please elaborated?


It is a good question and one that is surrounded in some controversy.

CBCS says that PETG is not as strong an oxygen barrier as Barex - what CGC / PGX used at the time CBCS started business. I'm not 100% certain what CGC and PGX use now. Barex is no longer being produced. I asked CGC about a year ago and after being gone from the phone for time the customer service rep came back and said it was a polyethylene. But newer CGC slabs I've recently unslabbed the material doesn't really look different.

Because CBCS claims that PETG is more "breathable" than Barex they don't need to use Microchamber paper (MCP), which CGC does.

The reason I say there is some controversy in all this is because...

Artificial aging tests - aimed at determining if MCP helps preserve paper - didn't show much difference between the polyester sleeve being opened at the top or sealed shut. Now I almost hate to even mention it, because a good number of experts in the field of paper conservation feel artificial aging tests are much to flawed to use. The environmental conditions are extreme. 170-190 degrees, 90% humidity - and THEN they pump extra pollutants in. In other words, absolutely nothing like what anyone stores their paper collectibles in.

And while Barex is a better atmospheric barrier than PET/PETG - which is why it was approved to package medicine - the latter is still an effective barrier. PET is most commonly used to bottle drinks. If it were not an effective gas barrier, your Diet Coke in the plastic bottle would be flat, your tea and juices would taste "off" or be spoiled.

So the short answer to your question is that although the inner holder is sealed, it is not gas or water impenetrable. The short version of the long answer above is "not clear if it matters one way or another".

None of this intended to cast any doubts on the value and preservation qualities of professional encapsulation. Collectors wouldn't be able to afford airtight enclosures filled with an inert gas. It probably isn't even possible to manufacture such that would still be airtight and filled with an inert gas a few years later. It would likely need regular evacuation and recharging. The purpose of a slab is to be better than other choices at an affordable price - not a vault or a space capsule. The very best thing collectors can do to preserve their collectibles is to protect them from handling (slabbing can fix that - so too can putting the books away and never touching them again) and storage (environmental) conditions. Fortunately the environment paper likes is also one most people like. If you keep your books in your house - and you air condition your house in the summer and heat in the winter you are probably doing a pretty good job. The only thing to add is keeping your books in the dark. Paper doesn't like light.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Redshade private msg quote post Address this user
Eventually these comics will disintegrate to nothing as will we (we are all stardust).

Enjoy them for the here and now.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshade
Eventually these comics will disintegrate to nothing as will we (we are all stardust).

Enjoy them for the here and now.


Eventually - with proper storage conditions - could really be a lot longer than one might think. Invented in 1844, newsprint official life expectancy is less than 50 years. But there are already comic books much older than that with excellent paper quality. It appears with proper storage newsprint may last hundreds of years.

The gold standard in library science is deacidification of paper. Either by immersion in bath of or spraying on neutralizing/buffering chemicals. Right now that isn't anything collectors seem inclined to accept.
Post 29 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Actually, CBCS uses PETG - Polyethylene terephthalate Glycol modified (aka. PET, PETE, PETG) Common uses are for storing food and beverages. It is often just referred to as polyester film, which covers a chemically similar range of plastic films. The Glycol additive helps PET remain more flexible and less likely to be become brittle over time.

Just want to add that PETG and PET are completely different chemical compounds, not even close to one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Books should NEVER be completely sealed. One of the things I dislike about CGC new cases, theyre sealed too much. Your book needs to breathe.

Dont be pissed. Be happy. This is normal 🍺



Im confused.... How does this allow the book to breathe if the inner well is completely sealed?
Could you please elaborated?

The inner well, PETG, can breathe. Not enough for you to notice if you tried breathing through it, but enough that the chemical off-gassing doesnt build up inside the well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
The gold standard in library science is deacidification of paper. Either by immersion in bath of or spraying on neutralizing/buffering chemicals. Right now that isn't anything collectors seem inclined to accept

Good point. If only. It's not restoration, its conservation. People should be far more accepting of the latter, rather it should be celebrated on GA books. But nope, let them rot.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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destitute