Opinion – various cost of sigs and drawings4452
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| lol Touche! |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
I was NOT.  And I know people who work at IDW! Bastiches!  |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Isn't that gorgeous? I mean the drawing, not Thor...although, Thor looks pretty fetching with those flowing locks... |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Indeed it is! This, plus the Ragnarok H/C book with a sketch inside the Hardcover, plus the Thor Artists Edition for $500 - a deal of the year |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, and my friend at IDW said it was sold out in minutes...apparently, only extended to a select few who were on a previous mailing list...plus, apparently, a website that IDW made up that they didn't intend for anyone to see to test things...oops. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown That is my exact point. Your arguing against "me/strawman" for "presuming that people who are slabbing are doing it for business" When in reality I clearly said (and you quoted as well) "some people (like me) are not looking to make a buck off the slabbed signature". It is the very definition of strawman argument, and it would be much appreciated if you stop doing so when discussing things with me; as it is a fraudulent representation of what I actually said. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There was a creator who wanted around $250 for a sketch on the Harley Quinn comic where she is stealing a painting and the painting is blank. If you know the comic I'm talking about it isn't worth slabbing if you are looking to make a buck. This would be a very small head sketch that would take 5 minutes. How can any reasonable person put $250 into a simple little head sketch on a $5 book. Point being I think the artist needs to take a little look at the situation. As in i'll do the sketch for $25 and whom do I make it out to. Or sure little kid I'll sign your beat up comics and charge these adults behind you. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Or...what you said wasn't really what you meant in the first place, and assuming malicious intent is much further than is warranted by the comments that followed. Again, here's what you said: "The second "slabbing" comes into the equation, it becomes business." How is someone supposed to reasonably interpret that...? It seems perfectly clear at face value, an unqualified, absolute statement. But then you claim that statement IS qualified by this comment, much further down in your response: "Yes, some people (like me) are not looking to make a buck off the slabbed signature" Which, sure, now that you've explained yourself, can be seen as a qualification of your unqualified earlier statement, but they're certainly not connected in any obvious way. How does "not looking to make a buck" mean the opposite of "the second "slabbing" comes into the equation, it becomes business"? There are lots of people in business who are "not looking to make a buck" on every "slabbing" situation, so there's an example that disproves that claim ("the second "slabbing comes into the equation, it becomes business." ) What may seem obvious to you isn't necessarily going to be obvious to others, and maybe you should exercise the benefit of the doubt a bit more. Instead of assuming someone is trying to "straw man" you, assuming they're out to maliciously misrepresent what you said, why not simply acknowledge that what you said could be honestly misinterpreted, and what you meant was something else...? Is that so hard...? Why assume the worst, all the time...? |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Because this is by far not the first time you have done it with my posts, so I've clearly corrected the false representation and asked politely that it no longer continue, in the best interest of a "new message board atmosphere".  |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer If you assume the worst all the time, you will only see the worst...all the time. You cannot ask...politely or otherwise...for something to not continue that doesn't exist in the first place. I've laid out my case. If you choose to see that which isn't there, I can't help you. If you're going to assume that every misunderstanding is a function of malicious intent, perhaps the best advice anyone can give you is to not engage those whom you feel do this to you. Good luck. |
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I went to Baltimore CC both last year and this year. I don't go to too many cons each year. (Only 2 this year). So I noticed a big difference in how many creators were charging for sigs compared to last year. Or had a 2 tier system. Many specifically calling out that it would be more if it was witnessed. Some posted that sigs were free if it was personalized, charge $10 if not. I don't recall any that did this last year. Some of you who go to a lot of cons might have seen a gradual change in this, but for me it was a rather jolting difference. To each his own, but I won't be getting anywhere near as many books signed in the future. This whole issue was discussed back in the late spring/early summer on these forums. I said then and say now, I respect the right of these creators to charge anything they want, while reserving my right to just say no. |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am sure most artists are not happy with the idea of signing comics only to see them sold on eBay. Yet I have not had any artists attempt to charge me a different amount or extra charge for a signature because I might decide to sell it there instead of keeping it. I do not see how getting the book graded is any worse than selling the book, especially if I planned to keep the graded book for myself. While the artists' feelings toward eBay and the grading companies may be equally negative the only reason I can see for charging a premium on graded signatures is that the artists or their handlers believe that the grading companies can be coerced into playing along while eBay and their lawyers would tell these creeps to go soak their heads. If nothing else, this trend will have negative ramifications for the hobby and many of it's enthusiasts. |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I slab Sigs for profit. Signed books go for a premium, and I'm all for paying someone for their labor. These artists carry overhead. Hotel rooms, rental cars, their booth and food are not free. There's no shame in them making a living by supplying what people demand. |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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VictorCreed private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I can see the artist/writer charging more for ppl wanting multiples of the same book signed. Those are most likely going to be sold for profit. | ||
| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Nope. None at all. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. I've never seen anyone disagree with this. The question, then, isn't whether they should be paid for their labor, but how much, and under what circumstances? There is one thing I'll challenge, though: "Signed books go for a premium." That's not necessarily true, and it's certainly not true much of the time. Stan Lee charges $160 for his signature, currently. That means the "break even" point (meaning, the signed book didn't go for a premium) is about $225 if one is to sell the book on eBay. There are about 300 sold listings on eBay that sold for $225 OR LESS, as of today. That means all 300 of those books were sold for break even, or sold at a loss. No doubt, there are about 580+ listings that sold for MORE than the "break even" point. But there were a substantial number...nearly 40%...that sold for no premium, and, in fact, sold for a loss. If the argument is "Signed books sell for a premium", then that has to be true the vast majority of the time. It is not. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VictorCreed I can present someone like, say, Frank Miller with 100 different books that he has worked on, not a single one the same, and every one of them could be sold for "profit" (again, the word "profit" has to be put into context. Selling something, and selling it FOR PROFIT, are frequently...too frequently...totally different things. But I digress.) Then, I could go to another con 2 months later, with the same batch of 100 different books...and repeat. Your argument has merit, but it's based on appearance, and appearance rarely tells the whole story. What if I want a CBCS 9.8 Web of Spiderman #1, and I have 10 copies, ALL of which are very borderline copies...? Those 9.6s aren't worth much more than the cost to slab...but I realllllly want a 9.8 signed by, say, Charles Vess. What if I get ZERO 9.8s...? Sucks to be me, right...? What if I get TEN 9.8s? Yay! But, that wasn't the goal, and if I can pay for the non-9.8s with the sale of another 9.8...I'm not really "making a profit", am I? Was my goal to flip them in the first place...or just ensure I get a 9.8 out of the batch...? (And yes, I've subbed 10 of the same book, and gotten mixed results...50/50 9.8, 9.6. And yes, I've subbed multiples of the same book and gotten ZERO 9.8s. That's pretty annoying.) |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos I agree with this completely. It's an argument that doesn't make a lot of sense. Are these creators offended when something they got paid standard rates for ends up being worth a fortune selling on eBay? How much was Dell'otto paid for his ASM #667 cover...? So, doesn't he DESERVE a cut of that money that people make on eBay when they sell their copies for thousands of dollars...? After all, HIS ART is the reason why that variant is worth so much money...right? (At least, in part.) And the answer, of course, is no. Dell'otto was paid whatever he was paid, and he clearly thought it was fair, because he accepted payment for it, and whatever happens to it after the fact is no longer his concern, no matter who makes money off of it, or why. Same with signed books. They don't belong to the creator, the creator had nothing to do with that copy being in the condition that it is, and charging a "slab surcharge" because of erroneous belief that someone MIGHT be "making money off it" is the same mentality which would suggest Dell'otto deserves a cut of the thousands of dollars that an ASM #667 variant sells for on eBay. His signature takes a lot less effort than that painting did. In fact, I suspect he could have signed the entire print run of that variant in half the time it took to paint that cover. Sign, don't sign, charge, don't charge...whatever you want...just don't charge a DIFFERENT PRICE based on what you imagine someone is going to do with a book after the fact. It's none of your business what happens to it after the fact, and the fact that anyone even ASKS is the most grating thing. It's none of your business what I do with it! "Is that for grading?" "No, I was planning on throwing it into a volcano to sacrifice along with a virgin to the polynesian gods. What business is it of yours what I do with my property...?" But, most people won't say anything because: addicts. Marv Wolfman could have made a couple thousand dollars off of me in the last two years charging $5/sig, which I was happy to pay. Instead, he gets nothing from me...not a dime...in two years, because he believes people slabbing his sig are making money off him that he thinks they don't deserve (when the vast majority of the value of any book is in its condition...not its signature.) |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And then you can say "well, why do the signing yourself? Just buy them on the aftermarket." True. However... I'm currently looking for a Batman #405 CGC 9.8 signed by Miller, and a #407 as well. There haven't been any of those books for sale for a very, very long time...if at all...until recently. There's a seller on eBay selling all four (don't need all four) for a huge asking price over FMV. I bought two #404 9.8s (wasn't sure I was going to get both) for about $300. I bought the #406 for $225. $450 per book is more than they are worth, and the seller doesn't have best offer. So...sad as it is to say, it's actually more cost effective if I WANT the books to get them done myself, rolling the dice, and hoping I can get back at least A 9.8, paying the ~$100 PER SIG that Comic Sketch Art has convinced Frank his signature is "worth." (Hey, at least it's not $600 like it was two years ago.) And I'm a good grader. I can't imagine how risky that would be for most. Why do this? Because: addicts. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown And all of that, by the way, is assuming the "base book" has a value of $0, which obviously isn't true. |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer On your business comment I would like to add a follow-up... - I'd like to know how many flippers on eBay have a business license. - I'd like to know how many of them pay income tax on their intrastate internet sales (Note I stated intrastate). - I'd like to know how many of them pay income taxes on the income generated from their flipping activities. - I'd like to know how many of them are paying sales tax on their sales if they are setting up at a convention. I think it would be entertaining to find out what percentage do any of the above. |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I personally don't think it's too big a deal for some creators to charge for their sigs... Up and comers, no way! I don't like premiums for slabbers. It's silly, since there's no knowledge if the person getting slabs is for their personal collection, profit, etc, and, as said, we take the risk. On the charges, I do agree that a lot of people charge too much, but keep in mind that a number of people charging higher dollar mounts (not ridiculous) at some larger cons like SDCC have larger booths and don't sell as much merchandise, so it's supplementing lower sales with people coming to them for sigs. So, while they're working on commissions, etc, they're signing books for people, too. Yeah, it seems steep, but a lot of the booth spaces get upwards of $10k in areas. It's NUTS. $75 for a sig... $100 for a sig? Nooo... Stan? I will not complain, because he will continue to have lines. People riding the gravy train until it dries up and variable amounts based on certain books hot because of movies/fads AND slabbing, cough cough... Don't like it... Long story short... charging, not a bad thing if you're a name, better if you're running a booth and/or coming from out of town (we never know the ins and outs of conventions where people are "invited", but not actually given accomodations - just tickets, for example), and as long as you're not ripping people off and jacking up pricing for various reasons. AND, stellar original art for sketch covers is a bonus!!! |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is a minor point but worth noting. I have quite a few signed books available for sale in my Ebay store. If these artists want a piece of the pie are they willing to compensate me if the book sells at a loss? | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Ummmm.... yes?  Of course not, but it's all part of consumerism. More and more, people are less interested in buying products from people's booths. They want to take what THEY have to the creators and get them signed. If a creator is going to be able to make themselves available for their fans, they need to be able to monetize for the appearance somehow - thus the signing fee. Ideally, people like Neal Adams have their con exclusives, prints, commissions, etc, which more than make up for it, so they shouldn't need to charge so much for sigs on top of it. That's one reason why people are balking at the high amount (I do agree it is steep... worse is another name brought up who I'm hinting at as well). It's why I mention REASONABLE. I have also met plenty of artists and writers, big names, who don't charge anything... Hearing Bendis does that, too, is awesome. For the most part, I love to hear of big names sitting down at cons and signing, no reservations, but I do understand the consumerism aspect... Not everyone is made of money and they want to get their skin in the game a bit. For the Big 2, they received page rates and often royalties they may be getting residuals to this day on. May not be much and/or it may be loooonnnnngggg gone. Those who charge a LOT, though? I doubt that is applicable. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Exactly! Now we're talking!! |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'll confess that I haven't read everyone's post here. I did scan over a few. My comment is just a stand-alone statement. I reasoned with Neal Adams and he did a sketch for $50 less than his advertised rates. A signature came free with the sketch. I don't care anything about signatures. A signature by itself would have meant nothing to me and you wouldn't have coaxed me into buying one for even a dime. I respect his talent and his accomplishments. As a person, I see him as a business man who knows the value of his name and he works hard to maintain the financial value of his name and the value of his art on the market. His livelihood and his business requires that he not diminish the value of his work. What he charges does not offend me in any way. I paid what my budget allowed for his sketch. If the price had been higher, I would have walked away and still thanked him for considering my request. His comic art can sell for tens of thousands a page. Most modern artist that you meet at shows can't sell their art for that much. As far as I'm concerned, he's a legend in the industry and I feel honored to have anything that he took the time to draw for me. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by X51 But you still talked him down $50, right.....? |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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DavidM private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I used to go to cons in the late 80's early 90's. Artists did not charge for their signature then. I have numerous comics signed by Miller, Gaiman, And Lee. I have many other signatures by lesser names also. The prevailing thought of the time was the signatures brought down the value as they were not mint anymore. I got my comics signed for my personal collection and didn't care if they lost value, they meant more to me. I don't think It's a good thing that artists charge for their signatures but you can blame sports. Baseball and Football guys were charging long before the comic artists did. Bottom line is personal preference. If you really want the signatures, go for it. I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. |
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VictorCreed private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jeremy_K Maybe she didn't want to sketch at all so set a crazy price. |
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