Grading across the 'ages'4278
 Collector
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XxSpideyxX private msg quote post Address this user | |
| After a 20 year absence, I am starting to collect comics again and this third party 10 point system is new to me, but exciting and valuable. I am curious, though if a grade carries the same weight across the ages of comics. For example, if I had a 9.6 modern comic, would a Silver age need to be in the exact same condition to receive the same grade? Or is more condition allowance provided for older comics? In other words, would a comic that is 50+ years old receive a higher grade for a brand new comic in the same condition? |
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 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| No, comics are graded on a curve. Modern comics are held to very strict standards while gold and silver books get more slack. |
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Collector
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
| differences are on * how brittle paper pages can be * pages off the spine ( printing process was different then) * spine roll being much worse * chips off the covers (from age and lack of storage process) * rust from staples on pages |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos I would have to respectfully disagree here. 9.6 is 9.6 regardless of age in terms of the actually condition, Meaning it is subject to the exact same scrutiny as far as Spine stresses, creases, writing, staple quality etc...(its physical condition) While a 9.6 Modern can appear more glossy and shinier due to the advances in paper and printing technologies, that doesn't mean older books are given "More Slack". They are required to display the best original quality for the paper and printing technologies available at the time they were printed. IMHO I believe the shiny modern books are graded much quicker and easier and receive much less scrutiny than Golden or Silver Age books. A 9.6 Silver Age book is a MUCH more difficult grade and Very desirable, Where as a 9.6 Modern book is seen more as a book that fell short of the 9.8. |
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944 You are kidding yourself. Go to Comic Connect or Comic Link where they have a huge quantity and variety of books available. Compare the 6.0 graded books across the ages. Pay special attention to the dirt and wear on the back covers of the older books. Also, look at the spines, Staples, and edges. | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos The discussion was not about mid grade 6.0 books, which are a much more subjective grade. High grade books in the 9.6 -9.8 range are allowed only Very minor flaws, if any at all and are much less subjective. |
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 While there are smaller numbers of silver and golden age books with 9.6s and 9.8s the numbers would be smaller still if the standards were the same. How many of those 9.6s and 9.8s from the golden age have crm / ow pages? I would argue that you would be hard pressed to find 9.6 and 9.8 moderns with similar page quality. |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Your trying to compare apples and Oranges here. Not questioning the Modern Print and paper advantage, which is why they are a dime a dozen in high 9.8 grades and nobody wants a 9.6. And I would argue that there is NOBODY looking to give a premium for 9.6 and 9.8 Moderns with off white pages just because they would "hard pressed" to find it. On the other hand there are PLENTY of people willing to give big premiums for a Golden Age book with White Pages, because it is Much, Much rarer and desirable. Cream/Off White pages also do not effect the Physical grade of the book. Your trying to compare modern Printing Technology with older Printing Technology. That's not the question when it comes to grading. The question is: Does the said book display the best printing and superior qualities from the Printing technologies available at the time they were printed? So again...Older books are not afforded any extra Nicks, Dings or Bends than Moderns. |
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944 I totally 100% disagree with you but since you will not concede any of the legitimate points I have made I do not see the point in continuing this conversation. If you do your homework and compare these books side by side or talk to people that grade for CGC / CBCS / etc. I think you will change your mind. |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Not likely Your trying to grade Technologies Im Grading Books Its been fun talking with ya. Hopefully the OP will be able to make a more informed decision base on the conversation. I would also note to the OP.... this is the reason you'll see so many overgraded Silver, Bronze and Copper age books claiming "High Grade" on Ebay. Seller's who believe that just because a book is older they can be more lenient with it. Be careful of this practice if you do decide to get back into the hobby. |
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| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Perhaps @SteveRicketts or @SteveBorock can chime in. | ||
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 Collector
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 Without offering any quantitive or qualitative reasons why you are incorrect I will state that you ARE incorrect. This is based on 4 decades of working in this industry and talking to those that make such decisions on a daily and professional basis. |
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos- LMAO PS - I also teach Zoology |
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 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My personal experience has been that Golden Age books I have sent in are graded extremely leniently compared to Silver and even more so as they get newer. | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Nice guys for sure, but neither bring anymore experience in handling and accessing books than the 40 years I bring to the table myself. The so called "Professionals" are nothing more than a personal opinion. I tend not to lower my grading standards to appease their opinions. XxSpideyxX: Just remember, when you get those first overgraded books from ebay, you'll know the reason why now. |
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Collector
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX Also be aware, where you get a book can be very important as well. A book sold at an auction house, already in a graded slab, usually gets a much better price than one that has been evaluated and sold by the house itself. Why? The question of how objective the house was in its evaluation. Get something on eBay, not in a slab, and you run the risk of how honest AND objective the seller is. Pictures can be helpful if the item is really the one being sold. |
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Collector
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XxSpideyxX private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me. Perhaps this practice is what appears to allow (to some eyes) a sliding scale to older comics. A 9.6 comic for 1965 doesn't look as good as a 9.6 comic from 2005, but both represent the excellent representions of a 'mint' printing from their respective eras. Perhaps this is why some 'date stamps' are allowed for older books, but probably wouldn't be accepted on a book printed last year. |
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Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So you started again after 20 years. Did you have any saved or did you restart from scratch? I started 3 years ago, but I had no pile. Just a lifetime of reading my brothers for free | ||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by doog And this is based on how many 9.6 - 9.8 Golden age books? 9.6 - 9.8 Silver Age Books? |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by XxSpideyxX Your on the right track here now. |
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Collector
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The overriding and most salient point to understanding why grading has to be adjusted to the vintage of the books is printing. As pointed out above; printing standards and end products have changed over the years. Both printers themselves and the materials used have changed often but generally in synch with their contemporaries--with exceptions like Superior as a caveat--and as such have to be taken into account as an important overall factor in grading. Pulps are a wonderful example of this, because of the paper quality and printing techniques used a whole new grading praxis came into existence. Pulp paper, newsprint, Mando, glossy/cover stock cannot and will not print or age the same, at least in the rate of deterioration. |
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 Collector
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Grayspeedster private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 I sure a shit hope there is no curve. A grade is a grade. Don't grade a book inaccurately just because it's old?!?! Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Irma bro |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 PEDIGREED... Again!
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martymann private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Very interesting thread! Marty |
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Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 9.6. Golden age? Jeez I wish. No the middle and lower grade golden age we poor folk play with are graded much more leniently than the silvers. That's been clear with the 300 or so total books I have sent in. I of course (ahem) consider my self an accurate grader, and the grades I get back reflect that, except the older books mostly get a happy surprise. | ||
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 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There are a pile of defects that are not taken into consideration on older books; specifically because most of them left the factory with those faults (and thus its near impossible to find one without). Both sides of the argument here seem to be correct, to a certain degree. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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PEDIGREED... Again!
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martymann private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Finding a comic book on the newsstand or wall rack that was in good condition was a chore in itself. The books in the best condition were the FOUR COLORS from the revolving racks at W.T. GRANTS or any other Five & Dime...they just didn't seem to get as beat up as there was an employee behind the counter watching you as you browsed. mm |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by doog Again the discussion was in regards to high grade 9.6 -9.8 books Lower to mid Grades due to the multitude of flaws involved are obviously much more subjective and basiclly in the "eye of the beholder" depending on the severity of the flaws in question. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer You are very correct, but there are those rare instances where they did manage a close to perfection printing. Which is why the 9.6 - 9.8 or even the 9.4 grades are so tough to find. |
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