ASM 300 Print Run4222
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown See Im a little too young to know about the newstand sales. Though of course I see them around. Its interesting to me too that some news stand versions go for more or less depending on book. For instance the 87 you're speaking of, the newstand has a more sun orange than the deep reddish orange and goes for a bit more from the what Ive seen. One of my favorite books. What's interesting to me is that second prints of some of these keys, 87, ASM 361, go for so much less despite STILL being a key. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Here's my newest 300, this time a newsstand edition, and not signed by Stan Lee. Might be a 9.4-9.6. I sold my CBCS graded one signed by Stan as soon as I had this one in my hot little hands! |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke It's even safer to say there were about 450,000 copies printed, since that's what the average for the year was. Notice the difference: the average was 451k, but the issue nearest filing date...which would have been #309 or #310...was down to 412k. Interesting, no? However, number printed is meaningless, since the number destroyed is such a big chunk of that (179k.) It's the number SOLD that is of the most value in determining extant copies. I'm not sure how you arrive at 75k ns and 175k direct, but those numbers are as good as any. We just don't know, and Marvel has never released that info...ever...for ANY comic it has ever published. |
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is all clear to me now. Personal consumer recollections cannot match so-called market reports. Got it. | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ok so i read the chart wrong i'm a little enhanced at the moment my bizzle so of that 450,000 copies, 135,000 are newsstands 315,000 are direct editions that is a SH1T TON of copies. woah brah |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
 it's been a minute |
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 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM 300 - the only Spidey anniversary issue I have never read. | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs Yup. Personal consumer recollections from 29 years after the fact can't compete with the written observations of dealers who dealt in comics every day of the week, written at the time the observations were made. I'll take the eye witness accounts of those who were on the ground watching it happen over my fuzzy decades old memories any day of the week. If ASM #300 was sold out the week after it came out, chances are, the store you shopped at didn't order properly. In any event, multiple mail order dealers had copies for the rest of 1988 at reasonable ($1.50-$4.00) prices, and I suspect there were dozens, if not hundreds, of copies available at cons like Chicago and San Diego that summer for about the same prices. A hot the moment it came out book #300 was not. ASM #361...that was a different story. |
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, it's not my recollection that is hazy or inaccurate; it's just that my personal experience may not be indicative of the entire market, which makes sense. And I'm okay with that. | ||
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In a 450,000 print run, even say 1/4 of that lost destroyed whatever, thats still a lot of damn books. So a hot book, a hot character, a loved artist will most likely outweigh a high print run is what Im gathering. Even if thats the high mark and HALf the books were destroyed thats still over 200,000 copies!!!! Demand is demand says the man | ||
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @kaptainmyke So thats also something I wonder. Because of the newstand print, will this fetch more or is it about the same. And as a personal collector because the print run is lower, is this the more sought afer book!? |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Probably. | ||
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ?? Just checked ebay recent sold listings. $200 gets a nice newsstand edition. Isn't that ok for you? | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NilesPaine Remember: an average of 179,000 copies were returned from newsstand vendors during that year. That means they were destroyed. That comes right off that 450,000 figure. It's a reasonable guess...but still just a guess...that there were 250-300k copies left after the fact. That's roughly the same number as New Mutants #98. The reason NM #98 is a several hundred dollar book in 9.6-9.8, while X-Force #2 can't be given away, is because there were 4-6 times as many copies of X-Force #2 printed, and almost all of them were saved. The stories of people with "unopened cases" of ASM #300 are almost certainly fiction. No one but a large dealer would have ordered a case of a book that hadn't had a hot issue in four years (ASM #252), from an artist that most people didn't know, and a character that was, at the time, just a continuation of the story from #252. Why would they? The books people speculated on in 1988 were Green Arrow: LBH, Wolverine #1, Excalibur #1, and PWJ #1. ASM #300 was not on anyone's "going to be hot" radar. |
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by det_tobor Ehhh I was lookin for a Krispy Kreme super clean guy. Also I was looking at more of the buy it now prices. Also I'm sorta new to ebay still so I have NO CLUE how to view that!? Maybe I'm ebaying all wrong?? Lol |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrownThat is true. I have about 10 copies of Excalibur 1 shot, had multiples of Punisher#1 green cover, 10 Wolverine #1 black cover and a couple sets of Green Arrow LBH. Had 10 Flash#1 and 10 JLA#1. Those were the hot books at that time. |
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by det_tobor Damn, I got 10 of them!!!! |
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Its funny you mention X Force Doc because my LCS has about 3 #2s and because the quality isn't pristine, there they sit. Books like that I'm sure there are tons of 9.8s so why even bother picking up a mid grade especially if the runs are as high as you say. So not to divert too far from the thread, but I wonder, how many people are taking the time to grade say x force or x factor. There are some good appearances but if you're telling me print runs in the millions, I cant see unless having a NM+, what would be the sense save for long term preservation. |
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn 10 of . . . What say you!?!? |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown These numbers don't add up. How can 179,000 newsstand copies be returned when supposedly only around 135,000 newstands were printed in total. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck I think the answer you seek is in the first sentence.... |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To flesh the answer out a little further: throughout the 80's, the vast, vast majority of copies printed were newsstand copies. Why? Because for decades, the newsstand system was the only way in which comic books were distributed. And the newsstand method of distribution was to print far in excess of what was projected to sell, and hope for a sell-through rate of 40-50%, though the average was about 25-35% per issue. That means if a publisher printed 500,000 copies of a book...not an unusual figure in the 60's, say...they expected to sell 125,000-175,000 copies. The rest would be returned for credit and destroyed (there were various methods to handle this over the years.) That's why, when you buy a new book these days, on the copyright page, there's usually a statement that says "if this copy was sold without its cover, the author and publisher may not have received payment for it." Those were "stripped" copies that were listed as "unsold", for which the vendors received credit. So, assuming a 450k total print run, perhaps 250-350k of that were newsstand copies...of which perhaps 175k were returned for credit, leaving a net amount of 75-175k newsstand copies and 100-200k Direct copies extant after the return process was done. In other words, since Direct market books were non-returnable, publishers could print to order, without having to worry about the massive overprinting of the newsstand system. And that's what they did, plus maybe 10% for damages, reorders, and the like. If they expected to sell 200,000 Direct copies, they'd print maybe 210k. If they expected to sell 200,000 newsstand copies, they'd have to print 600,000-800,000 copies, of which 400-600k would be "returned for credit." The newsstand return system really rendered the "total copies printed" line essentially moot when it came to figuring out the copies still extant. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NilesPaine Before Batman #612, second (and later) printings were thought of as a step above birdcage liner. Nobody wanted them. They were avoided like the plague. Nobody, but nobody, wanted a second printing in their collection. Plus, most second printings of hot books in the early 90's were printed in gobs and gobs...the publishers had already paid for the material, and so it cost them virtually nothing to print the hell out of them...and they did. I daresay there was double the amount of NM #87 seconds as firsts. That all changed with Batman #612, when a publisher finally realized they could do something reallllly cool with a second printing. |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DocBrown Thats a good point. I just recently purchased a second print New Mutants#87, 9.8 candidate for $10. I bought it because I missed the boat on the first printing. But back them, yeah nobody wanted second prints. It has an UGLY briwn cover. Yuck. | ||
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips Is it brown?? Seems more goldish from the pics. I'll probably grab a copy to go with first print. I just like that blacked out barcode. Shame it wasn't a white background.  |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think they realized they could do really cool stuff with second prints on Batman #608. Or was that just a fluke of luck? | ||
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by NilesPaine 10 screw ups. Only one newstand in the batch... sorry, got carried away with greed.... |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| We just don't know, and Marvel has never released that info...ever...for ANY comic it has ever published. Just curious...do you know why this is? |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaard I don't have an actual answer but maybe something along the lines of never show your cards to your opponent?? I don't know how that would help or hurt DC by revealing that but its a good place to start. Does DC reveal their print runs does anyone know?? |
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