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ebay buyer accuses me of switching labels!4188

Collector Grayspeedster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by neyko
In a nutshell and all seriousness, is my first submission to CBCS that I am waiting on and has a number of Golden books (ie the submission is expensive) now going to carry as little value as PGX due to this?


There is no comparison to PGX here. None. Zero. There are clouds in the sky, but it is not falling by any means. PGX books sell for far less because the company got caught cheating; that sky fell, and rightly so.

CBCS is known to be honest, care about their customers, and have to best graders there are. In those aspects they are, and will remain, #1.

Bad news travels faster than good news though, and they do need to get ahead of this whole slab-security issue ASAP.


Well put good friend!
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I'm having trouble identifying the "chicken little" posts, can someone point them out to me?

One thing I have learned over the past 3 weeks. My definition of "completely secure" is not the same as other people.

Things that concern me going forward.

1) That CBCS actually comments on what has been pointed out as a glaring QC problem that allowed slabs to leave their building which had zero heat seals touching the labels (which we now know is the only easily visible tamper evident feature of the CBCS slab).

2) Does CBCS intend to do anything to mitigate those potentially compromising slabs being in the marketplace, like a reholder discount program?

3) How does CBCS plan on improving the tamper evidence of its products going forward. Because now that the ability of the outer shell being easily and cleanly opened is public knowledge, relying on the current heat seal fix just isn't good enough in my opinion.

Personally I have decided to cease all CBCS slab activity, both submissions and purchasing of slabs from the marketplace, until these 3 questions get answered to my satisfaction.
Post 152 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego Well said. I was hoping to educate myself to evaluate books slabbed in this manner but the inconsistency means passing on a lot of books with insufficient heat seals that were probably not tampered with.
Post 153 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Okay buyer asks for a stack of cbcs slabs that shows the same damage on the sides. I think JWkyle and a few others had some photos of this phenomenon. He said if he saw some photos of it he'd consider dropping the return case.


I will see if I have a few when get home from work


just grabbed the one which was closest - let me know if you need further

Post 154 IP   flag post
Collector kclaw97 private msg quote post Address this user
Just got this one yesterday...
Post 155 IP   flag post


Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
@poka, @kclaw97 good pics guys. That's exactly what every one of my cbcs slabs looks like.
Post 156 IP   flag post
Collector kclaw97 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
@poka, @kclaw97 good pics guys. That's exactly what every one of my cbcs slabs looks like.

This was the first with the 'markings' and the side able to open. Honestly if I applied any more pressure it probably would have caused damage to the case.
Post 157 IP   flag post
Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
The irony of this happening literally the week I have been deciding to try out CBCS or not is pretty much the autobiography of my life. So I wasn't hugely concerned as I usually don't buy secondhand grades. I didn't really mind it at first but the more I read it's got me sort of meh. In terms of resell this is a HUGE concern as is proven. I don't plan on selling my books for years, but at the same time, "when did you slab those" will be a pretty annoying conversation to have once the time comes.

The main problem is there are ALWAYS a few people who will ALWAYS exploit something. I can just see the crooks following that video and practicing now. Con season knocking at the door?? And this breaks??

CBCS needs to get ahead of this and make some kind of statement about how they are going to proceed forward. Not just a pop up on a forum "heat seals sometimes maybe possibly if/when it works??" Like an OFFICIAL statement. Your main job as a business is keeping your consumer informed and happy. I hope for their sake they are hastily coming up with a remedy because CGC will have a FIELD DAY with this. I doubt they'd do a reslab program, at least not until next year after con season. Anyone have a recent batch, say July or this month?? and if so how legit are the heat seals inside??
Post 158 IP   flag post
Collector dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user
Some of the sides of these cases look really unsightly/damaged and it's disappointing. A new user will post about this every couple of months or so on the forums.

So it's pick your poison...cracked sides or newton rings. Apologies for piling on, but it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaw97
Just got this one yesterday...
Post 159 IP   flag post
Collector kclaw97 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpiercy
Some of the sides of these cases look really unsightly/damaged and it's disappointing. A new user will post about this every couple of months or so on the forums.

So it's pick your poison...cracked sides or newton rings. Apologies for piling on, but it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaw97
Just got this one yesterday...


I totally agree. IMO I'd rather have the unsightly blemishes on the side of the case than the rings smack dab in the middle of a beautiful cover. I reached out to CBCS and we're working on getting it reholdered. It's a Batman 21 Lenticular signed by King/Fabok so I could live with it if I wanted to. If it were one of my grails I'd probably be a little more concerned.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I'm having trouble identifying the "chicken little" posts, can someone point them out to me?


Sure, right here. You agree with this stuff? Your post above, detailing that you have stopped your business with CBCS until you see certain things, is clear and levelheaded; and I can respect that.

I'm not happy about the situation either, although it won't stop me from submitting or buying, CBCS now desperately needs a generation 2 outer holder; one without cracking, and is actually "tamper-evident". We did not get a turnaround update this week, and according to the last one my books should have been in grading; yet all remains silent and they are not. I suspect something is up.


But THIS? 👇🏻 These posts need a DocBrown level of tearing into with text wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
This is exactly what happened to PGX with their "Scandal". They were never able to recover from the collecting community perception


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

AND here we go!
CGC is going to ABSOLUTELY crush CBCS like a cockroach over this! The campaign has most likely already started. Im not sure how the up and coming CBCS will ever survive this.

Those itty bitty "heat seals" on "some of" the labels were never meant as a security measure, and if they were they would be an absolutely laughable excuse for a security measure for ANY Authentication Company claiming to be a legitimate player in the grading game. EVEN with those ridiculous tiny heat seals the Label is still prone to trimming and touch up in order to reuse it.

ANYTHING less than a state of the art Embossed CBCS Logo Heat seal or such, and a $5-7 reslabbing fee program to allow customers the option of reslabbing with the New security feature, And CBCS is TOAST!

Even then Im not sure they survive once the CGC crowd begins the onslaught to crush them and reduce them to PGX (maybe lower) status and its GAME OVER!

Its a shame and really saddens me as I was really hoping for a legitimate alternative and competition they could have brought to the hobby to benefit the collecting community.

Bummer!!! I never even got to use the $100 from the bronze membership I purchased. I guess I should be thankful that I discontinued using CBCS services after the first security issue was raised.

Im kind of looking forward to hearing from the many who stated that the slab security wasn't a concern to them.

I can only pray for Steve and the good folks at CBCS for the Onslaught that is inevidently coming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
Well, claims about the sky falling have begun. Let's not blow this out of proportion. I don't foresee any crushing occurring.


ARE YOU SERIOUS? Kaptainmyke put his trust in faith in CBCS and stated he WIL NEVER buy another CBCS book! And this is from a CBCS supporter! And I don't blame him one bit!

I would like to continue to be a strong advocate for CBCS, But Im not willing to use the service or buy CBCS books until the security issue is resolved.

Your ABSOLUTELY insane if you don't think CGC and its crowd are not going to be on this like a feeding frenzy to De-legitimize CBCS into extinction. Hell even the PGX crowd will be able to make a case in their favor.

You guys can make light about the security of Authenticated books all you want, but the bottom line is, It's absolutely the ONLY thing that matters.

THE ONLY reason to even use an authentication service is to be able to sell the book for the premium value that its authentication brings.

Once the security of that Authentication is called into question and or jeopardized(weather it perceived or not) the valued attached to that Authentication is GONE, and the company issuing the said Authentication has NO respectability or trust among the collecting community. Just ask Kaptainmyke.



And for those who say there's any other more important factor than MONEY, in having a book slabbed in the first place...... I say HOGWASH! Its THE ONLY REASON!

Do you want your Amazing Fantasy #15 in a slab with very real security issue's like were seeing here when it comes time to sell it?

How bout your Golden or Silver Age Keys? There is absolutely NO other reason to have them slabbed and Authenticated other than Premium Value and the sell ability that comes from the buyer confidence and security in that Authentication. Its that simple. If this was not the case everyone would just send all their books to PGX, which in light of this Security issue might be a better option than CBCS if they DO NOT act fast and decisively in implementing a state of the art Tamper proof product that will restore User and Buyer confidence. It actually may be to late for them to recovery at this point.

I hope Im wrong.
Post 161 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer if BigRed had said anything that was untrue, I'd give him a good ol' Doc Brown keyboard lashing. Unfortunately, he's not wrong, maybe a bit dramatic, but not wrong.
Post 162 IP   flag post
Collector Grayspeedster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer if BigRed had said anything that was untrue, I'd give him a good ol' Doc Brown keyboard lashing. Unfortunately, he's not wrong, maybe a bit dramatic, but not wrong.


Sad but true
Post 163 IP   flag post
Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
Dramatic can be just as bad as being wrong because exaggeration breeds misinformation. That's been my problem with those types of posts from the beginning. New readers and hobbyists have a tough time digesting the information, and these threads get way too long (and off topic) as we all know.

This one, for instance, is about unfounded allegations that kap switched out a modern R&M book. Let's not forget that better heat seals will not close the slab airtight, so this buyer might still complain if he tried to squeeze open a (theoretical) new case.

Everyone can agree something ought to be done, but the issue does not make the slabs worthless, does not make Newton rings better, and does not undermine the fact that CBCS is also a grading company, not merely a slabbing company. Pick apart these statements all you want (directed to no one in particular, in all seriousness), but there's truth to this.
Post 164 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
This thread is terrifying.

As an e-bay seller myself, this is a nightmare scenario. I'm glad it looks like it's turning around though.

CBCS absolutely has to address this issue & up the security on their slabs simply for peace of mind.
Post 165 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer if BigRed had said anything that was untrue, I'd give him a good ol' Doc Brown keyboard lashing. Unfortunately, he's not wrong, maybe a bit dramatic, but not wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayspeedster
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer if BigRed had said anything that was untrue, I'd give him a good ol' Doc Brown keyboard lashing. Unfortunately, he's not wrong, maybe a bit dramatic, but not wrong.


Sad but true


@DarthLego @Grayspeedster
Here are your "truths" then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
This is exactly what happened to PGX with their "Scandal". They were never able to recover from the collecting community perception


Untrue. Not even close to what happened with PGX. CBCS is not being accused of underhand dealing, lying, or stealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

AND here we go!
CGC is going to ABSOLUTELY crush CBCS like a cockroach over this! The campaign has most likely already started. Im not sure how the up and coming CBCS will ever survive this.


Untrue. Assuming CBCS addresses the problem with their slab, nothing will come of it, much less being "crushed like a cockroach". CGC had slabs that were damaging comics, arguably worse than CBCS current problem of the "possibility" of a label swap, and they were not "crushed".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Those itty bitty "heat seals" on "some of" the labels were never meant as a security measure, and if they were they would be an absolutely laughable excuse for a security measure for ANY Authentication Company claiming to be a legitimate player in the grading game. EVEN with those ridiculous tiny heat seals the Label is still prone to trimming and touch up in order to reuse it.


It sounds as if you are accusing CBCS of lying here. I cannot claim untrue on this one, but I'm sure CBCS will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

ANYTHING less than a state of the art Embossed CBCS Logo Heat seal or such, and a $5-7 reslabbing fee program to allow customers the option of reslabbing with the New security feature, And CBCS is TOAST!


Untrue. None of the other grading companies have this made up security feature you are claiming they must do in order to not be "TOAST", and yet they are not toast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Even then Im not sure they survive once the CGC crowd begins the onslaught to crush them and reduce them to PGX (maybe lower) status and its GAME OVER!


Untrue. CBCS will not be reduced to a level lower than PGX over the security measures of their slab. PGX committed outright fraud, and has a reputation of missing restoration and overgrading books. You honestly believe this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Im kind of looking forward to hearing from the many who stated that the slab security wasn't a concern to them.

I can only pray for Steve and the good folks at CBCS for the Onslaught that is inevidently coming.


Sure, here I am. This thread was not brought about by the security issue of CBCS slabs; it was brought about due to an ongoing issue since CBCS opened its doors: the cracking on the side of the slabs from breaking them off from each other after the mould process. Yet you've somehow turned it into CBCS being reduced to PGX-level crap. This issue has been around since day 1, and while it is irritating, everyone who subs to CBCS has known about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Kaptainmyke put his trust in faith in CBCS and stated he WIL NEVER buy another CBCS book! And this is from a CBCS supporter! And I don't blame him one bit!

Kap was pissed off, and rightly so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Your ABSOLUTELY insane if you don't think CGC and its crowd are not going to be on this like a feeding frenzy to De-legitimize CBCS into extinction. Hell even the PGX crowd will be able to make a case in their favor.


I believe this untrue as well. CGC does not talk about, nor tolerates talk about CBCS in their forum. Further, the PGX crowd cannot possibly compare outright fraud to a slab that is discovered to be less than secure (that has yet to be compromised in a sale). Absolutely insane? I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

You guys can make light about the security of Authenticated books all you want, but the bottom line is, It's absolutely the ONLY thing that matters.

Again, untrue, but can be true for some (sellers). I use CBCS for grading. Security is a big plus. It is not the ONLY thing that matters. I'm not ok with the situation either, but I don't think I'm making light of it either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

THE ONLY reason to even use an authentication service is to be able to sell the book for the premium value that its authentication brings.

Absolutely Untrue. CBCS is a grading company, and quite a few of us use them first and foremost to grade our books, not to sell them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Once the security of that Authentication is called into question and or jeopardized(weather it perceived or not) the valued attached to that Authentication is GONE, and the company issuing the said Authentication has NO respectability or trust among the collecting community. Just ask Kaptainmyke.


There is some truth to this. CBCS will not lose trust as they have not committed fraud. Perception of their slabs could very well take a hit though, if they don't address their supposed "tamper evident" cases. However, claiming no respectability over this is ridiculous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

And for those who say there's any other more important factor than MONEY, in having a book slabbed in the first place...... I say HOGWASH! Its THE ONLY REASON!.


Speak for yourself. Many of my slabs are for ME, and would only be sold off under extreme financial circumstance. Many of my books were submitted with the sole purpose of protection and grading. Hogwash? I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

Do you want your Amazing Fantasy #15 in a slab with very real security issue's like were seeing here when it comes time to sell it?


Right now, in terms of re-sale, no actually. You are correct here, people are nervous and CBCS has to put forth some kind of statement and action asap so that people will continue submitting books. I do agree that this situation IS bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944

How bout your Golden or Silver Age Keys? There is absolutely NO other reason to have them slabbed and Authenticated other than Premium Value and the sell ability that comes from the buyer confidence and security in that Authentication. Its that simple. If this was not the case everyone would just send all their books to PGX, which in light of this Security issue might be a better option than CBCS if they DO NOT act fast and decisively in implementing a state of the art Tamper proof product that will restore User and Buyer confidence. It actually may be to late for them to recovery at this point.

I hope Im wrong.


You are wrong, your wish is granted I do want my keys in CBCS slabs, because I want the most accurate grade and the protection the slab gives them. Why would I, or anyone else for that matter, possibly consider PGX given that they overgrade books and miss restoration? It seems your only purpose for a grading company is resale, while for the majority of the collecting community, it is grading and collecting.
Post 166 IP   flag post
Collector kclaw97 private msg quote post Address this user
I don't want to poo poo anyone's process but for my own curiosity...if my books are reflected as being in QC for 3 days on the dashboard, how do instances like this occur? What is occurring during that time (3 days) to ensure that what goes out the door is 100%? shouldn't any sort of 'non conforming' item be flagged and the issue addressed?
Post 167 IP   flag post
Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer, excellent point-by-point response, and quite reasonable also. I suppose it's true what they say -- patience is a virtue.
Post 168 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I guess I have to drive to my hangar and take photos of all my cbcs slabs with the scuffed up sides. Remember when I made a big stink about these scuffs and scratches last year? I called and CBCS said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack, CBCS Customer Service
...only 10% of CBCS customers look to resell, so it's not much of a problem so we let the scored slabs go out anyway so we don't waste product.




Seriously. That was Zack at customer service...
Post 169 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@kaptainmyke I went on ebay this morning under "contact seller" and wrote you a nice note about the book I just purchased from you; that it arrived, but you swapped it out for a dirty magazine that had cracks on it ... I decided not to hit the send button, wasn't sure how your mood would be this morning

Looking forward to that book arriving though . You're an honest seller; and you can quote me on that any day.
Post 170 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer You misunderstood the PGX analogy completely Shrew. He was not comparing CBCS to PGX, he was comparing how a scandal (any scandal) can hurt the long term reputation of a company in the marketplace.
Post 171 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaw97
I don't want to poo poo anyone's process but for my own curiosity...if my books are reflected as being in QC for 3 days on the dashboard, how do instances like this occur? What is occurring during that time (3 days) to ensure that what goes out the door is 100%? shouldn't any sort of 'non conforming' item be flagged and the issue addressed?

My last invoice was in QC for 2.5 weeks and the slabs came to me with zero heat seals on the labels.
Post 172 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer You misunderstood the PGX analogy completely Shrew. He was not comparing CBCS to PGX, he was comparing how a scandal (any scandal) can hurt the long term reputation of a company in the marketplace.


I understand that, and it's a legitimate concern that CBCS values will take a hit over this if it is not addressed soon, and not #soon.

My point is that the hit will not be comparable to PGX-level shenanigans. Its a comparison of "possible" label switching by end users vs a company doing outright fraud/stealing.
Post 173 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I agree, CBCS is far from a PGX level PR Nuke being dropped. I'm more worried about CBCS dying from a thousand small cuts going unanswered. I hope CBCS gets out ahead of this while we are still on cut number three.
Post 174 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
All I know is that Steve Borock acted immediately the last time CBCS had an issue. As long as I have known Steve he has always done the right thing. The fact that it is taking this long lends me to believe this is now someone else's decision to make.
Post 175 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
I'm hoping they're having a big meeting about this issue, and they just want to have a solution in progress before they respond with an official statement.
Post 176 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
I'm hoping they're having a big meeting about this issue, and they just want to have a solution in progress before they respond with an official statement.

I got into trouble early on in my business because I did not communicate correctly with customers. After years of doing what I do, I find it easier to at least say something instead of nothing. Not always the easiest thing, but it is the best.
Post 177 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
I agree. Something, anything, is better than total silence. My comment was just an attempt to rationalize the lack of communication.
Post 178 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Hey I agree. I did not want to make this thread. But people need to be aware.
Post 179 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Definitely. I don't like the accusatory tone of the Buyer's e-mails, but when it comes to high dollar books,

I understand his wanting to be sure he got the 9.8 he paid for. He did, & we know that. But his paranoia is somewhat understandable.
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