ebay buyer accuses me of switching labels!4188
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944, yes, I get it. But the pgx situation is entirely different. And I've said this many times: nothing is truly foolproof, which is why you have million-dollar works of art forged. With that said, the R&M book here is not even close to presenting the risk of a switch from what I can tell based on this thread and now the notes. And the buyer has not described a single anomaly that reflects s switch, mind you. |
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| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 Right. So you couldn't switch out a 9.8 for a far lower book. The notes are not pointless if they tell you what flaws the 9.8 has. I don't get your point here. |
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| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| well he said he dropped the book off at a LCS and he put the idea in his head i switched books because the sides are all scuffed up and mangled. I think too he tried to stretch open the sides, which you can do anyways, and he thinks I switched books or something. Initially he said labels then it changed to the book itself, and now he is focusing on the damage on the sides of the case and scratches in the plastic mold. Remember that I made similar claims on 90% of my slabs last year. I think this guy should just get a reholder but I never even discussed that with him. | ||
| Post 103 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 100% wrong, WRT the bolded part. PGX pulled numerous scams, search the CGC Forums for threads on specifics. CBCS has an impeccable reputation. Look at their grading staff. West Stephan, Steve Borock, and so on. Look at their resumes. Your comparison of CBCS to PGX makes no sense, whatsoever. In no way, shape or form are CBCS and PGX comparable. |
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| Post 104 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Before doing anything else, add the buyer to your blocked list so he can not do this to you ever again. If he threatens you with negative feedback that is against the rules. At the very least if you contact Ebay with proof of the threat (or win a case against the buyer) he will not be able to leave you feedback at all. As others have suggested you should call Ebay and review the facts of the case (third party books, buyer comments, etc.) and let them tell you what you should do). Do not accept any returns without calling Ebay first. Since I have not yet sold anything other than slabbed books in my Ebay store the only problems I have had were with cases cracked in transit when the post office was rough with my package. USPS priority mail automatically includes up to $50 of free insurance (up to $100 if you are a top rated seller). Every single time this happened the buyer was happy to take a $50 partial refund for their trouble (to re-slab the book themselves). In some cases I needed to spend time educating them about how to re-slab the books but that is about it. If you are pro-active, respond to all of the buyers messages with at least the appearance of trying to be helpful, and stay in contact with Ebay there is no reason you should have to accept a return on your book. If the case is damaged (unless the buyer proves that he did it) tell the buyer to keep everyting including the packaging and tell Ebay that it must have been damaged in transit by the carrier (and file a claim with them). I have never returned a slabbed book and do not see why you should have to either. |
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| Post 105 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs The point is That I can most certainly find a high end 9.4 or any 9.6 book that has basically the same grader notes and you would never know the difference. Im MORE than confident that I could lay out two 9.6 book and 1 9.8 book with similar generalized grader note and you would note be able to assign the correct notes to all 3 books. |
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| Post 106 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Offer to give him money to re-holder the book and he will probably go away. If you sent the book with USPS Priority mail or paid for insurance, ask the buyer that you will file a claim with the post office and that they need to hold onto the packaging, book, etc. until the claim has been resolved. |
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| Post 107 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Your missing the point. Your trying to make it into a CBCS vs PGX.... That's not the intent here Its about The PRECEPTION! Once your tagged with that PRECEPTION (right, wrong or indifferent) it's next to impossible to shake it. Of coarse you searched the CGC forums. Nothing like get the full story from competition. Im sure the CGC forums are going to give CBCS a glowing review as well. |
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| Post 108 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944, so you say: "The point is That I can most certainly find a high end 9.4 or any 9.6 book that has basically the same grader notes and you would never know the difference. Im MORE than confident that I could lay out two 9.6 book and 1 9.8 book with similar generalized grader note and you would note be able to assign the correct notes to all 3 books." It sounds to me like your 9.6 in that case is actually a 9.8. What you are describing would require an awful lot of work for relatively little upside. I think you are drastically oversimplifying how easy it would be to do what you claim. And so I would challenge you to do it. |
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| Post 109 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jrs I am with you on this one. It is one thing to say that you can do swap out the books but quite another thing to actually do so. Until we see video proof of someone actually switching out books (without damaging or using already damaged cases) and putting everything back in a way that is not detectable it didn't happen and is not possible. @BigRedOne1944 You can't simply make bold claims against a reputable company without providing any evidence to back it up. Until you can post a video with this proof, all you are doing is repeating yourself and spreading rumors. |
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| Post 110 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs I don't accept the "nothing is truly Foolproof" excuse. Even if that is true there's absolutely no excuse for not putting in the effort to implement something more substantial than a these so-called "heat seals" that anybody can see was nothing more than a QC issue they tried to pass off as a security measure once they were called out on the possible security issue. |
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| Post 111 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jrs With some books the price difference between a 9.4, 9.6, and 9.8 can be $100s to $1000s of dollars. There is plenty of upside for unsavory people with more time than morales. | ||
| Post 112 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos We already saw the video, get the ants out of your eyes. |
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| Post 113 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Also, what was seen in the video has already been replicated by Seal Team Ricks. There is no longer a question of validity of the video. | ||
| Post 114 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego For those of us that missed the video is it too much to ask that someone post it here? Also, (unless the video is clear on this) can the process completed in the video be completed with any CBCS slab or only with damaged cases (or older cases not used anymore)? |
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| Post 115 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944, you are now in the realm of making the cgc fanboy argument here. Let cbcs devise a solution and enjoy your slabbed books in the meantime. The grade is still the primary reason I sent my books in, not so the coffin could never be opened. Let's stop playing in hypotheticals and talk about the R&M book at issue, which nobody credibly claims was switched out. And yes, @DarthLego, there are some books with such a differential. But again the grader notes are worthwhile and useful to serve as a check. And nobody on this board has described an experience where a switch has happened to them as of late. |
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| Post 116 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos Theres is no damage to the cases, any CBCS slab can be opened and reclosed. And if the Heat Seals are missing because it came from a bad QC batch then the label can be taken out. This is why we made such a big deal about the Heat Seals, they are the ONLY thing preventing fraud at this point. | ||
| Post 117 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs Little Upside! The price spreads between a 9.6 and 9.8 can be huge! Virtually all 9.6's are 9.8's on any givin day. Im not saying I can swap the books. Im saying That if some with the time and desire to do so did it You would not know the difference in the books |
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| Post 118 • IP flag post | ||
 He sounds like a vegan who wants real mayonnaise to be vegan friendly.
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Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @CopperAgeKids... Just curious on this. And feel free to PM me if you want to keep it off this topic. But has any new issues with PGX happen? I know that there was the TMNT #1 swap, which was recorded. As well as talks of favoritism (of sorts) that resulted in trimmed comics getting higher grades, as well as select titles receiving higher grades. And that some of these cases resulted in lawsuits, etc. Which I cannot say includes any additional titles that were graded by those who work for PGX, etc. Which is why I was wary of having anything tied to them in the past. And presently feel that their slabbing looks cleaner, versus CGC and CBCS. But not have a few aspects that has me give CBCS a chance. |
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| Post 119 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I found the locked thread but the video was removed by the Youtube user. So it would seem that the heat seals are the proof of integrity and their absence would indicate the lack of security or the possibility of tampering. In other words the cases used for the label swap included at least one that had been damaged and it is not possible to swap just any label and put everything back the way it was. This leads me to two follow up questions: 1. How often does a batch go out without heat seals (quality control issue)? 2. When inspecting a book in hand (or looking at pictures) how does one identify (and where does one look) a missing heat seal? |
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| Post 120 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos The first video which wasn't helpful got removed, the second one should still be available. I'll find it, hang tight. | ||
| Post 121 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, looks like video 2 went poof...Good thing nothing goes poof on the watch of Seal Team Ricks. Give me a bit and I'll hook this all up. | ||
| Post 122 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego I tried to search Youtube and came up empty as well. | ||
| Post 123 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is why we made an concerted effort to save this when the first one went away. I have the raw file, I'll put the damn thing on my own YouTube for all eternity if I have to. | ||
| Post 124 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have a copy too | ||
| Post 125 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Okay buyer asks for a stack of cbcs slabs that shows the same damage on the sides. I think JWkyle and a few others had some photos of this phenomenon. He said if he saw some photos of it he'd consider dropping the return case. | ||
| Post 126 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos The fact that there is so much inconsistency with the whole cheesy little heat seals leads me to believe that they were NEVER really intended as a Security measure. and even if they were they could still be pretty easily manipulated (Trimmed, colored etc..) as any damage from the "Heat seals" were minimal. I cracked out this Captain America for my Run. Here is the Label and the very minimal damaged occurred when I removed it. Little to none.  Easily Trimmed of retouched  I would like to see CBCS implement a CBCS Embossed Heat Seal Logo right in the heart of the label. Maybe it's never going to be foolproof as some have stated. But it SURELY would be more of a detourant than the ridiculous tiny little heat tabs,  I REALLY want CBCS to succeed and I know the board members here do to. But this board only represent a tiny tiny TINY fraction of collectors and hobby enthusiasts. In order for CBCS to capture a larger share of the Market they will most certainly need to gain the trust and confidence of a MUCH larger portion of the collecting community. THAT will most certainly be a much bigger challenge with this issue hanging over them. Until they step up and put out a hobby leading secure slab that's able to gain my confidence beyond all their competitors, There's really no reason to use them over the recognizable brand name. |
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| Post 127 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Having now seen the video it would seem that aside from the heat seals the only way to determine if a book had been tampered with would be to remove the top of the case and to look for the types of cuts that the top would obscure while in place. I can just see the look the faces of the guys at Metropolis when someone walks up to them at NYCC asking to take the the case of a five hundred thousand dollar book. With that said I am now very interested in knowing what there is to know about heat seals. How many heat seals should a slab have in place? Where are they located? What does a heat seal look like when no damage has taken place? |
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| Post 128 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, right now even PGX is doing this "half measure" 100% better than CBCS. The heat seals on PGX labels run the whole height of the labels. | ||
| Post 129 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos now instead of not? | ||
| Post 130 • IP flag post | ||
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