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ebay buyer accuses me of switching labels!4188

COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
@kaptainmyke you squish them too hard for too long, add too much moisture and ripple the pages, squish it with the staples in the wrong place and effectively create tears, use bad materials to clean it and inadvertently remove comic ink, etc. Lots of ways to damage comics in the pressing process. Mine had ink removal issues and moisture rippling.


Did not know it was that bad, figured he got better over the last few years. I remember reviewing a few books for someone at Mega-Con a few years ago and saw a GS X-Men #1 that looked "floppy" and had a spine that you could shave with. The guy said "Oh, don't worry about that one, it was pressed already". Found out it was PC's work after the fact. Looks like it was done with a 10 ton hydraulic press.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Jesus. I'll just be quiet so I don't get suspended again.
Post 277 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Here's the deal. If I accept this return then I will not be submitting anymore comics for grading with CBCS until I know for sure the scoring on the sides of the cases has been removed or fixed. Also, until this switching labels concern is fixed as well.

Good bye CBCS. Nice knowing ya.
Post 278 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 279 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Die-hard fans are dropping like flies.

WHO'S AT THE HELM??
Post 280 IP   flag post


Collector Waddly private msg quote post Address this user
He's not going to like that email at all.
Post 281 IP   flag post
Collector moodswing private msg quote post Address this user
Probably not smart going with that route. Ebay will side with the buyer. Buyer might actually do something to the comic now and Ebay will still refund him the entire amount.
Post 282 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Oh well, after 12 G.D. pages on this forum, not one single response from a CBCS representative. They made their bed, now they are going to have to lie in it.
Post 283 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user




I just want to close with this: I bitched about this scoring problem last year. Now with label swap scares this in conjunction with the former has now literally came back to bite me in the butt.

Called it. Told you. I told CBCS. I told you all. Nobody is going to trust these slabs at this point. And now buyers are concerned.

Whatever.


Those who watch Rick and Morty know what this image means. CBCS is Rick in this instance. And we are all Morty who just got drunk dialed into a massive party all for Noob Noob, a character only a drunken stupor would forget about entirely.
Post 284 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Die-hard fans are dropping like flies.

WHO'S AT THE HELM??
+1
Post 285 IP   flag post
Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
I just got off the phone with CBCS on the subject. And I'll grind it down to what you guys wanted to know, hear, etc. But this is all I got:

- The white markings on the side of the cases are production related. This is from the way they currently produce the shells, and it sounds like they are looking for a solution on this issue.

- The casings are not sealed on the sides for the same reasons Collectible Grading Authority does not have their products be 100% sealed: To prevent generated gasses from deteriorating the product.

- Both people I have talked to HAVE stated that they are going to issue a statement on this issue. They, at this point of time, do not have the statement and solution on hand.

Also... Sorry for not trying to do this sooner, kaptainmyke and company. I feel like if I did, you guys would be more relaxed with the issue.
Post 286 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Well unless an actual time machine is invented and available for public use, there's nothing that can be done at the moment. I have too many books out with Trinity and out in the wild to have this make me lose sleep over it. Time to move forward and forward is what I must do. The ebay buyer is not even the issue. He's nothing to me. The issue at hand is the faith of buyers in a resellers market. Period.
Post 287 IP   flag post
Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
@Instant_Subtitles what we mind don't matter; the more hats the better 🍺


Thanks. I wanted to reply with a harsher tone, but felt that I would have been seen as being no better than how he was acting. Plus, his need to have 25,000+ comics reminded me of this one "Collection Intervention". Including the Golden Apple portion of that episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
I love when people say "I'm really trying not to be rude" or something similar, and then they are. Well played.


I know, right? It gave me that same feeling when I met one of MArvel's editors at Anime Expo and she told me how both she and others there absolutely hated the decision to do 'Brand New Day'.
Post 288 IP   flag post
Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
@kaptainmyke It sounds nice to have that, but I think you just need to take a break. Just take the time reassessing the situation, figure out how you could have handled each moment differently, and plan out a strategy from what you have concluded.

Because in the end, your business is your product. And you are the advertisement committee. So what you should now is to not worry about this and focus on building and promoting a better product. Even if it means reducing the price by $10 so they can choose to have it re-slabbed.

All the best.
Post 289 IP   flag post
Collector D84 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke



Sorry to say this, but you come across way too threatening in this message. If I received that, it would seem to me that you would get the book back, say I damaged it, and keep my money, no matter what.

I KNOW THIS IS NOT HOW YOU ARE, BUT THE WORDING WOULD HAVE ME WORRIED.

If I were the customer, I'd be working on alternate plans in case you tried to screw me.
Post 290 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Here's the deal. If I accept this return then I will not be submitting anymore comics for grading with CBCS until I know for sure the scoring on the sides of the cases has been removed or fixed. Also, until this switching labels concern is fixed as well.

Good bye CBCS. Nice knowing ya.


Just a bit of perspective here.

The outer plastic shell is injection molded plastic. It will have an injection point.

A comic book slab is a fairly large plastic part, as molded parts go. It is going to have a fairly large injection point. Or more than one injection point. That's because the hot, molten plastic is being injected into a steel block that is the mold - which has a water jacket to keep the mold at a much lower temperature. If the plastic part is fairly large, you have to have a large injection site or multiple sites to get the plastic to fill the mold before it starts cooling down and hardening. Not enough sites or a big enough site you can't get enough plastic in fast enough to fill the mold.

The injection point is always going to look rougher. The bigger the injection point, the more noticeable it will be.

EVERY SINGLE GRADING COMPANIES SLABS HAVE INJECTION SITES that are rougher in appearance than the rest of the slab. See pictures

EVERY SINGLE GRADING COMPANIES SLABS CAN HAVE THE LABELS SWAPPED OUT. But it is rare.

A stack of Generation 1 and Generation 2 CGC slabs. They all have a rough looking area where the injection of plastic took place.

These are molded plastic parts....Not precision hand tooled blocks of stainless steel. A lot of qualities are taken into account - including costs. An imperfection in appearance on the edge of the case is a fair trade off.

This isn't a case problem. It's a buyer problem. This discussion has occurred over and over again at the forums across the street about THEIR slabs.

Gen 1



Gen 2
Post 291 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@shrewbeer Is going back to the older slabs an option for CBCS or was there a problem with those as well?

There are no old CBCS slabs, CBCS is still on generation one. They made a change in the plastic formula early on to fix a problem with the plastic, but they didn't change their molds.

It wasn't a change in the formula. The manufacturer user recycled plastics instead of virgin material. It caused the outer shells to become brittle and break. Once the defective plastics were replaced, the outer shells were back up to snuff.



Still not exactly right - but much closer

It was the INNER holder that was weak and breaking as a result of using some recycled plastic in the manufacturing.
Post 292 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
This thread is sure bringing up more questions then any answers being supplied.

The one question I want to know an answer to is who is the head man?
Post 293 IP   flag post
Collector rckstr1253 private msg quote post Address this user
I have no horse in this race and have kept quiet for weeks until cbcs gave us an update, but after 3 weeks or so and not a peep from a representative is a little concerning for me as i was getting books together for my first submission. I guess ill have to wait and see, but really, an update should of been made immediately. Every company has flaws or issues that arise, but how you handle them is what matters. Its always better to come out and speak about it right away than to disappear for weeks with no word. With that said, i hope this gets straighten out but, after what cgc did with the new slab fiasco, and how they handled it, cbcs seems to be taking the same approach. NOT GOOD!
Post 294 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@IronMan unfortunately there is a difference in the injection mold site between the companies. CBCS sides kind of do look like they were pried with a screwdriver, and one cannot expect that all buyers will be informed

That said, kap's buyer was a COMPLETE moron.
Post 295 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@shrewbeer Is going back to the older slabs an option for CBCS or was there a problem with those as well?

There are no old CBCS slabs, CBCS is still on generation one. They made a change in the plastic formula early on to fix a problem with the plastic, but they didn't change their molds.

It wasn't a change in the formula. The manufacturer user recycled plastics instead of virgin material. It caused the outer shells to become brittle and break. Once the defective plastics were replaced, the outer shells were back up to snuff.



Still not exactly right - but much closer

It was the INNER holder that was weak and breaking as a result of using some recycled plastic in the manufacturing.

Potato, patahto, plastics, plastiques. It was crappy material that caused stuff to break.

The main point being CBCS responded quickly and clearly. This go around, while possibly not quite as dire a situation, the response has been, well... lackluster.
Post 296 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by D84
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke



Sorry to say this, but you come across way too threatening in this message. If I received that, it would seem to me that you would get the book back, say I damaged it, and keep my money, no matter what.

I KNOW THIS IS NOT HOW YOU ARE, BUT THE WORDING WOULD HAVE ME WORRIED.

If I were the customer, I'd be working on alternate plans in case you tried to screw me.


I appreciate your opinion and point of view. But, as long as the book is received and he did not try to open it to see if I tampered it, then all is good and I will resell back on ebay. He's been threatening me and with negative feedback as well, which is against ebay policy. His claims are all unfounded. I was just trying to be as blunt as possible on the situation because he has caused a disruption in everything and also caused a ripple effect on this forum and its business practices.
Post 297 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Here's the deal. If I accept this return then I will not be submitting anymore comics for grading with CBCS until I know for sure the scoring on the sides of the cases has been removed or fixed. Also, until this switching labels concern is fixed as well.

Good bye CBCS. Nice knowing ya.


Just a bit of perspective here.

The outer plastic shell is injection molded plastic. It will have an injection point.

A comic book slab is a fairly large plastic part, as molded parts go. It is going to have a fairly large injection point. Or more than one injection point. That's because the hot, molten plastic is being injected into a steel block that is the mold - which has a water jacket to keep the mold at a much lower temperature. If the plastic part is fairly large, you have to have a large injection site or multiple sites to get the plastic to fill the mold before it starts cooling down and hardening. Not enough sites or a big enough site you can't get enough plastic in fast enough to fill the mold.

The injection point is always going to look rougher. The bigger the injection point, the more noticeable it will be.

EVERY SINGLE GRADING COMPANIES SLABS HAVE INJECTION SITES that are rougher in appearance than the rest of the slab. See pictures

EVERY SINGLE GRADING COMPANIES SLABS CAN HAVE THE LABELS SWAPPED OUT. But it is rare.

A stack of Generation 1 and Generation 2 CGC slabs. They all have a rough looking area where the injection of plastic took place.

These are molded plastic parts....Not precision hand tooled blocks of stainless steel. A lot of qualities are taken into account - including costs. An imperfection in appearance on the edge of the case is a fair trade off.

This isn't a case problem. It's a buyer problem. This discussion has occurred over and over again at the forums across the street about THEIR slabs.

Gen 1



Gen 2


So what you are saying is we have unknowing buyers who are uninformed on the entire process of grading?
Post 298 IP   flag post
Collector Krazywan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
Couldn't CBCS just polish down the rough edge some. Kap Mike, I hope your issue gets resolved properly. I too am surprised that we are not getting any feed back from CBCS. I know that keeping up to date with your customers is imperative. Like @CFP_Comics mentioned, sometimes a response of any kind is better than no response.
Yes CBCS can polish down the sides. I am a machinist,fabricator,finisher by trade. I build aircraft parts I deal with all types of materials aluminum, stainless steels, carbon steels, plastics, and acrylics. Those slabs can be polished down with an angle grinder and a standard abrasives medium softstone, you could remove enough material to make it look smooth. The problem that you would run into by doing that is cloudiness in the polished area, but hey I think that a bit of cloudiness is better than having score mark on the case. CBCS, I live about 20 mins up US 19 from you and I'm available on Fridays to come show you how this can be achieved. All you need is an experienced finisher one maybe two days a week to do a weeks supply.
Post 299 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
@IronMan unfortunately there is a difference in the injection mold site between the companies. CBCS sides kind of do look like they were pried with a screwdriver, and one cannot expect that all buyers will be informed

That said, kap's buyer was a COMPLETE moron.


On CGC's Gen 2 slab pictures, the second from the top has a "screwdriver taken to it look" The Gen 1 slabs imho a newbie might say all look suspicious. And yes in fact newbies have been saying that for almost two decades.

Nothing wrong with the CBCS slab here. It is the buyer that is faulty
Post 300 IP   flag post
Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rckstr1253
I have no horse in this race and have kept quiet for weeks until cbcs gave us an update, but after 3 weeks or so and not a peep from a representative is a little concerning for me as i was getting books together for my first submission. I guess ill have to wait and see, but really, an update should of been made immediately. Every company has flaws or issues that arise, but how you handle them is what matters. Its always better to come out and speak about it right away than to disappear for weeks with no word. With that said, i hope this gets straighten out but, after what cgc did with the new slab fiasco, and how they handled it, cbcs seems to be taking the same approach. NOT GOOD!


I posted about this. The response will arrive.

[ERRATA: Did not see the "thumbs up".]
Post 301 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
When I got my first CGC slabs, I thought those injection scores on the sides are places where the slab was supposed to be sealed in addition to the 4 posts. Only after reading several discussions on the CGG chat boards did I realize they are just injection ports for the molten plastic and not meant to be any kind of seal at all. The problem is, if you are uneducated on the injection molding process like I was, it would be easy to think they must serve some purpose for the slabbing of the book and not some necessary byproduct related to the manufacture of the slab parts.
No doubt some trimming at the factory already takes place to smooth these injection points down and other places where the plastic leaks out.
Also, it's obvious some don't understand the slab is not supposed to be sealed tight at the sides as to allow the slab to breath. Once again, like I was, some think the slab has been tampered with just because the sides can be pulled apart a little bit.
It's really too bad this lack of knowledge and understanding is causing such a problem between (honest) buyers and sellers and/or scammers are trying to use it to gain leverage for their scam.
Post 302 IP   flag post
Collector Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Die-hard fans are dropping like flies.

WHO'S AT THE HELM??


Yeah, kind of depressing to watch. I personally don't have a dog in this fight right now, but the silence is a bit deafening. If they are losing die-hard forum members, I can only assume that other collectors are/will be jumping too.
Post 303 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Instant_Subtitles Zero information learned on your phone call was new information. Every single thing you repeated was something every one of us already knew, and for a long time. But thanks for the effort.
Post 304 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@Themaxx35 he just needs his friday night scotch and he will calm down and be back
Post 305 IP   flag post
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