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Artist signature exceptions?4168

COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector rtdcomics private msg quote post Address this user
@drchaos dont get me wrong I am a huge fan and supporter of CBCS, Mark and all the guys here.

The point I made about getting all the info on the website is simply a process improvement one and not intended as a put down of the company. Part of my job role in employment has always been to look at the end user process and how this can be improved in whatever industry and I feel that the info on the CBCS website is far more user friendly than FB. I'd stand by that opinion. The fact that Mark is incredibly busy is one I completely understand and we have spoken several times regarding this. I dont push him for answers, waiting patiently for a response, and I always feel bad having to keep going back with new questions as I know his time is precious.

My AW form is stored on the PC signed by Mark, with my year date already on (by Mark) and with everything initialed. Every show I print a copy off and submit this with my books. This hasnt been flagged as incorrect to me but, as mentioned, this is different to other AW's I have met or spoken to which creates a grey area.

We can all openly discuss visible improvements to a system without that meaning we have problems with the company or its employees. Thats how good companies grow and develop, through open and honest conversation.

As a witness I do agree that the buck stops with us! I do my best to understand the system/process and to keep on top of it. I obviously see the benefits and rewards to being an AW hence the reason I signed up. in recent months I have avoided using CGC unless its tied to an artist/writer, CBCS would always be my first choice and im always happy to promote that to anyone i speak to.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
I appreciate ALL of the AWs coming forward here and commenting!! I think it is great that everyone brings their viewpoint and ideas!! I was thinking about this as I was unable to get to sleep tonight. I see one major benefit to having an official AW page on facebook as opposed to a separate website of connected to the CBCS website. That factor is a simple one - Mark can control the content, keep the guidelines up to date, update when artists start to require separate approval or a private signing and anything else that needs to be done.

I'm sure all of you know how often the "rules of the game" change concerning signatures. Just this year, we have seen artists go from free signatures and open to witnesses to charging for witnesses and even being grading company specific. We have seen facilitators suddenly leave CBCS and creating a void for some signing opportunities. We have seen other facilitators working with artists and creators and bringing NEW opportunities for signature and sketches. If Mark had to relay all this info to a webmaster and wait on them to update, the information might be weeks old and opportunities might be missed or mistakes made. And that's IF the webmaster understands what Mark is saying and correctly types it in.

I agree there is room for improvement, I'm just not sold that a new website should be created or that it should be tied to the CBCS website, A lot of the information is time sensitive.

I DO think that a list of artists and creators who need special considerations would be a great idea. Maybe a flier could be created for cons or a pdf file that could be printed out on demand would work. I'm just throwing this out there for everyones consideration.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector Hanginglimbs private msg quote post Address this user
This also begs the question: If the creators/handlers/management are insisting on these new policies, why don't they seem to be aware of it? At least in Boston, I did not get any offers to initial/sign forms from Hughes, Romita, or Moore (or their people), despite communicating my intention to get the book witnessed and graded, paying their asking price, and having prepped books.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector Revelations private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O the best thing to do is to get a normal forum setup instead of what we have now. You could have an entire subforum dedicated to AW stuff. Mark could just pop in and update the pinned post and tell people if they need to contact him, use Facebook.

This forum is easily found on the website since it's linked in the menu and it wouldn't require any special html knowledge to make updates. The problem is that it doesn't have a traditional forum look and it makes finding information extremely difficult.

For now though, why not take the initiative as the forum admin to copy Mark's post on FB and paste it to a pinned post on this current forum? Because God only knows if we'll ever see a real forum implemented.
Post 30 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
After reading this thread, some of the ways signatures are "witnessed", and all the confusion surrounding the AW system maybe CBCS needs to take a minute and write up what the rules of the system are on something that is published besides a Facebook page. This thread really is disconcerting to read.
Post 31 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelations
@Jesse_O the best thing to do is to get a normal forum setup instead of what we have now. You could have an entire subforum dedicated to AW stuff. Mark could just pop in and update the pinned post and tell people if they need to contact him, use Facebook.

This forum is easily found on the website since it's linked in the menu and it wouldn't require any special html knowledge to make updates. The problem is that it doesn't have a traditional forum look and it makes finding information extremely difficult.

For now though, why not take the initiative as the forum admin to copy Mark's post on FB and paste it to a pinned post on this current forum? Because God only knows if we'll ever see a real forum implemented.


A real forum format would be awesome!! I totally agree with you there!!

I thought about doing a sticky (pinned) thread with all the facebook info here, just as you suggested. There is a problem with that though. If and when there are changes, either I'd have to catch it or Mark would have to notify me. I'm not saying that it is an impossibility, but it does leave more room for error. There have been situations where people have acted on information that they got here and it was wrong. Those have all been minor so far, but it has happened and will continue to happen. People misunderstand or miscommunicate information all the time. It's going to happen. The key is to minimize the opportunity for misunderstandings. I'll get in touch with Mark and get his opinion. It may happen yet.
Post 32 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanginglimbs
This also begs the question: If the creators/handlers/management are insisting on these new policies, why don't they seem to be aware of it? At least in Boston, I did not get any offers to initial/sign forms from Hughes, Romita, or Moore (or their people), despite communicating my intention to get the book witnessed and graded, paying their asking price, and having prepped books.


It is a money grab. The creators and their handlers want to add a premium for their signatures on the graded books. They do not care if your books are properly witnessed. Good luck on follow up or customer service for the added fees.
Post 33 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?


I should hope not. I already had a dealer account set up before I became an authorized witness.
Post 34 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?


I'm thinking that if you have books signed from years ago and you witnessed being signed what is to stop a person from turning them in with other "witnessed" books at a show where I am my own witness? Things could get sketchy pretty quick.
Post 35 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?


I'm thinking that if you have books signed from years ago and you witnessed being signed what is to stop a person from turning them in with other "witnessed" books at a show where I am my own witness? Things could get sketchy pretty quick.


This is the reason that it is important to screen authorized witnesses. Dealers with hundreds of valuable gold and silver age (no-signature books) have much more to lose by trying to scam a few dollars by misrepresenting the details of a signature on one book.

Artist would need to be at the show in question. Also, sometimes the artist includes the year with the signature. With enough books submitted it is pretty easy for a dishonest person to make a mistake.
Post 36 IP   flag post
Collector ONLINE_209 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?


I'm thinking that if you have books signed from years ago and you witnessed being signed what is to stop a person from turning them in with other "witnessed" books at a show where I am my own witness? Things could get sketchy pretty quick.
i don't think it would work it wouldn't be to hard to look into to see if said artist was at said event of when you are claiming the artist was there and signed your book and to witness your own books you have to be pre approved for each specific event
Post 37 IP   flag post
Collector ONLINE_209 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
OP just got let down by a failure of the CBCS Booth staff. I would be miffed too. He asked for a witness and they told him to be his own witness? What the hell?
if a CBCS booth was there why would you need to witness your own books or am i missing something
Post 38 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@ONLINE_209 It seems the OP was under the mis-impression that Desert Wind was witnessing the signature but did not bring anyone from Desert Wind to the CBCS booth.

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.
Post 39 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I still don't understand why this forum isn't running on a real piece of forum software yet? Do you guys need a new webmaster? Can I volunteer? Sheesh.
Post 40 IP   flag post
Collector Hanginglimbs private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@ONLINE_209 It seems the OP was under the mis-impression that Desert Wind was witnessing the signature but did not bring anyone from Desert Wind to the CBCS booth.

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.


No. The CBCS booth told me that because I had like 10 artists in my list and 20 books that they would just make me a witness instead of me coming back to them over and over to grab a witness. So I filled out a form, got my sigs over a couple of days and returned to drop off the books. There was no mention of special instructions for certain artists. When I submitted books I was told that Stan Lee (obviously, I did his whole Excelsior CGC witnessing because I was aware of that) and Adam Hughes were the only ones who require special instructions (only the guy with Adam Hughes could witness). We cleared that up, but it looks like Romita and Moore also have special instructions which I was not aware of.

When I paid for romitas sig, I asked if it was ok that I get it witnessed via cbcs even though they had desert winds there for cgc. They said yes, but nothing more about special instructions.

Really hoping CBCS does me right on this one, as I'm losing out on a lot of money and the value of my comic books if they don't.
Post 41 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I still don't understand why this forum isn't running on a real piece of forum software yet? Do you guys need a new webmaster? Can I volunteer? Sheesh.


It is. Ninja post isn't cheap either, but seems to be fully customizable. I think its more money to add sub-forums though. This forum is not serviced by the same "IT" guy that does the cbcs site
Post 42 IP   flag post
Collector ONLINE_209 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@ONLINE_209 It seems the OP was under the mis-impression that Desert Wind was witnessing the signature but did not bring anyone from Desert Wind to the CBCS booth.

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanginglimbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@ONLINE_209 It seems the OP was under the mis-impression that Desert Wind was witnessing the signature but did not bring anyone from Desert Wind to the CBCS booth.

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.


No. The CBCS booth told me that because I had like 10 artists in my list and 20 books that they would just make me a witness instead of me coming back to them over and over to grab a witness. So I filled out a form, got my sigs over a couple of days and returned to drop off the books. There was no mention of special instructions for certain artists. When I submitted books I was told that Stan Lee (obviously, I did his whole Excelsior CGC witnessing because I was aware of that) and Adam Hughes were the only ones who require special instructions (only the guy with Adam Hughes could witness). We cleared that up, but it looks like Romita and Moore also have special instructions which I was not aware of.

When I paid for romitas sig, I asked if it was ok that I get it witnessed via cbcs even though they had desert winds there for cgc. They said yes, but nothing more about special instructions.

Really hoping CBCS does me right on this one, as I'm losing out on a lot of money and the value of my comic books if they don't.
what i don't get is i was told you had to send in some paperwork to Mark Roman if he ok's it then you can witness for your own books i am surprised they were going to let you self witness signatures before the paperwork was okayed with his signature
Post 43 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@ONLINE_209 It seems the OP was under the mis-impression that Desert Wind was witnessing the signature but did not bring anyone from Desert Wind to the CBCS booth.

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.


That isn't true. It has been covered here before by CBCS employees. Books can be dropped off and collected later. The witness never has to see them signed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONLINE_209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?


I'm thinking that if you have books signed from years ago and you witnessed being signed what is to stop a person from turning them in with other "witnessed" books at a show where I am my own witness? Things could get sketchy pretty quick.
i don't think it would work it wouldn't be to hard to look into to see if said artist was at said event of when you are claiming the artist was there and signed your book and to witness your own books you have to be pre approved for each specific event


At the bigger shows there are tons of artist in attendance. It would be simple for someone who is bent to do it if they are a "witness" to their own books being signed.
Post 44 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanginglimbs
The CBCS told me that because I had like 10 artists in my list and 20 books that they would just make me a witness instead of me coming back to them over and over to grab a witness. So I filled out a form, got my sigs over a couple of days and returned to drop off the books


I honestly thought people had to be vetted in some way to be an AW. This really doesn't make sense. How is this more secure or valid than a simple COA from a dealer? By this logic, anyone could show up to a show, fill out some paperwork at the CBCS booth, forge a $100 signature 500X, save themselves $50,000 in fees and flip the books for profit.

There must be more to this. It cannot be that easy.

OR, it IS that easy, and these artists/creators have decided to use a "single" witness (in the OP's case why he must get those initials), not because of exclusivity contracts but simply because of obvious forgery concerns in fast-n-loose AW programs.


ok my head hurts now
Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector ONLINE_209 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanginglimbs
The CBCS told me that because I had like 10 artists in my list and 20 books that they would just make me a witness instead of me coming back to them over and over to grab a witness. So I filled out a form, got my sigs over a couple of days and returned to drop off the books


I honestly thought people had to be vetted in some way to be an AW. This really doesn't make sense. How is this more secure or valid than a simple COA from a dealer? By this logic, anyone could show up to a show, fill out some paperwork at the CBCS booth, forge a $100 signature 500X, save themselves $50,000 in fees and flip the books for profit.

There must be more to this. It cannot be that easy.

OR, it IS that easy, and these artists/creators have decided to use a "single" witness (in the OP's case why he must get those initials), because of obvious forgery concerns in fast-n-loose AW programs.


ok my head hurts now
as far as i know you can't fill out the paperwork at the cons like that as you are supposed to be pre-approved before each event and it is not as simple just saying you want to be an AW for an event
Post 46 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos

The concept that the book can not leave the sight of the witness may not have been fully understood either.


That isn't true. It has been covered here before by CBCS employees. Books can be dropped off and collected later. The witness never has to see them signed.


I meant that the books can not leave the signt of the witness AFTER they are signed. Until the book has been signed there is nothing to witness. Afterwards, the artist and or the witness are the only ones that need to be looking at the book but if neither is looking at the book it needs to be out of bounds until CBCS has it.
Post 47 IP   flag post
Collector Hanginglimbs private msg quote post Address this user
Perhaps my case was an anomaly. I will say that the person I dealt the most with seemed new to CBCS (and comics in general), but she was frequently confirming with another employee. What a sandwich.
Post 48 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@Hanginglimbs Your case is why trust should be a four letter word. Laziness is no reason to hand out a AW designation.
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector Gabriel85301 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Are you guys saying that the only qualification to being an AW is breathing? Just show up to a show, and AW your own stuff with just a form?



my situation was that I had 40+ books and they only had two witnesses available on Saturday. I asked the individual (whom I won't name) in what manner should I handle getting a witness at times for all these books.. did the paperwork, got half of them signed on Saturday, then the other half on Sunday. The CBCS witness calvary had arrived for the Sunday show, the con closed at 5pm, I was able to sit down at 4:30pm with now an ever growing table of witnesses and did the white-yellow-pink paperwork and finish at 4:57pm

I'm taking 80+ books to submit this time around. :/
Post 50 IP   flag post
Collector Gabriel85301 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanginglimbs
The CBCS told me that because I had like 10 artists in my list and 20 books that they would just make me a witness instead of me coming back to them over and over to grab a witness. So I filled out a form, got my sigs over a couple of days and returned to drop off the books


I honestly thought people had to be vetted in some way to be an AW. This really doesn't make sense. How is this more secure or valid than a simple COA from a dealer? By this logic, anyone could show up to a show, fill out some paperwork at the CBCS booth, forge a $100 signature 500X, save themselves $50,000 in fees and flip the books for profit.

ok my head hurts now


I included my receipts about paying for the signature behind the board of the comic so it is never called in to question. Did it for some Celebs at FanFest even though I had a CBCS AW present.
Post 51 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@Gabriel85301 to be clear, I'm not calling into question your integrity. You seem like a good dude.

I just had no idea it was that easy to be vetted for AW

*although the more I read into it, the more it seems that the big names all have the secondary initials needed in addition to the regular AW to prevent forgery and ensure the sig was paid for
Post 52 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@Gabriel85301 I get that they were short handed but that is not a good reason to authorize someone as an AW just because they have a lot of books. If anything the profit incentive / greed is the last reason for it.

As Shrewbeer said, this is not saying anything negative about you but someone clearly dropped the ball by not attempting to properly vet you before handing out that kind of responsibility.
Post 53 IP   flag post
Collector Hanginglimbs private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
@Gabriel85301 to be clear, I'm not calling into question your integrity. You seem like a good dude.

I just had no idea it was that easy to be vetted for AW

*although the more I read into it, the more it seems that the big names all have the secondary initials needed in addition to the regular AW to prevent forgery and ensure the sig was paid for


So basically, they provide a certificate of authenticity.
Post 54 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
CGC spends a lot of time and money getting witnesses for shows to run around and verify the authenticity of signatures. CBCS has a different model where responsible individuals are authorized to witness signatures for themselves saving time and money for both parties.

The key to this new model is the integrity of the people authorized as witnesses. If AWs are not properly vetted the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

Someone please tell me that this problem has been resolved.
Post 55 IP   flag post
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