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A Moment of Clarity399

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Collector 55	55 nadabig private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	They were childish at best. I have to say this spat thing whatever it is, it's doing nothing for anyone.
	8 years ago	Post 126 • IP flag post

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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by comeaux

Well to be honest Roy, nothing in my post was directed at you at all. In fact since I’ve paid more attention to your posts at CGC forum, I’ve gained a lot of respect for you.

Thanks!

I didn't take any offense at what you posted or notify the mods. I think it was removed because of the nature of some of the words and slang you used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by comeaux

I do have a problem with people continuously stating that CBCS is loose when in fact there have been assertions from reputable members who claim just the opposite as they crack out their books and have found CGC to be VERY inconsistent while CBCS is more consistent.

I'd be curious to know who those reputable members are. I'm considered a pretty solid grader and I see a lot of books every year.

I agree that CGC is inconsistent. I have books that I have resubmitted that have recently gone down in grade.

8 years ago

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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PovRow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

"Team derail" was a commonly used term about a decade ago when pressing became the new hot button.

OK - last word to you on these boards. I said pressing, alcohol and sports were used to derail. You, just like on the CGC boards, pick and choose, ignore the rest and spin new arguments as if your "opponent" had said them.

That's one perspective, certainly.

Here's another: I make reasonable, rational arguments to which you have no response, and hide behind that by stating that I "pick and choose, ignore the rest" (no matter how relevant OR NOT the "picked and chosen" statements actually are...relevance isn't relevant to you), and that I "spin new arguments" despite your inability to clearly, rationally, dispassionately demonstrate that, using actual evidence, in any way.

Easy to accuse...not so easy to prove. And that's what you've done for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PovRow
So from this point on regardless of what you say to me you will not get a response. here.

If what I say offends you so deeply, and it clearly does, it's a very good thing for you to not respond to anything I say. Let's hope you can stick to it...?

No need for spoiler tags when you're not a target of moderation.

8 years ago

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

But, no concrete examples of your "pressing as thread derailing theory", then?

"Team derail" was a commonly used term about a decade ago when pressing became the new hot button.

Some who were 'pro pressing' would regularly chime into pressing threads and 'derail' them using humor and other distractions and would take away from the actual discussion at the time.

It was well known and visible to anyone there at the time.

What Pov says has value. People with vested interests will weigh in on threads that contradict those interests and attempt to either stop them or curtail them.

And now that we've all derailed this thread.....

Ok, but that was over a decade ago, and that hasn't happened much since, because the pressing issue is relatively settled. Bringing up events that happened a decade ago, as if they're still a problem...is that realistic? Obviously, since I like to wander in conversations, I'm relatively sensitive to people complaining...and, thus, threatening my continued presence...just for being "off-topic." Really, if that's the worst offense someone makes, that's hardly worth getting upset about.

Yes, people try to derail. No doubt. But there's an easy solution to people trying to derail: you, the individual, just stay on-topic and don't get involved in the side chatter. Trying to get others to conform to what I think is or is not the "right way" to post is a surefire way of developing conflict.

And yes, there IS a difference between just being "off-topic", and purposely trying to divert a topic, but again, it's easily resolved by simply staying on-topic. Complaining about others being off-topic...as we are doing here...is just as effective at derailing a thread as the other derailers.

And, of course, there's the whole issue of perspective. What may appear to you to be one thing may not, in fact, be that thing at all.

Without wanting to derail this thread again,

The decade ago example was just one example.
It happens on various topics.
It still happens.

Sure, but the degree of derailing is markedly less now than it was. Do you not agree?

Also...are you willing to admit that what we see and perceive isn't necessarily what is...?

I am. Happens all the time, despite a concerted effort not to. And, if those making a concerted effort to avoid personal perspective misjudgments make them, how more easily those who make little to no effort...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageComics

Human nature doesn't change, just the situation.

Pov is a pretty perceptive dude with a wide range of perspective from what I know about him after posting 80,000 posts over 12+ years on the CGC chat forum.

Pov, just like you or me, needs no one to defend him. He's well capable...as you know...of stating his perspective, regardless of the legitimacy of that perspective.

Pov IS a pretty perceptive dude...but that certainly doesn't make him immune to bad judgments, bad arguments, and bad decisions, especially when those are based on emotional responses.

8 years ago

Collector 568	568 PovRow private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Just relinking Michael's post. It is certainly worth re-re-reading! https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/399/page/1/a-moment-of-clarity/
	8 years ago	Post 130 • IP flag post

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I don't understand why we're still discussing this but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Sure, but the degree of derailing is markedly less now than it was. Do you not agree?

I don't know. That might be your perception. Depends in the thread.

Derailing threads about pressing might be down markedly because pressing is more readily accepted and there are less people trying to stop the discussion but in any topic where there is dissent and big money involved, you still have heavily invested parties on either side that want the topic to go in their particular direction, so heated topics still get derailed. I find it happens a lot in Modern and speculation threads lately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Also...are you willing to admit that what we see and perceive isn't necessarily what is...?

Sure. I think POV is willing to admit that too as well as you.

8 years ago

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageComics
I don't understand why we're still discussing this but...

Because that's how conversations work.

Someone says something, someone else replies, then you have a dialogue.

I don't understand why people say "I don't understand why we're still discussing this", as if there's some sort of limit to discussion. What does it matter if the subject is picked up an hour, a day, a week, or a year later? If someone doesn't want to continue discussing something, the choice is simple: stop discussing it.

Seems pretty straightforward to me. And yet, all sorts of people get offended to varying degrees about that. It's baffling. It's a message board after all...isn't discussion kind of the entire point?

And I'm certainly not trying to be snide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VintageComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

Sure, but the degree of derailing is markedly less now than it was. Do you not agree?

I don't know. That might be your perception. Depends in the thread.

Derailing threads about pressing might be down markedly because pressing is more readily accepted and there are less people trying to stop the discussion but in any topic where there is dissent and big money involved, you still have heavily invested parties on either side that want the topic to go in their particular direction, so heated topics still get derailed. I find it happens a lot in Modern and speculation threads lately.

A fact I know intimately, to the point where my very presence over on the CGC board hangs by a thread, and why? Because there are people who cannot tolerate others telling them that the "rare, scarce, ULTRA DESIRABLE UNIQUE collectible!!!!" is none of those things, and people ought to be careful with their money.

But that doesn't dissuade me from saying that people ought to be careful with their money, and they should understand just what it is they're buying with eyes wide open. And the only thing preventing me from pointing it out each and every time someone tries to pump and dump their latest "HOT COMIC!!!!" is that the moderation only listens to the quantity of complaints, not the quality...a fact you, yourself, have pointed out.

And, of course, there are plenty of other voices now picking up that slack.

In the old days, such blatant hucksterism wouldn't have been tolerated by the board members themselves. That's a disappointing change.

In any event, my point is that a thread can't really be derailed if the people interested in the topic make an effort to stick to that topic. Yes, it's annoying to scroll through endless memes and whatnot, but that's the price we pay for having a degree of freedom to post. Iron-fisted control does nothing for anybody. If I expect to be able to say what I'M interested in saying, I have to respect the ability of others to do so, too, no matter what my opinion of the content thereof.

8 years ago

Collector 184	184 VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@DocBrown OK, I just realized where I know that Avatar from. We are talking about two different things. POV and I are specifically talking about an obvious attempt to derail from a conversation where people have ulterior motives. You are talking about a thread that organically moves from the OP's point. At least that's what I think I'm reading.
	8 years ago	Post 133 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by VintageComics @DocBrown OK, I just realized where I know that Avatar from. We are talking about two different things. POV and I are specifically talking about an obvious attempt to derail from a conversation where people have ulterior motives. You are talking about a thread that organically moves from the OP's point. At least that's what I think I'm reading. No, we're not talking about two different things. We're talking about purposely derailing, but also having side conversations about related subjects at the same time. Much like real life, we can handle multiple shades, aspects, and facets of an idea and still be talking about that idea. We're BOTH talking about purposely derailing by those with an agenda, which LED TO the side topic of organic derailing, but which, with my last post, moved back to purposely derailing. And, whether it's organic derailing OR purposeful derailing, either one can be avoided by simply sticking to the subject and ignoring the "side chatter." We're capable of having multi-faceted conversations, and I'm not going to insult your intelligence by "dumbing down" my posts. I respect you more than that. Did you not know I was me?
	8 years ago	Post 134 • IP flag post

Collector 184	184 VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Did you not know I was me? Nope. Not until my last post when it struck me that I knew your avatar.
	8 years ago	Post 135 • IP flag post

Collector 28	28 comicopolis private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Wow, a thread with an echo. Just need some Bunnymen then.
	8 years ago	Post 136 • IP flag post

Collector 4	4 John_R private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by comicopolis Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Wow, a thread with an echo. Just need some Bunnymen then. Bring on the dancing horses
	8 years ago	Post 137 • IP flag post

Collector 841	841 Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Mio Comicconnect appears to favour CBCS, I say as I observe that all of the books I saw from the PA Dutch find are in CBCS holders. That is no small endorsement and I imagine increased collector familiarity will inch the prices to about parallel with CGC. Key books already seem more or less there. I just re-directed a submission from CGC to CBCS on account of the new case issues. Apparently there are many doing the same. let us know how this turns out please, also if any damage to the comic/grade occured
	8 years ago	Post 138 • IP flag post

Beaten by boat oars 47.96K	47.96K Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Mio Comicconnect appears to favour CBCS, I say as I observe that all of the books I saw from the PA Dutch find are in CBCS holders. That is no small endorsement and I imagine increased collector familiarity will inch the prices to about parallel with CGC. Key books already seem more or less there. I just re-directed a submission from CGC to CBCS on account of the new case issues. Apparently there are many doing the same. I sent almost all of my new CGC slabs to CFP to be cracked & pressed before submitting to CBCS. The books were only in the holders for a few weeks, but I could already see fanning and waving on them. I'll keep the forum updated on any grade changes.
	8 years ago	Post 139 • IP flag post

Collector 10	10 Gunnz private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by VintageComics Quote: Originally Posted by comeaux Well to be honest Roy, nothing in my post was directed at you at all. In fact since I’ve paid more attention to your posts at CGC forum, I’ve gained a lot of respect for you. Thanks! I didn't take any offense at what you posted or notify the mods. I think it was removed because of the nature of some of the words and slang you used. Quote: Originally Posted by comeaux I do have a problem with people continuously stating that CBCS is loose when in fact there have been assertions from reputable members who claim just the opposite as they crack out their books and have found CGC to be VERY inconsistent while CBCS is more consistent. I'd be curious to know who those reputable members are. I'm considered a pretty solid grader and I see a lot of books every year. I agree that CGC is inconsistent. I have books that I have resubmitted that have recently gone down in grade. Probably talking about me. I grade at least 1 book a day and it's always a 9.8. it's almost always the same book... and it's already graded 9.8... but my point is... I had no point... god im bored!!!
	8 years ago	Post 140 • IP flag post

Collector 89	89 Verde private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Can some on please link the CGC post that claims CBCS violated trademarks? I'd like to read it.
	8 years ago	Post 141 • IP flag post

Collector 1.09K	1.09K Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8083142#Post8083142
	8 years ago	Post 142 • IP flag post

Collector 1	1 JeepinJesterJon private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	why not just use Emoticons? Different one for each item. thumbs up for example
	8 years ago	Post 143 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@JeepinJesterJon I think you'll need to remind us who you're replying to since it's been a while.
	8 years ago	Post 144 • IP flag post

Collector 1	1 JeepinJesterJon private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I was referring to the original comment at the start of the thread about CBCS using a Star saying it was nice to see a comic. I was just suggesting using different Emoticons like a Thumbs up for example for different things. Since CBCS is the newer of the 2 companies almost everyone knows and understands and enjoys Emoji's. Just an idea for CBCS to use for free from me to them. no other company can use it.
	8 years ago	Post 145 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@JeepinJesterJon Ah, I see, thanks. I had to go back and read the original post LOL
	8 years ago	Post 146 • IP flag post

Collector 1	1 JeepinJesterJon private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	nothing wrong with that bud it was a while ago. haha
	8 years ago	Post 147 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	You want emoticons put on the labels? You can't be serious?
	8 years ago	Post 148 • IP flag post

Collector 1	1 JeepinJesterJon private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Yes let me explain. Lets say Steve Borock himself grades your comic wouldn't it be nice to know that? so I say why not make a Steve Borock little head emoji. From a business stand point most of the people collecting comics are younger and this would appeal to them and get them in to grading and finding out who Steve is. For example the new IOS you can nearly write in all emoji which i think is silly but the younger generation is doing that at least i think. i am not that young. just can idea in its infancy. you could also have have other emoji symbolize other things first of its kind graded at CBCS. the possibilities are endless but you do not want to get ridiculous with it either. should be a limit of maybe 5 out of the gate no more maybe less.
	8 years ago	Post 149 • IP flag post

Collector 841	841 Jeremy_K private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by JeepinJesterJon Yes let me explain. Lets say Steve Borock himself grades your comic wouldn't it be nice to know that? so I say why not make a Steve Borock little head emoji. From a business stand point most of the people collecting comics are younger and this would appeal to them and get them in to grading and finding out who Steve is. For example the new IOS you can nearly write in all emoji which i think is silly but the younger generation is doing that at least i think. i am not that young. just can idea in its infancy. you could also have have other emoji symbolize other things first of its kind graded at CBCS. the possibilities are endless but you do not want to get ridiculous with it either. should be a limit of maybe 5 out of the gate no more maybe less. He gives the final look thru on all of them I think
	8 years ago	Post 150 • IP flag post

Collector 406	406 Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Michael CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case. I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books?
	7 years ago	Post 151 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kaleljll Quote: Originally Posted by Michael CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case. I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books? The "oily" look is caused by the two different plastics touching and refracting light. This alone will not damage a book. What you need to look out for are the 2nd generation CGC slabs which used mylar sheets instead of an inner well and sandwiched the comic with direct pressure between the outer shell. Those slabs will cause damage.
	7 years ago	Post 152 • IP flag post

Collector 406	406 Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego Quote: Originally Posted by Kaleljll Quote: Originally Posted by Michael CGC’s new case is a huge disaster. There are optical distortions caused by Newton effects in the plastic that make comics appear as if there is an oily substance in the case. I have purchased a couple of graded books that have this oily look. Is there any chance that these new cases are doing more harm than good to these books? The "oily" look is caused by the two different plastics touching and refracting light. This alone will not damage a book. What you need to look out for are the 2nd generation CGC slabs which used mylar sheets instead of an inner well and sandwiched the comic with direct pressure between the outer shell. Those slabs will cause damage. That doesn't sound good at all. I'm new to collecting graded camics. Would you pull them out of the CGC slabs and have them re - graded by CBCS?
	7 years ago	Post 153 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	@Kaleljll if the CGC slab is the the older generation 1 or the newest generation 3 then I wouldn't worry about it, unless you absolutely just want to get them into CBCS slabs. If it's a generation 2 slab without the inner well I would definitely send it to CBCS (keep it slabbed, they know the best way to open it without risking damage to the book). You can identify the inner well by looking at the corners of the comic, it will look like the comic is sitting inside a clear plastic tray that's inside the slab. If there is no tray, that's the slab that causes damage. Personally I would eventually reslab every CGC slab to CBCS just because I prefer CBCS. But that's just me.
	7 years ago	Post 154 • IP flag post

Collector 406	406 Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks @DarthLego. That's great info and recommendations. I didn't know that CBCS would crack the books out of the old cases too. I am just about ready to send in my first batch of comics to have them slabbed. This is really making the decision to use CBCS easier.
	7 years ago	Post 155 • IP flag post

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