CBCS Case Swap video Real?3983
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| Post 501 • IP flag post | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
Until we get answers... |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O  |
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BigRig private msg quote post Address this user | |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the answer is probably just going to be better QC. @Thanatos just got back a slab with some really nice long legs..err I mean, heat seals. Not sure if they are going to address the ease of opening the case? The website does call it a "tamper evident hard case"  |
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BigRig private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah them seals @Thanatos got are nice makes you wonder did they know of this problem and didn't say anything and try and cover it up before people noticed .... | ||
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer People here are making a much bigger deal of this than it is. CGC's "Generation 1" case was even easier to open and tamper (label/book swap) Why does this matter? Because there was not and has not been drama and fuss about such. Sales went through with confidence. Most of the record setting sales of the major keys have been done in Generation 1 CGC slabs. ALL of the Top 10. The Action Comics 1 graded 9.0 that sold for 3.2 million. The Amazing Fantasy 15 graded 9.6 that sold for 1.1 Million. The Detective 27 for 1 million. ALL of the 1968 Marvel 9.9's and the Hulk 181. Generation 1 CGC cases. All of them as easy - arguably easier to get away with tampering and fraud. I've linked to an article that lists the 10 highest prices paid for a comic books. EVERY SINGLE ONE is a CGC Gen 1 case. A couple - along with the 9.9's I mentioned -are old label. Those cases come open just asking nice and the labels fall out just turning it upside down. WHERE is the drama about all that? The outer holders were never intended to be bank vaults. They keep the comic rigid and have tamper resistant/tamper evident features. That are not perfect. In the past, videos showing that CGC cases could be easily opened and a swap of some sort performed have been done. But then disappear. Who does such videos actually help, what service do they provide - other than to would be scammers? Someone decided to just make trouble for the competition. Far too many people are buying into that. Being used. All of this only just started Thursday (I believe) and the video was up and down for very short periods of time (literally minutes once) the first couple of days. So for goodness sake. Quit bumping, quit posting no submissions until some answer. Give the staff at CBCS a chance to have meetings and talk to the people in slabbing and maybe to suppliers to decide what would be best to do and feasible. And understand this is a hypothetical problem that has been around from day 1. The biggest books in the hobby are in CGC slabs that are just as easy to tamper with as the low value CBCS book in the video. http://www.cbr.com/the-10-most-expensive-comic-books-ever-sold/ |
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Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan  |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan not sure why I'm quoted in that post but... Personally I really dont care that they are "less" secure than previously thought. Someone sells me a fake and I'll know it. There are videos of fake CGC slabs out there. Nothing in this world is bulletproof. I AM curious as to the solution here, given the information on the website and what Steve said here contradicts the current reality of a CBCS slab. Like it or not, this is an issue, and people are going to talk about it until there is an official answer. EVERY graded book I own is in a CBCS slab. I of all people do not want their name tarnished. |
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robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan You can certainly open those old CGC cases, and do whatever you want once the book is out of the holder. But the issue here is that you can't put those holders back together again. Any attempt to use something like tape or glue will be very obvious and evident. Whereas CBCS cases just snap open and snap shut as many times as you want with no visible evidence. That's what people here have an issue with, and why it doesn't compare to CGC's old holder. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just a few observations... - CBCS has kept this thread open. They didn't lock it or "poof" it. - CBCS had the issue come up over the weekend. Getting a response by the end of the week or early next week doesn't seem unreasonable to me. - CBCS didn't deny the situation or attempt to sweep it under the rug. Why does everyone seem to want an answer right this minute? The world isn't a perfect place. Hiccups happen. Things evolve. Let them figure it out and they will get back to their customers. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by robertofredrico That is something simply not true. The CGC gen 1 cases can be successfully opened with no visible cracking most of the time - I get about 70% success rate just using my fingers. No tools. I could probably up that percentage with a blow drier heating the corners but don't care enough to try. A drop of super glue seals them back up and they look fine. Undetectable. |
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JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by TowmaterGood post or +1  |
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robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I've seen people try to glue holders back together. The plastic reacts very badly to the glue, and is very evident. |
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| Post 514 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not if you just glue the posts. Assuming that they even broke to begin with. | ||
| Post 515 • IP flag post | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by robertofredrico As the Doctor says. Just one drop at the post(s). |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I was mostly agreeing with you... My apologies that was not evident. I should have said something at the beginning making that clear. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I would be interested in seeing examples of this. |
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Using the examples of the 10 highest value comic books known to be encapsulated doesn't make any point. OF COURSE a 9.6 Amazing Fantasy #15 in a slab, can not be faked by a lesser copy of AF #15. And no one is worried about something like that happening. It is the Hulk #181's and Walking Dead #1's that people will wonder and worry about. The 9.2's and 7.5's are where these scams would most likely be used. And glue is NOT the answer. Perhaps rivets. Maybe push-in posts that lock and show when opened and put back together, even with glue. I don't know the answer. But I am not paid to know the answer. Or I WOULD know the answer. I would make it my business to know the answer, because it WOULD be my business, in that case. I'm not going to worry about it, and just go by what I have always gone by. "Let the buyer beware" (caveat emptor). "noun: caveat emptor the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made." |
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Quote:Originally Posted by conditionfreak Actually, I'm sure a crafty criminal can replace a higher graded book with a lower graded or fraudulent one and make it look better/acceptable/normal. If people can fake multi-million dollar artwork, of course they can do the same for a book intended to remain in a case. But I agree that the average collector, like me, does not have a major concern about such high grade and big ticket books, simply because we don't buy them. |
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And I should add that I've been impressed once again with CBCS's inclination to address a concern of collectors on this board and work on a solution. Many other companies would not confront a customer concern this way. And controlling the dialogue on a board it created, runs and moderates should come as no surprise. Let's give them some breathing room. | ||
| Post 522 • IP flag post | ||
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yea but... People make fake money and artwork often. And everything else from vases to car VIN numbers. But they don't make them well enough to fool knowledgeable buyers. Heck, even a 16 year old girl in a Convenient store can tell fake money most of the time. And that is where caveat emptor comes into play. Know what you are doing before you spend substantial money. Anything less than substantial money is just lunch money, and is soon forgotten. Plus, if you are "taken", you get to have a long thread on here about the evils of buying from certain people. That's worth a substantial amount of money in its own right. |
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| Post 523 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Per the thread I linked earlier, the opening of the outer shell without tamper evidence was brought up on this very forum 5 months ago, and CBCS did not answer those questions. I think being patient for 5 months is quite long enough. | ||
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| We don't know what efforts are being taken internally. But if any of us wins dinner with SB, we can ask him! | ||
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| They should auction off dinner with Jake from State Farm. | ||
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ONLINE_209 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLegoLOL |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs What Jrs says. I've collected, bought & sold comic books for a very long time. Since the 1960's. I wouldn't be so confident that a 9.4 ASM 15 swapped for a 9.6 wouldn't fool anyone. It would fool nearly everyone. And it would be a worthwhile swap. Like half a million dollars worthwhile. But also as Jrs says, this Big Ticket thing isn't a concern for most collectors because few of us are buying quarter million dollar and up comic books. But the principle is the same. Small time crooks could make nice beer & cigarette money swapping restored 9.0 Hulk 181's and ASM 129's for unrestored 9.2's. It can be done. And it's been a possibility from the first day CGC opened it's doors and it's still possible - WITH ALL OF THE GRADING COMPANIES. But it doesn't happen often - it's rare. I've bought and sold lots of slabbed books since CGC opened in Jan 2000 At least a thousand. Maybe a couple of thousand. I've seen two (swapped/faked books). One fooled me - A Cap 100 that was originally a CGC restored 9.0 that I bought as a CGC 9.2 universal at a show. That one a new label was printed. A nice job on the label - I now know what to look for but it was well done. The slab was perfect. I discovered it when I cracked it. Still have pictures if anyone cares. The other did not fool me - a Star Trek 1 CGC 8.0 that looked no better than 6.0. That one was sent to me with a slab pro (the vinyl rubber case protectors) on it. When I took it off the bottom posts were loose. I believe CBCS is looking at and will implement some improvements that aid in tamper evidence/resistance. But I also know such takes time. No grading company makes their own slabs or inner holders. They buy those from suppliers. Changes have to be both be discussed in what can or can't be done and tooled up to implement. Maybe the tabs could be made more prone to crack on opening. But they still have to be put on WITHOUT cracking. Extending the side welds to the top through the label may involve more than we think. It might involve changes to the inner holder or to the machinery that does the heat sealing. It is just unreasonable to demand answers every few hours when the potential has been around for 17+ years. |
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 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Whew! Finally I got skipped past all the Drama and BS with the "racial/rude" crap that I don't give give a hoot about. Don't care about issues with any of the CGC slabs. Don't even care about the videos at this point as well. Don't care about the debate on the so called "heat seals" on the current CBCS labels. They were obviously never intended for security and even if they are present are still a poor excuse for a security measure. Seriously? A little bitty 1/8 (if lucky)heat seal over run onto the label that can be easily trimmed off. I would like my graded books to be with CBCS, so again I don't care anything about Past, Present or future practices with CGC, PGX or any Grading company out there. NONE of the has ANY bearing on weather or not I will entrust my future hard earned money with CBCS. One thing and one thing only will determine my decision. Will CBCS implement a legitimate security feature? Without that KEY feature it's very hard to be considered a premium top tier Grading and Authentication company. "The label should be heat sealed embossed to the inner well so it can't be removed without destroying it. I'm not talking about along the edges, but embossed with the CBCS logo, it could even be part of the CBCS logo to be less obtrusive. It would kind of give the logo a slight 3 dimensional look. If done right, it might look pretty cool and make the label darn near tamper proof." IF CBCS wants to gain Market share and be taken seriously as top tier professional Grading and Authentication company its going to take a legitimate security measure, as mentioned above for me to consider them a premier player in the hobby. Otherwise they will fall to the way side and become just another second rate wanta be player in the hobby. Sadly, integrity is sorely lacking in today's world. I can only hope that CBCS makes the right decision that will set them apart from all the second tier wantabe's. Until such time I will be reluctant to use the service or product. |
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