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Yellow Label Image 25 Blank Variant Question3888

COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
If you are fortunate to get a Blank Variant sketch Image 25th anniversary book is it possible to have the book graded as a signature yellow label book? If so, how would one do it?
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Best you could get is a red label verifying the signature, because it's not witnessed.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
So, there isn't a form that an artist can sign at a convention that he or she could turn in with the book to a witness and say that's mine, I drew that, please grade it that way?
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater Other than finding a crooked AW or deceiving one, no.

If you cared more for a yellow label than the grade, you could take a hit on the grade for the signature/sketch and have an AW witness a new signature on the book. You may be able to get the book in an ART label and the label would read something like:

"Witnessed sigs: XYZ
Writing and sketch on cover"
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
If an artist signed the form validating they did the art and then hand delivered it, that would be good enough for me, but for CBCS you'll have to talk to Mark Roman and see what he tells you.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
If an artist signed the form validating they did the art and then hand delivered it, that would be good enough for me, but for CBCS you'll have to talk to Mark Roman and see what he tells you.


Thanks, and if that is allowed, I will have to find the artist in question and see if he'll do it. Thanks for the idea.
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
From my understanding of how they have done things in the past. It can only get a red label and can't qualify for the yellow because it is unwitnessed.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater It's a longshot at best. I can't think of any case when CBCS allowed a pre-signed book to get a yellow label but plenty of cases when they disallowed it. Most recently, they have their Valiant Validated post.

As I said, the only way to get a yellow label in this case, that I know of, would be to accept the pre-existing signature and sketch as a flaw on the book and get a witnessed signature on the book.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
So what is wrong with a red label?

Nothing I say.

Unless you just hate red.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cseale0223
From my understanding of how they have done things in the past. It can only get a red label and can't qualify for the yellow because it is unwitnessed.


Then a commission done by an artist that he or she does and sends into CBCS to be graded can't qualify either. Nobody saw them draw it. They just sent it in to be graded as their work. We have seen where artist who draw on their own books are given yellow labels. I think there was a thread about how to do that at one time.
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Collector VictorCreed private msg quote post Address this user
If Kirby's signature can only get a red label, reds are at least on par with yellows to me.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater I would agree. If an artist can fill paperwork out and mail a submission in for yellow label, but can't verify their own previous work or signature via the same paperwork and deliver it at a con, that creates a double standard.
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater the artist has to sign some papers for a commission sent directly to cbcs from them. The piece is not put in the hands of client until it is sent back from cbcs. Once a client has it in their hands without an aw it's unwitnessed. That's the standard that cbcs has used in the past.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@cseale0223 He knows that. Read the question again. The scenario is having the artist at a con verify their own previous work via the paperwork and deliver it to CBCS at the con.
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego I understand that I was saying that cbcs would still not yellow label it. If the piece or signature was not witnessed it dosent count even if the artist says they did the work/signed the item. I have one of the kiss the demon sketches that dynamite comics was sending out. Even if the artist says they did the work it still needs a red label as it touched my hands and my lcs hands without an aw.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cseale0223
@DarthLego I understand that I was saying that cbcs would still not yellow label it. If the piece or signature was not witnessed it dosent count even if the artist says they did the work/signed the item. I have one of the kiss the demon sketches that dynamite comics was sending out. Even if the artist says they did the work it still needs a red label as it touched my hands and my lcs hands without an aw.


If that is the rule applied to these then I won't go to the trouble of slabbing them. I write this as I have never met an artist that doesn't know what he or she drew or did not draw. For them to sign a piece of paper stating that they drew the item in question should be as golden as having a witness leave a book at their table at a con and returning hours later to collect it for grading. Those signatures aren't "witnessed" either. You either trust the artist in both situations or you don't.
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Collector VictorCreed private msg quote post Address this user
My understanding was that the artists can send in their own work with the right forms to receive the yellow label.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCreed
My understanding was that the artists can send in their own work with the right forms to receive the yellow label.

Yes, this is true.

Which is why denying an artist to do the same thing with the same paperwork in person at a con, simply because it wasn't completed on that day, is a double standard.

The artist is the witness. And more reliable than any other witness, because it's their hand that did the work.
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater I think this would work for sketches. Or at least use the artist to verify the sketch for red label. But not signatures most artists sign way to many books to know each one for sure. Plus how many good signature forgers would come crawling out.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
The whole conversation is about a sketch cover.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego it is about a sketch cover. Its mute point cbcs does not yellow label unless it comes from an aw or the artist with correct paperwork. If a signature or sketch touch a clients hand/ taken home without an aw it's red label. That is what cbcs has done in the past with other sketches/ signatures that have been exclusives sent out to stores and clients.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
The whole conversation is about it coming from the artist to CBCS at a con with the paperwork. Same as if they had actually drew it at the con. The fact that both situations would be treated differently is the issue. The artist is the witness, what does it matter if the artist drew it 2 hours ago or 2 weeks ago? They have their paperwork, they hand delivered it to CBCS. Why the double standard? Is this clicking yet?
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@DarthLego Its not clicking for you. The sketch cannot leave the artist or aw and get a yellow label. That has been the standard. The situations are treated differently because anything could happen with the sketch in question. How many famous paintings have been forged and passed off? Using the artist to verify the sketch on top of the signature verification is one thing and adds to the validity of the red label.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
@cseale0223 An artist is going to know if the drawing in question was altered or is forged. Jim Lee knows what he has drawn or didn't draw just by looking at it. He knows if it was altered by someone else too. There are stories of artist walking by OA dealers booths with art for sale attributed to them that aren't signed. They look them over and the ones they say they did not sketch/draw get pulled. As Darth stated, it doesn't matter if it was drawn 2 hours, or 2 weeks ago. They know if they drew it or didn't draw it.
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Collector cseale0223 private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater because it comes down to cbcs and how they handle the yellow label. As they have told me in the past if it leaves the artist/aw to the client its a no go on the yellow label. Unless cbcs changes the stance on this these sketch covers will be red labels.

I do think that cbcs should start sending the scans of sketch covers to the artists for verification for red lables. It would make that process better and validate it a lot more.

Edit: I would guess that cbcs also doesn't want to have fans annoying the artists with this. Meaning how many fans would find these artists and bombard them to do the paperwork and send it in for them?
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater so you have a book that is already sketched?

If im understanding this right, I think you could also submit it as ART, and get a yellow label if you have a witness present when the guy signs it. Or like someone else said take the grade hit on the previous drawing and go yellow label signature for a new one
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
That's true, you could have it witnessed signed again, and then ART label yellow. No grade hit, because there is no grade. Good job @shrewbeer
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Does anyone else see the gaping hole that a truck can be driven through in this scenario...?

You have a book...already sketched. You, Joe Blow, have it in your possession.

You hand it to the artist. You say "I know you did this, and you know you did this...would you mind handing it back to CBCS yourself?"

If you can convince the artist to do that, then there's nothing stopping anyone from doing this. The artist need only do whatever it is that artists do (I don't deal with these types of situations) to be "yellow label confirmed", and the book goes in a yellow label.

The "this left the chain of custody" is still true.

The goal is to discourage loopholes, not encourage them. It would seem the best scenario here would be to accept the artist's witness, regardless of when the book was done. Otherwise, you're encouraging people to do a work around with books that aren't in chain of custody control.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my point of view. Lol
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
I think I'm agreeing with you.

In any event, say I have an undated sketch by Ron Lim on a Silver Surfer #37 blank (I have neither, and the Surfer doesn't exist.)

He did it a couple days ago, or two months ago, or in 2015. When doesn't matter; only that it hasn't been in Ron's possession that whole time.

I walk up to Ron in 2017, and say "hey, remember this sketch you did?"

Ron, who is totally awesome, says "Yeah! That was fun!"

I say to Ron "hey, would you mind having me bring someone over and you confirm that you drew that for me?"

Ron "Sure, no problem!"

Now, again, I don't know how that particular process works, because I don't deal in commissioned sketches, but my understanding is, artists get them, work on them, and when they're done, the AW comes to their table, picks it up, and off it goes, into a yellow label.

If one was nefarious, one could say "hey, Ron, would you mind telling them that you drew this today?" Ron might agree, he might not...but it's a loophole that someone will take advantage of, if they haven't already.
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