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What is the Hulk 181 of this generation?3785

COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@Deadpoolica Unless you are limiting the comparison to 9.8s the 12K sale was legit. I know the guy who sold the book.
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Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@Deadpoolica Unless you are limiting the comparison to 9.8s the 12K sale was legit. I know the guy who sold the book.

Oh I know it was a legit sale, just circumstances were right for an inflated sale
Post 102 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@Deadpoolica Most peak sales happen this way.

The higher the book goes, the more copies come out of the woodwork.
Post 103 IP   flag post
Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@Deadpoolica Most peak sales happen this way.

The higher the book goes, the more copies come out of the woodwork.

True
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Just gonna leave this right here


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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@DocBrown I gave you my source but I am not sure where they compiled their data.

I subscribe to GPA and they are far from complete. I have seen sales data as recently as 3-4 years old drop off. They also do not report CBCS sales, cash sales, or sales from other parties that do not report to them.

Just because you have updated information (the latest Bone sale) it does not invalidate the rest of the data we are working with.


Of course not.

Never said it did.

What invalidates the rest of the data is that it, too, is wrong.

GPA data doesn't "drop off." That's not how the website is designed. You would have to give me examples of information that you saw "drop off."

Yes, the GPA data is not complete, but it does represent the bulk of CGC sales. No, GPA doesn't tell the whole picture...but there's a difference between not having all the information and having WRONG information that is flatly contradicted by published sources. This is most important: GPA data is ACCURATE for what it reports.

This website is not.

Let's look at a few more errors in that site:

First is the aforementioned "$7500" sale for a New Mutants #98. The record for 10 is $15k+. The record for 9.9 is $12k+. The record for 9.8 is $3500. Where does the $7500 "record price" come from...? Don't know; they don't say.

Also, the record sale for GI Joe #21 was $3,050, in 2009, placing it in the top 20..it's listed at this website as $660.

Second: there are books MISSING from this list, including my sale of Primer #5 for $1500. No appearance on this list. Also, Punisher Ltd. #1, record sale (9.8) $550. Also, Batman #427, record sale (9.8) $661. Also, Cry for Dawn #1 (9.8) record sale $750. Also, DAREDEVIL #168!! (Record price $3305) and there are other 1981 books on the list (Avengers Annual #10.)

Third: there are informational errors, as well. For example, #12, the Sandman #8 editorial variant was NOT "recalled." It was given out in California in 1989. Also, the Hulk #377 third came out in 1994...NOT 1991.

More errors: Also Caliber Presents #1 (9.8) $899 (listed at $750.)

ASM #301: "Record price $770", even though there have been EIGHTEEN SALES over $750, with a record of $1320!

Swamp Thing #37: "Record price $800", actual record: $675 for a blue, $4200 for an SS.

Look at Batman #428. "Record sale" was $300? No, the record sale for this book was $966, set back in 2008. (Source GPA)

Look at Predator #1 (1989): "Record sale" $300? No, the record sale for this book was $700, set back in 2014. (Source GPA)

And on down the list. I suspect, if I checked, 9 out of 10 of their "record sales" would be inaccurate, and some by a lot. It's not just "rounding"; these numbers are too far off to account for that.

Now let's look at problems with the page in general. Yes, they explain the inclusion of 10s and 9.9s in their list, but then they don't say just which grades those "record sales" represent. Are they 9.8s? 9.9s? 10s? As another update error, ASM #300 had a 9.9 sale for $13,500 several weeks ago.

And, trying to compare 9.9s and 10s with 9.8s, without even mentioning what each one is, is trying to compare the incomparable. It looks really neat to say a Wolverine #1 (1988) sold for $17k, but a 9.8 is about $100. That's a colossal difference, far greater than just about any other book on that list.

So, the list isn't REALLY a "top 60 most expensive comic book list", because, for all intents, the top 50 are represented by 1 or 2 copies that are the definition of "outlier." It's misleading, at the very least, and gives a very distorted view of the proper placement of these books.

Then, there are their sources. Where are they getting the information from? Gobbledygook #1, "record sale" of $6,000? Where does that information come from? None of their information is sourced. Many of those numbers look to be only the most recent sales data available on eBay at the time this was written.

It's just a hot mess...and there are many more errors than the ones I pointed out.

The problem with this misinformation is that it leads people to make decisions based on error. That's the single biggest problem of ANY "investment" site: misinformation. If you're going to put this information out there, it has to be accurate.

This site doesn't even come close, unfortunately.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpoolica
NM98 9.9 $7600 was a sell from 9/20/2015


True...so how does that relate to the sale of $12,250 from 11/2009?
Post 107 IP   flag post
Collector Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user
I feel like this thread has become a hot mess lol
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COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown You are taking a limited flawed source, GPA and trying to use it as a Bible. The truth is you have not done the research needed to confirm whether or not the source I provided is accurate.

The simple thing to do would be to accept that the data is probably right but you keep pushing the issue. I have no idea why you are hung up on this.

Just because a sale is not in GPA's database doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@DocBrown You are taking a limited flawed source, GPA and trying to use it as a Bible.


No, that's not correct. First, GPA isn't flawed. It IS limited, but the information it contains is accurate. And, it accounts for perhaps 75-95% of the CGC slabs sold every year. If the information contained in GPA directly contradicts the unsourced information from this website, then prima facie one of the two is wrong. That's not "using GPA as the Bible", that's simply separating fact from misinformation.

If you have other sources of information, by all means, please share them so everyone can learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
The truth is you have not done the research needed to confirm whether or not the source I provided is accurate.


Are we talking about the same thing...? This website is what I'm referring to:

http://www.sellmycomicbooks.com/most-valuable-comic-books-copper-age.html

...which you linked above. As exhaustively detailed above, it's filled with so many errors, it's functionally useless.

Is there another source that you provided that I missed? If so, please let me know, I'd be happy to look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
The simple thing to do would be to accept that the data is probably right but you keep pushing the issue. I have no idea why you are hung up on this.


If you're still referring to the website linked above, it's because there's such a colossal amount of misinformation on that page (and, I presume, on their website in general)...especially for a site called "sell my comic books."

It's grossly misleading, and, if taken seriously by anyone, will give them a wholly inaccurate picture of the comics market for these books.

When someone sees "Wolverine #1 (1988), record price $17k!" with zero explanation about the difference between that 10 and a 9.8, and they'll think "well, gosh, my copy's gotta be worth at least $5,000, right??"

They even ask the incredible "Is that really so different from a CGC 9.8 of TMNT #1 selling for $27,000? In both cases, the only reason for the sale is their exceptional grade."

Holy cow, YES! 1,000 times YES!! It is VERY different from a 9.8 copy of TMNT #1. Night and day different. There were, perhaps, 300-500k copies of Wolverine #1 (1988) printed. There were 3250 (source: Peter Laird) copies of TMNT #1 printed. That alone tells a massively different story, but a 9.4 copy of Wolvie is...$50? A 9.4 copy of TMNT #1 is $6,000.

Night and day difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
Just because a sale is not in GPA's database doesn't mean that it didn't happen.


Absolutely true. You get no argument from me on that. That's not the issue, though.
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COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown Think what you will. We have both wasted way too much time on this one.
Post 111 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Oh, on the contrary, I don't consider informing people to be a waste of time at all. I consider it an incredibly valuable service, that helps more people than anyone could possibly know. If I was looking for information on a subject I didn't know much about, I'd be immensely grateful for those who knew what they were talking about to help me out, and would be terribly annoyed to find out that so-called "experts" were full of misinformation.

Just for fun, I took a peak at their "most valuable moderns"...it, too, is an exercise in misinformation.

That's a shame, because whoever designed that website obviously spent a decent amount of time doing so; why they'd waste so much time on misinformation is beyond me, outside of personal gain. No "think what you will" necessary; the facts are there for all to see.

I only hope whomever stumbles on their pages learns the truth.
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COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown If you want to take the time and effort to properly vet the data feel free to inform people. Until then you are just spouting off your opinion.
Post 113 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
@DocBrown If you want to take the time and effort to properly vet the data feel free to inform people. Until then you are just spouting off your opinion.


I'm really confused as to your response here. Again...are we talking about the same website...?

Did you read this post, post #106 in this thread...?

That is where I took the time and effort to properly vet the data; it's all there in black and white.

No opinions of mine given or necessary.

Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
"Also, the record sale for GI Joe #21 was $3,050, in 2009, placing it in the top 20..it's listed at this website as $660."


Those are hard numbers, demonstrating one of the many errors on that site. No opinions.
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
What about gocollect and watchcount? Along with GPA, are they not reliable reporting sites?
By the way, @DocBrown, I believe your comments are spot on. The GPA may be incomplete, but it's not inaccurate for what they are reporting. They even make the effort to remove what are determined to be shill bidding sales. That takes a lot of investigation and cooperation from the community of the hobby to sniff out those kind of fraudulent sales. That means they are actively involved and strive to keep their stats as accurate as possible.
I think ComicLink is the only major auction house that does not report to GPA. Not sure if Pedigree does or My comic shop.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks, Sam. I know Mycomicshop does (their listings are always up at GPA), and I'm pretty positive Greg Reece does, as well.

I don't know if Comic-Connect does. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Gocollect or watchcount, but really, any site that has access to eBay's database (and it's available to all, as I understand it, depending on how you want to utilize the data), if they're just compiling sales is going to have accurate data. Hard to screw up "Comic X #37 in CBCS 9.8 sold for $X."

What I don't understand is why the people of "Sell My Comic Books" posted so much bad, inaccurate information, when all of that stuff is verifiable with just a few clicks. I suspect the answer may be in the website title.

As far as GPA is concerned, I don't like that CGC played hardball with them for access to their database, and that GPA buckled, but...there will be a CBCS database someday. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
And for those wondering: GPA is a data-mining website. All it does is take sales data from the eBay (and whomever else reports to them) site, and compile it. They don't edit anything, other than to remove questionable sales to the bottom of each listing (and, if there's a legit sale that gets moved there, you can write them, and have it moved back.)

I know from the couple of thousand slabs I've sold since 2008-ish, nearly all of which are properly recorded at GPA, and have been since their sales (and I check!)

The "big flaw" (if you can call it that) is that GPA doesn't record ALL sales...but, honestly, that's a fairly weak argument, because so much DOES show up on GPA that unless you're dealing with the very rare, it's pretty easy to come up with an average price for most books...books that are regularly traded.

Ok, sure, it's tough to gauge the value of an 8.5 Journey Into Mystery #35. Granted. But how many times is anyone really going to be in the position to need that information? And books like ASM #14, FF #48, Hulk #181, New Mutants #98, BA #12...these books are traded so often, with literally hundreds or thousands of data points going back 15 years, it's hard to say "well, GPA doesn't record ALL sales, so it's of no use!"

And...there's still the OPG, if GPA just doesn't have enough data...and headline making sales make headlines, even if not recorded on GPA, either (like the 10 New Mutants #98, for example.)
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
Metropolis/ComicConnect sales are reported on the GPA. Everything I have sold through them has shown up on the GPA site (I've been selling through them since 2009).
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user

Post 119 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke





Someday, you'll appreciate the work others do for you, KM.

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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
I appreciate the fact that the collecting community polices itself to some degree. On both this forum and CGC's, some members are really good at weeding out and exposing shillers, scammers, swindlers or anything else that may compromise the integrity of the hobby.
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