Use to like millers art but jesus!? | CBCS Comics

From Wikipedia:

"Although still conforming to traditional comic book styles, Miller infused his first issue of Daredevil with his own film noir style. Miller sketched the roofs of New York in an attempt to give his Daredevil art an authentic feel not commonly seen in superhero comics at the time. One journalist noted,

Daredevil's New York, under Frank's run, became darker and more dangerous than the Spider-Man New York he’d seemingly lived in before. New York City itself, particularly Daredevil's Hell's Kitchen neighborhood, became as much a character as the shadowy crimefighter; the stories often took place on the rooftop level, with water towers, pipes and chimneys jutting out to create a skyline reminiscent of German Expressionism's dramatic edges and shadows." -end

Miller was a master ARTIST of the early 80's, and he was one of the first Marvel/DC comic artists to infuse his style with influences from Japanese Manga (Ronin, Wolverine, Daredevil etc.) which was ahead of its time and hugely influential. Art is subjective, love it or hate it but he went and did it first.

Miller took a stance against naturalism as his style progressed, favouring big and bold compositions, radical and surreal/expressive poses and characters etc. rather than hyper-realistic art which perfectly represents the human form. Again, love it or hate it he took a bold artistic stance with the progression of his style and work and his style is, in my opinion, instantly recognizable and iconic.

I also recommend checking out the work he did in the Marvel Magazine "Bizarre Adventures" #31. Miller wrote, pencilled, and inked a short story called "The Philistine" in this issue, which I believe showcases his artistic mastery. He combines old engravings, renaissance paintings and historical art with modern contemporary comic art of the early 80's. fusing the past with the present into his work.

Has Millers work deteriorated as he has gotten older? In my opinion, yes. But everyone gets old, and that doesn't detract from his exceptional work earlier in his career. Just because he makes something that "sucks" nowadays, doesn't mean his masterpieces from 35 years ago suddenly "suck" too.

I'm a #2.

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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan510
"Actually Frank Miller did Co-Plot the Wolverine Mini-Series, and after Frank Miller's Writing, single handily brought the Daredevil Title back from the brink of cancelation 1981. Im pretty sure it was Miller's influential writing that Claremont was seeking to tap."

I couldn't let this pass... the bolded is pure speculation on your part.

It's laughable really. Miller had won an award for "favorite artist" and you make it seem as if Claremont really only wanted him for his co-plotting ability and that him being the artist was an after thought or perhaps Claremont throwing him a bone in order to get his invaluable co-plotting lol

Not at all surprising since you've called his work as a penciler on this series "ho hum".

Can we be done now? If you want the last word, go ahead and take it.

If your "Spin" wasn't so desperate it would be laughable itself ..... Oh wait, it is laughable!

All the info in my previous post came directly from Frank Miller History(Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Miller_(comics)

And it indeed credits Miller as Co_plotter on the Wolverine Series.

Even more laughable were the 66 Miller covers/Interiors you sited as, Miller being the "Go to Guy"
Your "Go to Guy" list actually proves my point. All but a handful of those 66 books have any notability. Other than the John Carter #18(Millers 1st Publish Marvel work)The rest languish in obscurity and goes virtually unnoticed. I will have to thank You for bringing the John Carter #18 to my attention as I will definitely be picking that book up for my Frank Miller collection Especially at the next to nothing price it commands.

As far as any of the other books? Virtually all of them can likely be found in the "bargin Box"
and the few that have ANY notability at all, were not due to Miller:
Cap #241(1st Punisher in Title),
Power Man #66 (2nd Sabretooth),
Marvel Team Up #95(1st Mockingbird)
X-Man Annual #3 (Claremont/Perez)
Spectacular Spiderman #56 (2nd Jack O Lantern) Although I really like Miller's Cover on that one.

So why is it that virtually all of these Outstanding "Go to" Miller books on your list languish unwanted in Bargain Bins?

The Answer is quite simple, they all lack Frank Miller's innovative writing and industry changing stories that he began serving up on Daredevil, and his early art alone on many of those books simply wasn't strong enough to pull them out of the obscurity many of them still languish in to this very day.

Another Example of this:

FACT
The Daredevil Title was on the verge of being canceled by the Marvel Management since Issue #147(July 1977), when the title went to Bi-Monthly publishing due to lack of sales.

FACT
Frank Miller debuted as the regular artist with issue #158 (May 1979), with Roger McKenzie Writing the title.

FACT
Miller did the art for 10 issues #158-#167 (Nov 1980) with Roger McKenzie being the writer. That's almost 2 years! and the title was still being published Bi-Monthly due to poor sales, with Marvel Management on the verge of still canceling the title!

FACT
As the regular artist on the Title for 10 issues over almost 2 years and continued poor sales, The writing was on the wall. Frank Miller's Artwork on the title alone would not be enough to save the title from continued poor sales and imminent cancelation of by Marvel Management.

FACT
Miller himself almost quit the series, as he disliked McKenzie's scripts so much and became disillusioned with the title.

FACT
New Editor Denny O'Neil realizing Miller's unhappiness with the series, and impressed by a backup story Miller had written, fires Writer Roger McKenzie, and assigns Frank Miller as the New Writer of the title.

FACT
Frank Miller takes over full duties as Writer/Penciler on Dare Devil #168 (Jan 1981). He promptly introduces Elektra and other previously unseen characters who had played a major part in Daredevil's youth and began laying the groundwork and storyline that would not only save the title, but would redefined the character in a way never before imagined in comics, and would become his calling card in all of his future projects.

FACT
Sales rose so swiftly that Marvel once again began publishing Daredevil monthly rather than bimonthly just three issues after Frank Miller became its writer!, despite being the regular artist for almost two years!

FACT
Had Frank Miller not taken over the writing reigns from Roger McKenzie, The title without question continues its downward spiral of poor sales and is likely canceled.

FACT
Unable to handle both writing and penciling Daredevil on the new monthly schedule, Miller began increasingly relying on Janson for the artwork, sending him looser and looser pencils beginning with #173. By issue #185, Miller had virtually relinquished his role as Daredevil's artist, and was providing only rough layouts for Janson to both pencil and ink, allowing him to focus on the writing

FACT
It was Frank Miller's WRITING that saved the title and redefined the character. Which in turn is what launched him to super star status. It would be absolutely ridiculous and asinine for anybody to try and dispute this fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Miller's innovative and Provocative writing and story telling far outshine anything he done art wise.

I don't know. In the Dark Knight Returns, this fight scene is pretty amazing. It is the writing and the art that makes that scene work. The pages are laid out, flow, and convey what is happening perfect so the dialog doesn't overwhelm the reader. It takes both of Miller's talents to project what he was attempting to get through to the reader. Yes, Klaus Janson does a bang up job inking them too.

Oh and the covers off the books are iconic. That's just art by Miller and Janson inking them.

Notice how he didn't address any of the valid points you made concerning the interior art and only commented on the covers?

Though to be fair to him and throw him a bone, at this point in Miller's career he wasn't just a hot artist, he was a hot creator ( writer / artist ).

I think a lot of his objection stems from what appears to be his distaste for Miller's artwork in general.

Nice Spin here again

trying to put words into my mouth to fit your narrative. Had you actually read my post you would have noted where I acknowledged Miller's artwork on the Dark Knight Returns as the absolute best of his career and continued get even better in later projects Like Sin City.

There you go again thinking(not your strong suit) My objection is not about a distaste for Miller's art, Its about the absurd notion you put forward about winning some Comic Buyers Guide fan awards Favorite Artist in 1982 and how it somehow carried more weight than any of the Multitude of prestigious Awards bestowed on him for his strongest attribute, Which was his ground breaking writing and stories that carried ALL of his legendary work, regardless of weather his art was present on the project or not, and you are foolishly going out of your way NOT to acknowledged this FACT because you seem to be stuck on the talking points of some cosmetic CBG award in 1982.

Im a hugh Frank Miller fan and I own and extensive collection of just about all of his Key books and other not so key books. Weather or not I felt some of his earlier art was Weaker or Stronger is my personal unbiased observation of the facts that occurred in Frank Millers Legendary career, and certainly not a distaste for Miller's Artwork in General as you tried to make it out as.

Without Frank Miller's legendary Writing and ground breaking storylines there simply would no Frank Miller. Regards of weather he was the Greatest artist of all time or not, he would seize to exist without the writing attributes which created his legendary status.

Come on Now..... You can do it. Say it..... Say it..... it's ok to swallow that foolish pride and abandoned the absurd narrative you seem to so desperately want to control with your ridiculous talking points about some insignificant CBG award in 1982 and how it defines Frank Miller. Its ok.... Really

Come on now.... Say it...... I know you want to....
"Frank Miller's claim to fame was his Writing and Stories"

You'll feel better knowing you spoke the truth!
"Frank Miller's claim to fame was his Writing and Stories"

OK, if it makes it any easier you can say..
"Frank Miller's claim to fame was his Writing and Stories and he had some nice art as well"

THERE! now don't you feel better with the truth and losing all the stress of trying to hold up all that jibberish you were weight down by.

I knew you would

Now we can check out Some of the COOL Frank Miller Books I got tucked away!

I know #27 is the key book and all, but I always Liked the Pollard cover on #28 better
Either way they're both great books that I had to have for my 1976 Peter Parker Run.

Obviously I could never not have these Landmark Frank Miller Stories in my collection!

A very popular book that I REALLY had to have for my Captain America Run. It features the first appearance of the Punisher in the Title. The Miller Cover could have had a bit more defined detail.

Two Peter Parker that I needed high grade copies of for my 1976 Run. I really like both Miller covers a lot and always thought they were some of Millers best covers.

Damn! Its getting late! After I finish my Thread featuring my complete Thread with my Captain America Run(Long and Winding Road) I'll be able to pull out some more Frank Miller Stuff!

John

8 years ago

Collector 2.42K	2.42K Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by VillageIdiot Millers "greatness" is cemented! There is no other comic creator, writer, nor artist (and he's all three) that has had more impact in multi media platforms, over decades of time. None! He's even directed and co-directed Hollywood films. He actually incomparable to almost anyone with regard to his overall talent. Hard to argue with any of that, though I would say The Spirit is a bit of a black mark on his movie resume.
	8 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

CBCS broke up with me over Facebook. 4.34K	4.34K CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite At SDCC they just announced that he's doing Superman: Year One with John Romita Jr. That would be super! Millers artwork will look spectacular in comparison to Romita Jr's.
	8 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

Collector* 10.54K	10.54K Towmater private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CFP_Comics Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite At SDCC they just announced that he's doing Superman: Year One with John Romita Jr. That would be super! Millers artwork will look spectacular in comparison to Romita Jr's. So, what can baby Superman do in the rocket on its trip to earth? He was around 2 when the Kents found him, wasn't he? Sounds like a boring story.
	8 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

Collector* 10.54K	10.54K Towmater private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@BigRedOne1944 My point was that at year one Superman was traveling in a spaceship towards year. That would be a very boring comic arc. He'd just be sitting in the ship alone.
	8 years ago	Post 57 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Towmater He wasn't Superman until he put on the cape. I'm pretty sure the story is year one of his superhero career, not year one of his literal life after birth.
	8 years ago	Post 58 • IP flag post

Collector 162	162 TheImmortalGI private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	From Wikipedia: "Although still conforming to traditional comic book styles, Miller infused his first issue of Daredevil with his own film noir style. Miller sketched the roofs of New York in an attempt to give his Daredevil art an authentic feel not commonly seen in superhero comics at the time. One journalist noted, Daredevil's New York, under Frank's run, became darker and more dangerous than the Spider-Man New York he’d seemingly lived in before. New York City itself, particularly Daredevil's Hell's Kitchen neighborhood, became as much a character as the shadowy crimefighter; the stories often took place on the rooftop level, with water towers, pipes and chimneys jutting out to create a skyline reminiscent of German Expressionism's dramatic edges and shadows." -end Miller was a master ARTIST of the early 80's, and he was one of the first Marvel/DC comic artists to infuse his style with influences from Japanese Manga (Ronin, Wolverine, Daredevil etc.) which was ahead of its time and hugely influential. Art is subjective, love it or hate it but he went and did it first. Miller took a stance against naturalism as his style progressed, favouring big and bold compositions, radical and surreal/expressive poses and characters etc. rather than hyper-realistic art which perfectly represents the human form. Again, love it or hate it he took a bold artistic stance with the progression of his style and work and his style is, in my opinion, instantly recognizable and iconic. I also recommend checking out the work he did in the Marvel Magazine "Bizarre Adventures" #31. Miller wrote, pencilled, and inked a short story called "The Philistine" in this issue, which I believe showcases his artistic mastery. He combines old engravings, renaissance paintings and historical art with modern contemporary comic art of the early 80's. fusing the past with the present into his work. Has Millers work deteriorated as he has gotten older? In my opinion, yes. But everyone gets old, and that doesn't detract from his exceptional work earlier in his career. Just because he makes something that "sucks" nowadays, doesn't mean his masterpieces from 35 years ago suddenly "suck" too.
	8 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

I'm a #2. 11.57K	11.57K BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by CFP_Comics Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite At SDCC they just announced that he's doing Superman: Year One with John Romita Jr. That would be super! Millers artwork will look spectacular in comparison to Romita Jr's. So, what can baby Superman do in the rocket on its trip to earth? He was around 2 when the Kents found him, wasn't he? Sounds like a boring story. If it is anything Like Miller's Legendary BATMAN: YEAR ONE, You can be certain the story will be anything but boring.
	8 years ago	Post 56 • IP flag post

Use to like millers art but jesus!?3775