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Cameo or Full as 1st appearance3757

COLLECTOR Wolverine private msg quote post Address this user
I think a full picture or half picture where it says the name of said character should be considered the first appearance.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
Mystique has one of the weakest cameos of any character I know of. In Ms. Marvel 16 we only see a person looking through binoculars--that's all we get. Then in issue 17 we see a person disguised as Nick Fury.

Finally in issue 18 we see her in one panel while she is in blue form. One panel! Yet it's considered her full appearance.


Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Pacoma7623 private msg quote post Address this user
Luckily we can use the GPA if we purchase the wrong 1st app lol. (Please read the whole GPA thread if u haven't )
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector Pacoma7623 private msg quote post Address this user
Do slabs move in herds in the wild?
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector Pacoma7623 private msg quote post Address this user
Eddie brock got a weak 1sty also.a hand pushing peter parker in the back....and a few issues b4 the all powerful ish 300 we see the symbiote creep over eddies hands .both of eddies firsties invole just his hands.
Post 30 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Marvel seems to be a fan of the "zero fanfare" first appearance
Post 31 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
Makes no sense to me.

This is considered a first appearance:



This is considered a cameo:



Post 32 IP   flag post
Collector ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacoma7623

i believe this is the book he's talking about.shows the round "ship" containing doomsday


Nicely done Pacoma. Yep....so you too have thought about this?
Post 33 IP   flag post
Collector ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user
Here are the panels...



Post 34 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
Makes no sense to me.

This is considered a first appearance:



This is considered a cameo:





Yea, Hulk 180 being considered a cameo, is the biggest farce in the hobby. But only because Wolverine is one of the really top tier characters. I am sure there are some lesser collected characters that are slighted more in regards to "first appearance".

If I was king of this hobby. A "first appearance" would be the first showing of the characters face or body in costume, where it is later recognizable as that character. For those who don't wear costumes, it would be the recognizable face. Not in shadow or silhouette, or a hand or leg picture.

Strange Tales 114 should be the first appearance of Captain America in the silver age. Even though it is the Acrobat dressed as Cap. Yea, I said it!
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector James private msg quote post Address this user
Hulk 180 and Amazing 299 are both examples where it should be the characters first appearance, especially as Venom shows up in several panels AND a full last page in 299.

Darkseid's first appearance is another I hear disputed as Forever People #1, and as shown above it's a hard argument to refute when compared to the aforementioned books.

What about the most convoluted first appearance: Sgt. Rock? GI Combat #68 is supposedly a prototype, I'll give them that. Our Army at War #81 has a character named Sgt. Rocky of Easy Company - another one I'd accept as some kind of prototype because of that pesky Y. But Our Army At War #82 we get a full appearance by Sgt. Rock and yet #83 is STILL considered the first appearance. This one has always been a headscratcher to me.

Hellboy is another character with several attributed first appearances - Next Men #21, San Diego Comic Con #2, and Dime Press #4. Dime Press #4 even has Hellboy on the cover, which seems to be the deciding factor in many of these disputes - CGC even calls Next Men 21 the First Full Color Appearance, while merely stating on Dime Press that it has a 'Hellboy Cover that predates US appearance'. They assign the title of First appearance to SDCC #2.

Spawn has the Malibu Sun vs Rust vs Spawn #1 debate.

I think a lot of these were decided based on which copies collectors had more of at the time...
Post 36 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
It seems the term "cameo" is being misused on the labels of grading companies.

Cameo is a brief appearance of a well known character at the time of publication.

Here is how cameo is defined by the Oxford Dictionary:

A small character part, played by a distinguished actor.


I hate the fact that comic collecting terminology is so messed up. It makes me wish that Marvel and DC would quit minting comic books! What about those really beat up comics in Good condition?
Post 37 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
"I hate the fact that comic collecting terminology is so messed up. It makes me wish that Marvel and DC would quit minting comic books! What about those really beat up comics in Good condition?"

Am I missing something? What does this all mean?
Post 38 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
Makes no sense to me.

This is considered a first appearance:



This is considered a cameo:





Most recently, "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134" is labeled as a Darkseid cameo





Post 39 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
"I hate the fact that comic collecting terminology is so messed up. It makes me wish that Marvel and DC would quit minting comic books! What about those really beat up comics in Good condition?"

Am I missing something? What does this all mean?


I believe X51 is referring to the grading scale that catagorizes a low-grade (2.0) condition comic in the Good (GD) range.
Post 40 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Got it. Makes sense now. Thanks.
Post 41 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
So now the terminology being used is "first appearance in cameo" and "first full appearance", so a character can have multiple "firsts" and let the hobby decide which is the most definitive and valuable?
Post 42 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
So now the terminology being used is "first appearance in cameo" and "first full appearance", so a character can have multiple "firsts" and let the hobby decide which is the most definitive and valuable?


The terminology gets very confusing.

Hypothetically speaking...

If a character debuts as a main character in a certain issue of a comic and then has a one panel appearance in the next issue, the character would have their first cameo appearance occur AFTER their first full appearance.
Post 43 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Batman 357. Cgc credits it as the first full appearance of Jason Todd. Cbcs credits it a the first appearance, while also noting it is killer crocks first "full" appearance. Below is all you get. One frame and no first name.


Post 44 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 please explain your previous comment, what terminology were you referring to? And how does Marvel or DC have to do with what we collectors do and how we communicate? All they do is draw pictures and tell stories, they don't give a rip what we decide to call things.
Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the VERY brief appearance of Thanos in Iron Man #55.
Post 46 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
We are all under mob rule in our hobby. Popular opinion wins out the day no matter how right or wrong
Post 47 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
I know most dont care much about Green Lanterns but heres my go-to example of CGC being idiots (or just not giving a sht)

Green lantern 20(just her fist)
* CGC "first appearance Jessica Cruz"
* CBCS -nothing-



Justice League 30 (single frame)
* CGC (nothing)
* CBCS " first appearance Jessica Cruz in cameo"



Justice League 31 (cover appearance, plenty of frames) * CGC (nothing)
* CBCS "First full appearance & orgin power ring (Jessica Cruz)"
Post 48 IP   flag post
I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
How about Spider-Man's black/alien costume? ASM #252, Marvel Team-Up #141, and Spectacular Spider-Man #90 are all "tied" as its first appearance. Then 7 months later, its "explained" in Secret Wars #8.
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector Pacoma7623 private msg quote post Address this user
1st app of cable? When hes a baby in x-men 201?the last panel of new mutants 86 or when hes on the cover of new mutants 87?
Post 50 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
I'll throw in Bishop as another example
Uncanny X-Men #282
Uncanny X-Men #283
Post 51 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS_Comics
I'll throw in Bishop as another example
Uncanny X-Men #282
Uncanny X-Men #283


Good one! He makes the cover on 282, so imo thats trumps a full appearance inside the pages
Post 52 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBildhauser
I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the VERY brief appearance of Thanos in Iron Man #55.


I'll have to look at that one...I though technically it was a robot clone in #55.

What is considered his "second appearance?" Captain marvel 25 or 26? He makes a cover appearance on 26 and is more than a cameo...this might be technically his first "full" appearance...
Post 53 IP   flag post
Collector Doc_Cop private msg quote post Address this user
Thank God! Finally a topic that one could sink his teeth into! I believe this issue should be addressed by Overstreet. And if the definition of first appearance and cameo become clearer, so be it!
Post 54 IP   flag post
I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. drchaos private msg quote post Address this user

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