Grading Companies3754
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mattness private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shrewbeer- Ah see.. this is what I need actual facts. @DarthLego - Thanks Darth. I'll go hunt for the thread. @conditionfreak - Thanks I appreciate it. Looks like I got some homework  |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just google "pgx scandal". You will have a days worth of reading to find the evidence you need. | ||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'll save you the searching because it's not quite that easy to find this story with simple Google terms if you don't know what to look for. http://www.justafanboy.com/PGX/ |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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mattness private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Yowzers..think I'll hang on to that link for posterity. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by conditionfreak Collectors that collect mostly slabbed books lose sight of the fact that slabbed books are a teeny, tiny part of the hobby The vast, overwhelming majority of the hobby consists of raw book collectors, sellers and dealers. Just go to any comic book show, any comic book store. What percentage of the inventory is slabbed? Where I live has three comic book stores Two of them have zero slabbed books. The one where the owner likes professionally graded and slabbed books he has 15,000 comics and maybe 100 slabs IDK if the hobby is expanding. But the overwhelming majority of collectors don't own a single slab. So what is happening is people hear and see slabbed books and then put their toes in the water. As for PGX, I will simply say that they are no where near as good as they should be - and no where near as bad as some make them out to be. I collect comic books - not plastic holders from a particular grading company. As such, I've purchased - and will continue to purchase - PGX books that are attractively priced, something I want and the seller takes returns (assuming I did not purchase in person) CGC has a few scandals of it's own. The trimming scandal, books that have gone from blue to purple and purple to blue. Newbies buying slabbed books would be well advised to stick with CBCS and CGC until they better understand what the various grades should look like. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| PGX is as crooked as a dog's leg. The justafanboy link explains much of the issues and trust me there is more. Daniel was given ample opportunity to respond to these events and he pretty much did nothing or said they would do something but never did. He had some collector friends of mine working for him and they made every effort to help him clean up his image but he kept blowing them off. They redesigned the web site and handled all sorts of stuff and took flac for it. Ultimately he dumped them and without paying them all off the money for their services that were due. Daniel is a crook and as such should not be supported. Factor in their terrible grading and resto detection and there is all the reasons you need not to support them. Personally, I refuse to even consider a PGX graded book as purchasing one only encourages use of that company and that is a sin to me since Daniel does not deserve to be in business. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity.
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wow. If this is true (and I absolutely believe it is) it gives me enough reason to truly ban PGX. | ||
| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| James and Erik of the old STL forum were the ones who got stiffed by Daniel. The whole affair pretty much chased them away from the collecting community for a few years for one and pretty much for good for the other. | ||
| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Odvar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think many understand what collectors look for. Most collectors want preserved and valuable items. They will most likely buy an item at the highest value if it is slabbed, because they know the value and condition is maintained. This is why it matters which company you use. Sure, some may give it different ratings, but who has quality and handling to back their name? This is why I choose CBCS. | ||
| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego If PGX is this bad and dishonest how come they are still in business? |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Rafel Because some people don't know, are too cheap, or just don't care. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hope and Change. | ||
| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Odvar private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Rafel Most of the time it's because non-collectors sell the idea on eBay that you can turn in a competitors slabbed comic for a discount while the seller still collects on the minimal profits. PGX is cheap, and many people who grab up comics for a quick flip of profit utilize their pressing and slabbing abilities. Inexperienced buyers who are just starting out in collecting as a hobby will be mislead and likely buy a PGX unknowingly and buy it at the same price as it would have been sold if it was graded by CGC or CBCS. To be truthful, PGX seems to survive by way of their cheap prices and appeal to those who want to make a quick buck for a flip. |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JWKyle Believe it or not, I have a CGC SS book sketched and signed by Shawn Caffrey. I would like to have a CGC SS and a CBCS SS book sketched and signed by Steve Borock. If you are reading this Steve. We could give the money to the charity of your choice. But CGC probably would not grade one now. |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Odvar Thank you for this explanation. It does make sense. I thought about bidding on PGX slabs, then have them regraded with CBCS but after this I'd be weary of anything with "PGX" on it. Thank you again. |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oxbladder Pretty much the same reasons people keep voting for dishonest Congress persons for 30 plus years instead of kicking them out. |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Ignorance is bliss with some people. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Why I use CBCS When I started going to comic book shows in the 1970's (back then they had sports card shows and comic book shows, not conventions), there were no grading companies and everyone either agreed with the grade the seller told you (only P, F, G, VG, FN, VFN, NM - no numbers!), or you disagreed and worked out an acceptable price. By the late 1980's I was moving onto other things in my life and spending money every week for my comic book subscription wasn't a top priority anymore. I was also a little burned out from comics, especially with rising costs, way too many mini-series and titles, and IMO weaker stories and art. So I took a break, for about 25 or so years. Thankfully, I didn't get rid of the vast majority of my comics, and eventually the bug bit me again (never really lost the bug to be honest). So I started doing some research and saw that slabbed/graded comics were selling at premiums compared to raw comics (at least for higher grades and key issues). So I potentially had hundreds or even thousands of comics that might need slabbing. Which company should I chose? I looked at CGC and saw that they were the first and considered the standard. I looked at becoming a member and their costs, which I thought were kind of expensive. I also looked at PGX, but there was something "shady" about their reputation, but compared to CGC they were fast and a lot cheaper. Then I heard about this new company called CBCS. Their cases looked good (clear), their prices were better than CGC (at least they were back then), and they were started by the same guy who started CGC. I thought about giving them a try. When I saw that they were going to be at my local Comic Con (no longer a show), I pulled a bunch of books and brought them with me to the Con. After talking with two CBCS reps for about ten minutes, I felt confident enough in the company that I handed over my books and haven't looked back since. Their reps knew comics and collectors, and you could feel that they were both interested and invested in their work. I do own a few CGC slabs, but I really try to buy CBCS whenever possible. I have only sent books to CBCS for grading. I do not own any PGX books. |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Isn't the New New CGC slab still the Franken-slab only it now has an inner well? If so, then that means the book still has a ton of pressure on it which is not good for any book's spine, especially the GA/SA era. If I'm wrong then please correct me. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Pre_Coder The are three versions of the new CGC case. Version 1: The Creep Engine, had no inner well, held books in place using outer case pressure between two sheets of mylar. Version 2: The Franken Slab, was the first attempt of CGC to fix the problem they still deny ever existed. This version shoved old inner wells into the new outer shell they were not designed for. This slab had new issues because of the inner wells not fitting properly, puddling was common. Version 3: The current slab, has a properly fitted inner well, pretty much fixed every problem except Newton Rings. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks! I remember version 1 and 2 - what a joke. I'm glad my books were not involved in that fiasco. | ||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think as a new collector you have to be open to all the grading companies, only because it really just depends on your situation and what your goals are for collecting. We all want our prized comics inside a protective case so we don't get our Cheeto fingers on them, and we also like a number on them so we can sleep easy at night knowing what we have isn't fool's gold. I would say overall CGC, CBCS, and PGX are the top 3. If you are looking to just protect your collection, you could skip all 3 and get some nice mylar bags, with backing boards, slide that into hard top loaders, and file them inside a long comic box. If you plan to do any sort of reselling, then it's against your best interest to rule any of the top 3 grading companies out. You give the company your comic, you pay them for their service, and then after they perform the services you request...you get the book back. CBCS & CGC are the most similar of the group using rigorous community driven grading standards dating quite a ways back. PGX uses their own grading standards and for me comparing PGX to CBCS/CGC is like apples to oranges...that being said, there is a decent chance that if you send 1 comic to all 3 companies you could get 3 different grades back all based on the same scale(.5 - 10). I think without discussing all the drama that has existed between the various companies, the simplest way to describe what the companies stand for is by explaining their birth. Feel free to Google PGX, CBCS, and CGC lawsuits, forum drama, and conflict of interests at your own leisure.  PLEASE(anyone) correct me if I am wrong but CGC started in 2000 due to a demand for professional comic grading, much like what existed for cards/coins. After that, PGX came alone in 2002 as an alternative to CGC where cheaper prices had always been their customer winner. Fast forward to 2014(I believe?), and CBCS was born of CGC but with the intent for better service and transparency for it's customer's that the ex-CGC president(now CBCS) thought CGC was sorely missing. Fast forward to today(2017) - I feel like this little tale still holds up. CGC is the staple company for which all other companies base themselves and try to improve upon. PGX is the small competitor trying to win over the budget grader, and CBCS is CGC 2.0 with a more modern website, forums, and services tailored to what people are asking for. Comic Cons are bigger than ever, and comic book media has taken over the world. Which company do you choose? Well, like I said initially...it depends.  |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
| About 3 years ago I got back into collecting comic books and came across "graded" comic books by CGC, CBCS and PGX. So I did my homework. I asked around and googled each company to see what problems each had had. Turns out my findings were....PGX is some guy working out of his garage but cost was low. CGC was the standard but they have more complaints than I could count and are very expensive. CBCS, I was able to sit down with them and they explained now things are done and why they are better than CGC and PGX. Plus they were reasonable in their pricing. CBCS does have it's share of problems and in my opinion 99% of their problems are simple....they are under staffed and over booked (pardon the pun). I did notice something about CGC and CBCS. Comic books grade by CGC sell higher then CBCS. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe because they started it all and that's what people are used to. For my taste and company I trust it's CBCS. I've spent close to 5 digits on my own collection to get some comic books graded and spent zero with PGX and CGC. All in all it's up to the individual. |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC books sell higher because CBCS sellers get impatient and undercut themselves and the competition. Buyers always bargain hunt, so which slab will they buy, the one on sale of course. But that CGC book will always sit longer than the guy willing to undercut for fast cash. | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC is too widely accepted at this point for the end-user's sale price to be affected. Most people dont know about the scandals, nor do they care. I've got many complaints about their grading standards, but at the end of the day their slabs will sell just as well if not better. I can buy a cgc 9.8 book that I KNOW is no more than a CBCS 9.6, but its still going to command a 9.8 price, and at this point probably always will. I've had a hard time wrapping my head around that lately. Its a moral dilemma. Do I buy a 9.8 that (by my standards) is NOT a 9.8 for investment? The logical answer is that I should just accept that although both companies produce different quality 9.8s, at the end of the day they ARE both 9.8s in the marketplace. PGX really doesnt deserve to be in the conversation. Their slabs command a fraction of the other grading companies, simply because the grade isnt trusted; and frankly it doesnt deserve to be. |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by conditionfreak I've had enough Hope and Change to last a lifetime. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not only is PGX's grade not trusted, you have to think about their poor track record spotting restoration too. I agree they should not even be part of the conversation, and I would discount someone who chooses to discuss them as if they were a legitimate business. imo | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not to mention that their entire business is run out of a residential property. Which is a confirmed fact. | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego That actually doesnt bother me much. I consult a few engineers that work out of their home. If they screw up confirming my calculations, people die. Nobody is dead yet and structures are still standing  |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I hear where you are coming from. But doing consulting work out of your home is vastly different than housing potentially 10s of thousands of dollars worth of customer property while you work on them. |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
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