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Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by KingNampa Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by KingNampa @DocBrown Please explain? Yes, that's what's called a private message. All these "cats with yarn" pictures are pretty hardcore trolling you're doing. Eventually, the mods will notice. I disagree with your point and offer the opposite argument. Who's on first...?
	8 years ago	Post 426 • IP flag post

Collector 6.76K	6.76K KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by KingNampa Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by KingNampa @DocBrown Please explain? Yes, that's what's called a private message. All these "cats with yarn" pictures are pretty hardcore trolling you're doing. Eventually, the mods will notice. I disagree with your point and offer the opposite argument. Who's on first...? @DocBrown All these "cats with yarn" pictures you are posting are pretty hardcore trolling. Eventually, the mods will notice.
	8 years ago	Post 427 • IP flag post

Collector 2.42K	2.42K Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 More flies with honey than with vinegar, just sayin'. Who wants to catch flies...? Better life with honesty than telling people what they want to hear, just sayin'. As long as it's behind a keyboard and where they can't see it, right? I wouldn't know. Is that how you handle things? Edit: Not worth it.
	8 years ago	Post 428 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 More flies with honey than with vinegar, just sayin'. Who wants to catch flies...? Better life with honesty than telling people what they want to hear, just sayin'. As long as it's behind a keyboard and where they can't see it, right? I wouldn't know. Is that how you handle things? So you're always honest and direct with people? Is that what you're saying here? No, seriously? I'll pull one from the favored playbook around here:
	8 years ago	Post 429 • IP flag post

Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! 6.28K	6.28K IronMan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 7
	I'm not really sure what people are arguing about. Sorta makes me wish for the good old days, when lots of boardies on a thread about grading companies would bash PGX, offer vague criticisms of CGC and sing the praises of CBCS But anyway, I'm in before the lock
	8 years ago	Post 430 • IP flag post

Collector 25.63K	25.63K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4

	8 years ago	Post 431 • IP flag post

Collector 25.63K	25.63K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Well people do talk with each other - just got an order in from Kansas. When I looked at the address - it seemed familiar. Turns out that I sold to the neighbor in the same very small town a month ago
	8 years ago	Post 432 • IP flag post

Collector 4.84K	4.84K dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	F O R M V O L T R O N !
	8 years ago	Post 433 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.21K	60.21K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Winter is coming.
	8 years ago	Post 434 • IP flag post

Collector* 10.54K	10.54K Towmater private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	@DocBrown Doc, I think you overlook a very important part of what the moderation was doing with that individual. We kept giving him chances. If it were some sort of popularity contest with the mods he would have been banned with little hesitancy. He kept breaking forum rules. It would have been justified. However, he brought knowledge to the forum that was constructive when he chose to share it that way. He had worth and it was acknowledged in all the discussions in the private area of the forum where all of us mods chat. Therefore, the progressive discipline was used to correct the behavior that was against forum rules allowing him to change his ways, and stay as a member. Looking at it from that angle might give you a different perspective on the situation and what we were doing. Banning someone is easy. Finding ways to keep a member who breaks forum rules and is disruptive is much harder.
	8 years ago	Post 435 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 13.26K	13.26K shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Round 4 anyone?
	8 years ago	Post 436 • IP flag post

Collector 4.84K	4.84K dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4

	8 years ago	Post 437 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Holy Great Pyramids of Egypt Batman!
	8 years ago	Post 438 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by dpiercy F O R M V O L T R O N ! This is like prank calling 911. Voltron will not be happy.
	8 years ago	Post 439 • IP flag post

I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. 27.13K	27.13K kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	So... what is everyone arguing about exactly by this point? Cat yarn memes and private messages warning about said cat pictures? I love cats. I have a black bombay cat with yellow eyes. His name is "Sir High Lord Louis Cornelius Barthlowmew Craig T Nelson Sorensen Jr Esquire, III." The vet hates writing his name down in full on the paperwork it never fits in the blanks provided. trolololol SOooooo we just call him "Louie" or "Lou Cat" for short, which is actually a play on the 90s ska punk raggae band Sublime's dalmation dog, Louie. #TRUESTORY
	8 years ago	Post 440 • IP flag post

I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. 30.41K	30.41K drchaos private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	If this is now a cat thread I will make a contribution:
	8 years ago	Post 441 • IP flag post

Suckin' on a chili dog Outside the Tastee Freez. 4.63K	4.63K RexMuff private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	From pyramids to driving cats, this place has it all. This thread feels kinda like the dive bar of the forum, with two guys in the corner arguin about somethin, every once in a while somebody says something random from the other side of the bar, the floors sticky, it's great.
	8 years ago	Post 442 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1

	8 years ago	Post 443 • IP flag post

Collector 2.42K	2.42K Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater @DocBrown Doc, I think you overlook a very important part of what the moderation was doing with that individual. We kept giving him chances. If it were some sort of popularity contest with the mods he would have been banned with little hesitancy. He kept breaking forum rules. It would have been justified. However, he brought knowledge to the forum that was constructive when he chose to share it that way. He had worth and it was acknowledged in all the discussions in the private area of the forum where all of us mods chat. Therefore, the progressive discipline was used to correct the behavior that was against forum rules allowing him to change his ways, and stay as a member. Looking at it from that angle might give you a different perspective on the situation and what we were doing. Banning someone is easy. Finding ways to keep a member who breaks forum rules and is disruptive is much harder. So, out of curiosity...if said member had not brought knowledge to the forum that was constructive when he chose to share it that way, would you and the other mods have tried as hard to allow him to stay? This was a big discussion recently on another forum I go to about how the rules should apply to everyone the same.
	8 years ago	Post 444 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater @DocBrown Doc, I think you overlook a very important part of what the moderation was doing with that individual. We kept giving him chances. If it were some sort of popularity contest with the mods he would have been banned with little hesitancy. He kept breaking forum rules. It would have been justified. However, he brought knowledge to the forum that was constructive when he chose to share it that way. He had worth and it was acknowledged in all the discussions in the private area of the forum where all of us mods chat. Therefore, the progressive discipline was used to correct the behavior that was against forum rules allowing him to change his ways, and stay as a member. Looking at it from that angle might give you a different perspective on the situation and what we were doing. Banning someone is easy. Finding ways to keep a member who breaks forum rules and is disruptive is much harder. Again, I don't doubt that this is what you believe, and I don't even doubt that this is probably true. Without specifics (for which I am not asking), one can only take your word for it. I've been in authority over others before; I'm as familiar with those who break the rules, and how to deal with that, as any. And, I could discuss whether your perspective about the individual was a reasonable one, based solely on what you say here, but that would require more words, so that can perhaps be another discussion elsewhen. While all of that is interesting theoretically, you're not picking up the practicality of what I'm laying down, which is that it is the interpretation and application of rules...if they even exist...that is the issue. And if there are no rules (that is, every decision is at the discretion of the one(s) making it, with no chance of appeal)...or there are rules to address every conceivable violation one could possibly come up with, the other side of the same coin...then nothing is a violation, and everything is. What people in authority, including myself, have persistently not considered, throughout human history, is the effect of their own bias on how they deal with others. I would be lying to you if I said my personal feelings about someone under my authority didn't color my judgment. So would you. So would everyone. If you think that personal feelings don't play a significant, if not deciding, role in these decisions, you're fooling yourself. And that's true of individuals AND groups, especially when those groups operate out of the eyes of the public. That's why it's called an "echo chamber": you're only hearing views that reinforce, and never challenge, your own.
	8 years ago	Post 445 • IP flag post

Collector 6.76K	6.76K KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater @DocBrown Doc, I think you overlook a very important part of what the moderation was doing with that individual. We kept giving him chances. If it were some sort of popularity contest with the mods he would have been banned with little hesitancy. He kept breaking forum rules. It would have been justified. However, he brought knowledge to the forum that was constructive when he chose to share it that way. He had worth and it was acknowledged in all the discussions in the private area of the forum where all of us mods chat. Therefore, the progressive discipline was used to correct the behavior that was against forum rules allowing him to change his ways, and stay as a member. Looking at it from that angle might give you a different perspective on the situation and what we were doing. Banning someone is easy. Finding ways to keep a member who breaks forum rules and is disruptive is much harder. Again, I don't doubt that this is what you believe, and I don't even doubt that this is probably true. Without specifics (for which I am not asking), one can only take your word for it. I've been in authority over others before; I'm as familiar with those who break the rules, and how to deal with that, as any. And, I could discuss whether your perspective about the individual was a reasonable one, based solely on what you say here, but that would require more words, so that can perhaps be another discussion elsewhen. While all of that is interesting theoretically, you're not picking up the practicality of what I'm laying down, which is that it is the interpretation and application of rules...if they even exist...that is the issue. And if there are no rules (that is, every decision is at the discretion of the one(s) making it, with no chance of appeal)...or there are rules to address every conceivable violation one could possibly come up with, the other side of the same coin...then nothing is a violation, and everything is. What people in authority, including myself, have persistently not considered, throughout human history, is the effect of their own bias on how they deal with others. I would be lying to you if I said my personal feelings about someone under my authority didn't color my judgment. So would you. So would everyone. If you think that personal feelings don't play a significant, if not deciding, role in these decisions, you're fooling yourself. And that's true of individuals AND groups, especially when those groups operate out of the eyes of the public. That's why it's called an "echo chamber": you're only hearing views that reinforce, and never challenge, your own. I disagree with your point and offer the opposite counter point...
	8 years ago	Post 446 • IP flag post

CBCS broke up with me over Facebook. 4.34K	4.34K CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 7
	Stan Lee and Jack Kirby love a good yarn.
	8 years ago	Post 447 • IP flag post

CBCS broke up with me over Facebook. 4.34K	4.34K CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Why even market the raw book with the 9.0 CGC label then? Apparently this IS rocket science. "good faith" my butt, more like "cha ching"! When someone acts in good faith they are open about everything, act with good intentions, and acting in a manner that doesn't allow for another to be taken advantage of in the situation. How is withholding information you know, or to hide information acting in good faith? To do so is to be deceptive. That isn't acting in good faith. I concur.
	8 years ago	Post 448 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CFP_Comics Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Why even market the raw book with the 9.0 CGC label then? Apparently this IS rocket science. "good faith" my butt, more like "cha ching"! When someone acts in good faith they are open about everything, act with good intentions, and acting in a manner that doesn't allow for another to be taken advantage of in the situation. How is withholding information you know, or to hide information acting in good faith? To do so is to be deceptive. That isn't acting in good faith. I concur. For this to be consistent, one would have to inform one's customers every time a book graded less than expected, and a request for a review happened which resulted in a grade bump. That is, if a book graded 9.2, but upon review, the book was changed to 9.4, that 9.2 opinion must necessarily be disclosed, or one is not, according to the above argument, "open about everything, act(ing) with good intentions, and acting in a manner that doesn't allow for another to be taken advantage of in the situation." Because information...that the grading company originally graded this a 9.2...is being withheld from the potential customer. That's the argument that's being made, right...? So, then, does that information actually get disclosed? "This book was originally graded 9.2 by CBCS, but I called in and asked them to review it, and they agreed that it was more accurately graded a 9.4." Does any seller say that to a potential customer...? Oh, I highly doubt it. I doubt it's ever happened, in the entire history of slab selling. Why? Because grading is subjective; it's an opinion, with which one may reasonably disagree. It is not "withholding information" to not disclose a previous OPINION about an item's condition, because that "information", according to the owner of the item, isn't valid...and they're perfectly justified in saying so. After all...when I sold my Wolverine Ltd #1 on eBay in its CGC 9.8 slab, I didn't tell anyone that it had originally been on-site (and inaccurately) graded a 9.4, and I had cracked it, done nothing to it, and sent it in under a 9.8 pre-screen, which it passed, because 9.8 is what it should have been the entire time. Did I "withhold information"...? Not hardly. CGC got it wrong the first time. Plain and simple. I was no more bound to "dislose" that it was originally a 9.4 than someone is bound to disclose they once got crabs from an ex, if those crabs are long gone. I think I know where many folks are getting hung up, here, and that's the idea that a grade is somehow a fact. It is not. It is only an opinion. A fact would be something like "this book has a dot of color touch" or "the right edge of this book was trimmed." Those would be facts (if true, natch), and not disclosing those would be, rightfully, withholding information. An opinion about the book's grade...it's level of physical preservation...is NOT a fact, but an *opinion, which is self-evident by the actual fact* that the book's grade can change upon review.** And opinions are subject to change. After all...a real estate agent gives an estimate on a house's condition that the owner doesn't agree with, is the owner "withholding information" to not "disclose" that agent's assessment? And if another agent from that same company has a better assessment, is the owner not free to use the assessment with which he agrees? And doesn't any potential buyer have the ability to come to his or her OWN conclusions about the house they're standing right in front of...? Same situation. Buyers can see the book in front of them, and sellers can use opinions about its condition with which they agree, and discard opinions with which they don't, and not be "withholding information", "acting in bad faith", or "taking advantage of someone."
	8 years ago	Post 449 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	via Imgflip Meme Generator
	8 years ago	Post 450 • IP flag post

CBCS broke up with me over Facebook. 4.34K	4.34K CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Mods have told me in the past to stop doing something. I stopped doing that something. Pretty simple really. We are hanging out on a business' website. The mods must defend the wall, they need to protect the brand over all else; and they should. Even if that means stomping on someone for what may seem to others as undeserved. I got a warning about something I did. I stopped doing it. Why? I wanted to remain a part of the community and not be a pariah to the mods by continuing to challenge their authority. Sometimes people just can't let things go. They come across as being delusional when they continue to post in the way that they have been warned about continuously in the past. Example, I think that I made the best case I could about what was bothering me last week. It fell on deaf ears. To have continued to take up the charge would have turned those that showed some empathy for my reaction in a different direction. It would have done more damage than good. Why would you do this? Wouldn't you rather be right (in your own eyes) than happy?
	8 years ago	Post 451 • IP flag post

CBCS broke up with me over Facebook. 4.34K	4.34K CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 Sure, go ahead and PM me. Maybe you can PM everyone here you've had something to say about in your safe space. I think everyone's moved on. It would be nice if you did, too. If you want to discuss it, there are appropriate places to do so...this isn't it, I think. Sure, go ahead and PM me. That stands for private message, so no one else will see it. Thanks Thanks for the link Casey. Interesting to say the least.
	8 years ago	Post 452 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CFP_Comics Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Mods have told me in the past to stop doing something. I stopped doing that something. Pretty simple really. We are hanging out on a business' website. The mods must defend the wall, they need to protect the brand over all else; and they should. Even if that means stomping on someone for what may seem to others as undeserved. I got a warning about something I did. I stopped doing it. Why? I wanted to remain a part of the community and not be a pariah to the mods by continuing to challenge their authority. Sometimes people just can't let things go. They come across as being delusional when they continue to post in the way that they have been warned about continuously in the past. Example, I think that I made the best case I could about what was bothering me last week. It fell on deaf ears. To have continued to take up the charge would have turned those that showed some empathy for my reaction in a different direction. It would have done more damage than good. Why would you do this? Wouldn't you rather be right (in your own eyes) than happy? "Being happy", like all emotions, is fleeting. Being right in your own eyes has no value. But having the truth...now that's something worth pursuing.
	8 years ago	Post 453 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR

13.26K

shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown
I think I know where many folks are getting hung up, here, and that's the idea that a grade is somehow a fact

No, that is not the hangup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown
It's simply that CGC's standards had shifted in the couple of years since the book was graded, and they now hammer the holy hell out of tanning

The issue here is that a seller showed a grade in order to promote a sale (which implies to a buyer that CGC could agree with this grade again), when the seller knew for a fact that could not happen under the new grading standards (your words above). Therefore it is deceptive at its core.

Had the seller disclosed that CGC changed their standards since that grade was given and it would not get that grade again, even in the same condition, there would be no issue here. Like I've said before, showing that label is akin to ripping out an interior page and showing the previous label. You know that the label is no longer a valid opinion of the grading company, so don't show it.

If the situation was someone getting three different grades from a company and all three were from the same subjective standard, you know that the book could in fact get that grade again; so show any label you wish (obviously the high one). That comparison is not apples to apples with the current issue.

8 years ago

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