CBCS Sales Value vs. CGC Sales Value34
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You also can't discount the number of collectors (or dealers) who 'know' how to grade and either will or won't bid on a book based on the way it presents in the holder. | ||
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thirdgreenham private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Roy, did you choose that username on purpose? | ||
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Ditch_Fahrenheit private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by thirdgreenham lol He's a Noob  |
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Ditch_Fahrenheit I was rushing this morning because I had to drive Lou to work, but it does seem like a cool name doesn't it? And because I'm a noob to comic message forums.  |
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Deckard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS grading is on point and fine. I have been doing this since the 80's. And reality is they were the innovator and leader with respect to casing/slabs. How many years did we have to endure corner bends/dings along with front or back cover side creases due to the comic not being pinched properly or outright floating/moving inside the inner well. In terms of price variance between the two different slabs. Some of that can be attributed purely to key word search by the end user. Prospective buyers are not even aware that a CBCS slab is available in the particular comic they might be seeking to buy. And when it comes to bidding style auctions as we have seen on CL and eBay, anything and any end price is possible. You could have the same graded CGC slab in a 30-60 day window with sale prices and variance easily of 10%-20%. On a $500 comic that is allot of coin. Also who the seller is plays a role in the price outcome. For BINs, take a look at mycomicshop or bidding style auctions with sparklecity. They have well capitalized buyers who follow them and their comics will typically sell for a big market premium Also depending on which specific slab/comic you are talking about and page quality, there are issues of market timing and liquidity that come in play as well. I can tell you this is a very exciting time to be here from day 1. Many years ago now, I got in at the ground level on the action figure authority. At that time, people did not even want the end slabbed product, nor did they understand it. But over a short period of a few years it went the other way. I was scooping up high grade NM MISB slabbed 70's/80's toys at the same price and much less than what raw pieces were going for. No difference here -- this is an arbitrage type opportunity here with money being left on the table. |
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Ditch_Fahrenheit private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VintageComics I get VintRage when I'm outbit.  |
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thirdgreenham private msg quote post Address this user | |
| On the subject of CBCS vs CGC, I think that both companies are close. You will see a book every once in a while where you scratch your head and wonder how the hell did they call this a "blah". Mind you, you will see that from both companies. From personal experience submitting, I think that CBCS is a tad looser on earlier books (gold/silver), and a tad stricter on the recent moderns. When I price my books for sale, I will price either company's at the same value. I really don't believe that there is a lesser product here. From experience, in auction, my CGC books, tend to have sold for a bit more than the CBCS ones. These were semi-desirable books, but not mega-keys. The difference was not great. I think that it's obvious that CGC has the upper hand, only because of the time that they have already had in this market, and therefore still hold the greater market share. CBCS will scratch away at this market value as they get some time on their side and education continues with the collectors out their. My suggestion to CBCS is to allow a larger budget towards having a presence at every large show that comes up. Making that effort to get right into the people's faces is what it's going to take to make themselves known. Otherwise, the wait to be a big, big player could be a long one. 2c Andy |
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Owen_Lorder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by The_Watcher Fixed  |
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netherxvoid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| few thoughts on the matter. I think one thing that could make a difference is the buyers preexisting collection. What i mean by that is lets say someone is collecting an ASM McFarlane run in a 9.6 or better and they have 20 books all cgc'ed, why start with another company? similarly something cc has is the long lasting set registry which to some is just a you know what measuring contest. Being a comic/gaming store employee for many years and now an owner I can first hand tell you people new to the industry are very turned off with cgc's customer service top to bottom. I was extremely happy to now be able to announce to my customers we are a dealer account here with cbcs and looking forward to promoting them. I believe its only a matter of time before its 50/50 split on preference. As long as cbcs continues on the this path. Lastly I agree with the member who stated that cbcs would grow from having a stronger presence at shows and cons to in a way assert the authority and respectability. |
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427Impaler private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just this morning recieved my first batch of CBCS books (7 in total). First feedback is the packaging was excellent, totally bulletproof. After reviewing all the books I would have to say that the grading was right on the money, if not a little tight. As a test subject I deslabbed a CGC book that was just graded and sent it in, came back with exactly the same grade. I would have to say my first experience with CBCS was great. |
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Buzzetta private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have noticed that restored books in a CBCS holder tend to do better than their CGC counterparts. I see two reasons for this: 1 - The universal color of the label. (No PLOD) 2 - Buyers are unaware and simply look at the number rather than the label notations. |
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Deckard private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 427Impaler I am hearing this from multiple individuals. |
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FForFake private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My completely unscientific and random observations have indicated that CBCS books, with the exceptions of keys, have been selling for less than their CGC counterparts. My equally unscientific and random impression from seeing CBCS slabs in hand is that the grading is right on. I think any disparity in value is simply a matter of CBCS being so new. CGC has been around a long time now, and they have been considered the industry standard for sometime. It will take awhile for CBCS to get there. Therefore, my instinct is BUY CBCS BOOKS NOW! Wish I had a chunk of change to sink into them at the moment, instead of a few random books here and there. That being said, I think that this forum is a HUGE step in the direction of making the CBCS more popular. CGC has built a community. This forum can help CBCS truly do the same. If people are talking, sharing, buying, selling and LIVING in the CBCS world on a daily basis, it will do a lot to build a community, and word of mouth for the brand. |
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Owen_Lorder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| alot of it has to do with marketing/PR, not just "who's the better grader" Does CBCS has Stan? Or does he only do the other guys now I think that photo Ops with famous creators/celebrities signing CBCS graded books is great too Also, one cant forget that the biggest selling comic recently was Action #1, which was a big boost to the other guys. |
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Designer_Toast private msg quote post Address this user | |
| All of the CBCS books I've sold, some as recent as last month, did GPA or better. | ||
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manwithoutfear private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What is considered a 'substantial commercial engagement' as per the Forum rules? | ||
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BronzeAgeBaby private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Soooo that Bronze Age Key (MSE #15 @ 9.2) just sold for 245$ April 3rd a CGC 9.2 sold for 193+10 shipping March 24th a CGC 9.4 sold for 270+15 sipping I'd say that's pretty solid. |
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Deckard This has happened on multiple occasions that I know of. Especially on hard books. Like a TTA 35 9.2...came back the same grade |
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427Impaler private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Good to hear people are seemingly getting strong sales results. Several of the books I just had CBCS graded are dupes that are heading straight to Ebay. I'll let you know how it goes. | ||
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by FForFake The amount of money people spend is all based on their confidence level in the product they are buying. That is the market that the Cerfication companies have created. People generally pay more for certified books than for uncertified books because they are more confident in what they are getting. If there is a disparity between dollar amounts betweeen books within a certain grade but from different certification companies, that is because there is less confidence in one item than the other. Confidence for slabbed books can be attributed to familiarity (new company), grading standards (does each company do something differently), loyalty (some may have loyalty towards one company over another), who the seller is (some sellers might attract more or less buyers because of reputation) and many other possible reasons. It's my opinion that for a certification company to gain market share, focusing on customer perception is the only way to establish a market for themselves. If customers think you grade accurately, they will buy your product. Most of the value of expensive certified books goes into how people feel about the given grade. If a customer likes the way your product looks and feels, they will buy your product. To me the holder/label combination is secondary but also important. And I feel there is an inverted relationship between actual cost of the book and how much emphasis people put on the appearance of the actual product. It becomes more important for less expensive books how the product looks and feels, because more value is placed on the actual presentation than the actual grade of the book itself. Thirdly, the selling forum will also dictate price a lot. If a book is being auctioned off, prices may vary widely compared to fixed sales. If it's a tougher book that sells for a lot regardless of grade (like low grade GA keys) the market will be much more aggressive on that sort of book than on a more common book. And these different markets will also have different sorts of buying pools. You will have more mature buyers going after less common books than the buying pool for more common or newer books. The bidding pool also affects the market. Finally, if a customer feels like they are supporting a good company, they will buy your product. While there are buyers who will deal with unscrupulous people (and there are many in every industry, not just in comics) the majority of people would prefer to deal with an ethical company and one that listens to it's customers. My personal opinion is that CBCS came out of the gate with some great ideas but a few things initially hindered either customer's perception of quality or their actual product. Because of that, initially CBCS books did seem to sell for less in the open auction market. We all know that Steve Borock is a competent grader and also, just as importantly big on offering customer service. I also know that some of the people who play the supporting cast at CBCS are good people and so I expect them to put out a terrific product and for the market to value them accordingly. |
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VintageComics +1 |
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1Cool private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've been monitoring the CGC / CBCS comparison (especially when it comes to similar grades selling on ComicLink auctions) and CGC books typically get 5-10% higher prices compared to CBCS. There has been some exceptions but that is what I have seen. That may be because ComicLink is probably 85-90% CGC slabs so people may not be use to seeing the new slabs and this could change. I personally like the look of the CGC slab a bit better so I tend to continue to only send books to them to grade (and the extra 5-10% resale value doesn't hurt). And up until now CBCS slabs did not have a sales venue comparable to the CGC message boards so I felt it was limiting to get CBCS slabs. |
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 1Cool The launching of these CBCS boards was a big step in the growth of the company, and the eventual launch of a specific sales forum for raw and CBCS books will be the next big step for CBCS, as there will be a lot more traffic to the site and trusted buyers and collectors being able to buy and sell CBCS books to one another. |
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Sqeggs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Buzzetta I think there is a third reason. Again, I'm going on scattered personal observations and what dealers have told me. CBCS seems to be taking a more lenient view of grades on restored books. Major problems -- trimming, married cf, piece replacement -- seem to result in larger dings to the apparent grade with CGC than with CBCS. Nothing the matter with CBCS taking a different position on how to grade these books, but I think it's worth acknowledging that they do seem to be grading these books differently than CGC has historically. |
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 1Cool As a collector, you can't overstate visual eye appeal of both the label and the holder. It's half the battle, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Collectors want it to look good. |
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the CBCS holder is every bit as good as CGCs last holder type (not the newer one). I haven't seen or held a new CGC holder to really make an informed opinion. |
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by zosocane This! |
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Makeminemego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the two grading companies are pretty close with regards to grading. As a collector who buys mostly 3.5-6.0 SA books, I see just as many "head scratchers" from CGC as CBCS. I think CGC MIGHT put a little more emphasis on overall eye appeal, whereas CBCS tends to weight technically graded defects a little bit heavier (chipping, sub creases). CBCS has-only speaking from my experience-a more consistent, yet more liberally applied PQ standard. PQ has become a crapshoot with CGC, and even though I may not agree with every CBCS PQ rating I've seen, they've been consistent across the board. Just my opinions. |
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by FForFake All of this. |
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Beige private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have subbed books with CBCS and have nothing but praise for their service, turnaround times and slabs. Their grading appears to be the same 'standard' of CGC. I'm glad to see the market is appreciating CBCS as a genuine equal to CGC and demand for their slabbed books continues to grow. I would hope Steve and West's company gets the respect it deserves as it continues to grow. |
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