CBCS Sales Value vs. CGC Sales Value34
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Sqeggs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by The_Watcher Not meaning to bash anyone. I was just curious as to whether CBCS would take the opportunity of the chat forum starting to address what many people see as the key issue regarding their grading: CBCS is giving books higher grades than CGC does. I would be interested in seeing their thoughts on the issue, and I'm sure a ton of other people would as well. But if they don't want to discuss that perception of their grading or don't want to discuss it here, that's fine. |
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Iceman399 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CFP_Comics I would say the same and there are a couple reasons I can attribute to in my dealings: Non key books means they are likely working on a run in a certain grade(s). Many collectors are OCD and if they have issue 1,2,4,5,6 in CGC they likely want to find an issue 3 in CGC so they can add it to their registry. Once CBCS gets moving on their registry etc I think this will level off. I've had very little difficulty moving CBCS keys especially once you inform a new buyer of the pros and cons to each company and inform them of the history. |
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The_Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sqeggs You misinterpreted my post. It CAN be talked about as long as the discussion is civil and doesn't get personal. These rules apply to any topic, not just this one. I just took this opportunity to put it out there |
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Shark private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Iceman399 Exactly. I'm still working on completing my CGC slabbed set of Journey Into Mystery V2 and only need 3 more to complete my 19 issue set. My preference is to get these 3 in CGC slabs although I might consider CBCS slabs if I can't locate the CGC ones in the near future. |
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1Cool private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Definitely refreshing to be able to discuss this issue without having to worry about the thread being erased. | ||
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Oldbsturgeon private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 1Coolabsolutely and good to see you here |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sqeggs Sqeggs, I pretty much always agree with you on the other forum, but I'm not sure I agree that CBCS is giving books higher grades than CGC does. The consensus opinion is that CGC is in an unfairly "tight" grading period right now, with many books coming in about .5 lower than they should be. I think CBCS is grading right at where the books should be, based on what I'm getting back. In that sense, yes, CBCS is giving books her grades than CGC does, but only because CGC (my opinion) is grading books too tightly. Having said that, I've also seen CBCS hammer a couple of my books on technical things and come back, I think, harder than what CGC would do. All in all, I don't think there's a lot of difference with the two companies, although I do hope CGC self-corrects its current tight grading. PS, it's great to mention both companies freely in this thread.  |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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manwithoutfear private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by zosocane I have to agree. I don't see gift grades from CBCS. I think their grading is more accurate with my own standard. CGC is far too tight. I don't have a single CBCS slab that I disagree with at the moment. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Sqeggs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by manwithoutfear In a sense it doesn't matter whether CBCS is being too loose or CGC is being too tight. The result is the same: The CBCS grade will be higher than the CGC grade. So, in terms of the OP's question, if there is a gap in the grades, you would expect that, say, a CBCS IH 1 6.0 would sell for less than a CGC IH 1 6.0, which I think is what we see happening. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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BronzeAgeBaby private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Took some books in from my last batch to my LCS. Thankfully I've got a great relationship with the manager and we went over them and discussed for roughly an hour. AT FIRST he felt things were over graded as he was able to see certain things on the books that sent a red flag up given the grade. After he looked them all over (took 6 books in) and looking through grading notes he wasn't all that fussed. By the time our conversation was over he felt that the grading was essentially spot on and the "same difference" in things he saw in CBCS books as with CGC books. In working a deal there was not even a thought on price difference or anything like that. We looked at Ebay sales, his own tracker, as well as the 60 day avgs (and there was no distinction made between companies in regards to price). He gave me straight up trade value and more than fair in cash value for the others. I'm seeing SOME instances of CBCS going for lower simply because of two things IMO: People simply don't know, and others do and are trying to get the books while they can. OTOH I've got a Bronze Age Key book up right now with a purposeful higher price with best offer. The attention it is already getting will put the final sale WELL above the recent Ebay sales for equivalent raw and GCG books. |
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sqeggs OK, I see your point. Yes, agree that is the case ... for now. In time, that should change where the same two books will sell for the same amount. As for the difference in market value today, that's a natural reaction to the market having accepted CGC as the bellwether grading company of the last 15 or so years. CBCS still needs a few more years to build up its label and market recognition and thus credibility. I have submitted enough with CBCS that I have confidence in the quality of their grading process and the rendered grade, so that when I buy, I really don't stress about the assigned grade. (PGX, I stress.) Then we will see values for slabs between the two firms narrow. At some point CGC needs to decide if they're going to continue their current tough grading posture (and risk losing customers) or retreat to the pre-2014 period. Not a coincidence that this tight grading period at CGC started shortly after CBCS hit the scene. CGC has also responded to CBCS' arrival in other ways, with grader notes and new slabs that look quite similar to CBCS'. (Innovation and a willingness to change to serve clients' needs is a good thing and certainly healthy for two high quality grading firms, which is good for the health of the market.) |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not having yet gotten a CBCS slab, and going to do my first ever submission, I am weighing both companies. It's really hard to decide who I want to go with, but great to have resources such as this thread to take into consideration |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| At the Emerald city comic con I came across the CBCS stand and submitted my first two books to them. They were friendly and knew exactly what the books were worth for insurance purposes. So I'm eagerly waiting to see the grades and the look of the books in their slabs | ||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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Mijael private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sqeggs You hit the nail , CGC is more strict with the grading so a lot of people trust and pays more for a CGC slab |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm sure whatever it was you got me was perfect.
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PhantomEwan private msg quote post Address this user | |
So has anyone noticed if a CBCS  Grade has a noticeable effect on the price? |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sqeggs I believe that CBCS and CGC grade books out on a pretty level playing field. I also think it is a bit ridiculous for people to judge either company's grading standards by LOOKING at books that are in plastic tombs.Formulating one's opinion on that basis is inherently flawed. What I do see, as Joe/CFP noted, is that CBCS graded keys tend to realize equal prices as CGC graded keys.More recent books i.e. a Hero For Hire #1 CBCS 6.0, may catch 10% less than a CGC 6.0..... CBCS graded copper and moderns tend to realize less on average than similiar CGC graded books. I think that is a byproduct of two things. 1) Public perception of CBCS has not reached the level of CGC's public perception.Reason being that CBCS is not as established as CGC is, in the hobby.It has nothing to do with either company grading tighter than one another. It does not benefit CBCS to grade books loosely, in any possible way.Doing so would only hurt CBCS's standing in the industry.Borock is not going to shoot his company in the foot by doling out gift grades. CBCS's graders are on equal footing with CGC's graders, on all accounts.Compare the background summaries given on CBCS and CGC graders, on their respective sites and that is plain to see. That said, the graders at CBCS are every bit as competent as the graders at CGC. 2) CGC registry set collectors go after CGC graded books because they want to complete their CGC Registry sets. |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I haven't noticed any difference in grading. One CBCS book I sold made me over CGC realized prices at the time. I have a few CGC slabs and, honestly, think they are slightly over-graded. My CBCS books got exactly what I expected (and what I would have expected from CGC). I honestly don't really care what others think. I choose CBCS for my own reasons not and do not worry about whether or not others want to pay as much or more than CGC books. I believe it is only a matter of time before CBCS owns a larger portion of the market. They have caught on really fast in my region and people have every bit the same respect for CBCS graded books as they do CGC. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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Ditch_Fahrenheit private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Personally, I haven't seen a significant delta between grades from the two companies (given normal variances for subjective grading). I also do not believe that this supposed delta is a shared belief within the majority of the market place. I DO believe there are deltas within the comic book value curve with regard to realized sale prices; not super significant, but they are there. This is hardly surprising given a new market entrant who is offering an alternative product against an entrenched competitor with years and years of basically unchallenged market dominance. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well said. I think that is going to be the gist of it really, just time going by and hopefully a steady firm quality being handed out. I am interested to see how the ASP program works. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've submitted books to both companies and I can say that CBCS is on par with the grades I thought they should get. CGC in recent months has been tight to the point of being wrong in my opinion. In some case .5 to a whole grade off from a higher grade. I think CBCS is right on track with grading and i'd let Steve and team grade my books any time. |
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 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My experience has been that CBCS is very even handed with grades. If there is a variation up or down, it's probably deserved. I've sent in both raw and CGC graded books so I can vouch for the overall consistency. Both companies grade pretty tight, perhaps tighter on GA in one or two areas than I'd like, but that's why reputable 3rd party grading is the best arbiter. Turn around times are comparable to CGC and CBCS holders & labels are well designed. What will be interesting to see is whether future census data between the two companies can be collected and correlated since grade bump resubmissions have prompted questions about the accuracy of census info for years. |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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PovRow private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Mijael There is a difference between being "more strict" and "more accurate". I think the difference between what each label realizes monetarily for like books will continue to dwindle as CBCS gets more known and better understood. |
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Marc_1 +1. |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by zosocane I believe it depends on the grade ranges you are talking about. There was definitely a loose period when CBCS opened up for higher grade Silver Age, which is the area that I tend to focus on most. I don't know how long it went on for but I noticed it over many sample sizes of books that I looked at while perusing at various shows. CBCS grading seems to have tightened up a bit since then. On the flip side, it seemed that CGC was a little more loose in the mid grade area than CBCS. Again, just my perception. |
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gyro private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think since grading is subjective and more so the less the grade that it is important to look at it in 9.8 grades bronze and older to compare -------- Regarding values again you have to compare not so much what the book sells for but the # of people chasing the book that are willing to try something new -- I am not sure how long it will take for this to equalize ? |
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You also can't discount the number of collectors (or dealers) who 'know' how to grade and either will or won't bid on a book based on the way it presents in the holder. | ||
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thirdgreenham private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Roy, did you choose that username on purpose? | ||
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Ditch_Fahrenheit private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by thirdgreenham lol He's a Noob |
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VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Ditch_Fahrenheit I was rushing this morning because I had to drive Lou to work, but it does seem like a cool name doesn't it? And because I'm a noob to comic message forums.  |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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Deckard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS grading is on point and fine. I have been doing this since the 80's. And reality is they were the innovator and leader with respect to casing/slabs. How many years did we have to endure corner bends/dings along with front or back cover side creases due to the comic not being pinched properly or outright floating/moving inside the inner well. In terms of price variance between the two different slabs. Some of that can be attributed purely to key word search by the end user. Prospective buyers are not even aware that a CBCS slab is available in the particular comic they might be seeking to buy. And when it comes to bidding style auctions as we have seen on CL and eBay, anything and any end price is possible. You could have the same graded CGC slab in a 30-60 day window with sale prices and variance easily of 10%-20%. On a $500 comic that is allot of coin. Also who the seller is plays a role in the price outcome. For BINs, take a look at mycomicshop or bidding style auctions with sparklecity. They have well capitalized buyers who follow them and their comics will typically sell for a big market premium Also depending on which specific slab/comic you are talking about and page quality, there are issues of market timing and liquidity that come in play as well. I can tell you this is a very exciting time to be here from day 1. Many years ago now, I got in at the ground level on the action figure authority. At that time, people did not even want the end slabbed product, nor did they understand it. But over a short period of a few years it went the other way. I was scooping up high grade NM MISB slabbed 70's/80's toys at the same price and much less than what raw pieces were going for. No difference here -- this is an arbitrage type opportunity here with money being left on the table. |
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