GPA vs GoCollect, Nostomania2997
 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Rather than quote this and hijack a thread, I felt that I should carry the quote (below) to a new one for exploration. For a while now I have felt that GPA was/is "in bed" with CGC and their own interests for various reasons (mostly the exclusive reporting of CGC ONLY), and their popularity (and price!) astounds me given the nature of their business model. However, my knowledge of them is limited as I have never paid them a dime. Am I wrong to look at them sideways? Integrity aside, in comparison I feel all three are lacking: - I use Nostomania. They report Raw, CBCS, CGC and even PGX all the way from .1 to 10 (but do not farm ebay data yet, only the other avenues). Charts and market reports are great. Data is limited due to the ebay issue, the site feels like 1999, and its not always up to date on modern variants, but I have to go with the site that gives me ungraded/raw values and a registry for my books that gives me instant market reports on my collection, listed in raw pgx cbcs or cgc. Price is $35.88 per year - Gocollect Looks great, modern, but does not report Raw nor PGX (but does farm ebay). Market and chart reporting seem quite nice. They do have a registry, but I've never used it so not sure. They seem to be diligent in capturing shill bids, and throw them into an "outlier" category (3 standard deviation dump) Price is $71.88 per year - GPA From what I understand the market reports and charts are good, but only report CGC grades and sales so they are severely limited. From what I have heard elsewhere, they are diligent in deleting suspected "shill" bids (someone said they list them on the site, but I have no firsthand knowledge). They do have a registry, but again limited to CGC pricing. Price is $119 per year Ideally, Nostomania buys out GoCollect or vice versa and we have a perfect choice  . Thoughts? Am I missing a company that is worthy of mention here?EDIT addition suggestion from @deadpoolica - ComicsMV all graded books from multiple sites compiled into one data pool sortable by book, grade, dates sold. I don't see any action against shill bids, and I think they are counting eBay best offers as full price. yearly cost FREE Quote: Originally Posted by BLBcomics *I understand there could potentially be some hot issues that arise from this, so please keep it civil; I'm looking forward to the forum input  |
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 Collector
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Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The service IS called GPAnalysis for CGC Comics after all. I'm guessing it is a business deal between the two and should be viewed as a good place to value CGC slabs. I don't like the fact though that their info sources are a bit limited. Private sales on boards like this and CGC are hard to track but not as hard as you think. Other auction sites exist. I'd like a list with pricing combining RAWs, CGC, PGX and CGC. etc. |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Agreed, this is what I get at Nosto. There's not much data to be gotten from the smaller auction sites for CBCS so this chart is definitely off in that column; Getting GoCollect's ebay data farm into it would be amazing   |
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 Collector
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Deadpoolica private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If you're looking for graded sales only (CGC, CBCS, pgx) I suggest comicsmv.com they pull sales data from eBay, heritage, comiclink, comicconnect & a few others. Gives you sales figures, charts, graphs, average price for 1,3,6 month & more...it's all free as well. | ||
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 Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Friends, Collectors, Countrymen, Let us gather to place ShrewBeer's posting in to proper context. Without the Mad Professor stirring the Brew (Beer?) melting Plaz one does not to get to feel like Woozy in the background wondering what might be The Haps in the ever-increasingly manipulated world of latest "Up to the Second" Pricing algorithms necessary to supposedly compete in Today's Mad Marketplace TMM (tm) is a farce in that NONE of these services provide a Big Inclusive Picture (BIP) by virtue being such a task (feat) is humanly impossible to EVER achieve. There have been some of us trying to achieve same for many decades now. Some eventually simply drink their own Kool Aide and end up Lost in the Ozone thinking they have achieved Great Wealth because some firm seeking one's club membership dues by virtue of prices need to continuously keep rising. Think about that for a sec. Who would pay to learn their collections are going down in value? GPA of course says in their promo propaganda they aggressively weed out "shill" data. Mayhaps we should all meditate sage words from Comics Guru Walt Kelly whom many a Lost Comics Soul probably no longer remember was once a vibrant force in our world. He died about a year after I co-opened my first comic book store Comics & Comix in late 1972 back when that concept was so utterly alien the City of Berkeley Police Dept had tapped our phones for months, even placed "plainclothes" undercover types inside to study this strange phenom then unfolding of hundreds of UC-Berkeley students and other subversives streaming in & out all excited about their various comics character favorites. They had gotten themselves convinced we HAD to be a major money laundering illicit pharma smuggling outlet. But I digress..... A decade later a Berkeley police Lieutenant and I were laughing at their then absolute convictions...  |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Deadpoolica Great site! I'd love it if they would show charts for sales price over time, or be able to sort by grading company; but for free, that's quite awesome. |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shrewbeer, unless I'm reading it wrong, that chart looks whacked out. Does it truly suggest that that book basically commands the same price in 9.2 or lower regardless of whether it is raw or graded, and regardless of who does the grading? What am I missing? | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jrs Looks to me that this particular book levels out as you described at 6.5 |
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Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| http://comicsmv.com/lists/list-13-the-most-desirable-comic-book-variants This portion of http://comicsmv.com baffles me. Mayhaps I am getting to old to comprehend any more. |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BLBcomics same theory as collecting GA or SA books. How many are available in a particular grade versus demand for them. These are artificially rare (most of them are under 500 ever printed), but rare nonetheless |
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Collector
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Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's a stupid list affected by public voting of a very small sample size. it's worthless. | ||
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 Collector*
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics I like using them. They are free and a nice easy way to look up something at a convention. They don't have every book listed but they do have many of the books I have looked for in the past. For some reason the Eternity Evil Ernie books and any Lady Death books have never made it to the website. I guess, I'm the only one who enjoys them. Yes, I know that's 1990's dreck to some of you. |
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 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Off topic: I hate the term "artificially rare" (aka "manufactured collectible" ), because the thing is nowadays we respect our comics. We don't fold them up and stuff them into our back pockets anymore. We don't scribble stick figures on them, or use them as drink coasters, or any of the dozens of crazy things kids did to their comics in the golden age. We stuff them into plastic tombs and handle them lil plutonium. The truth is, nothing modern age will ever be rare ever again unless we intentionally make them rare. That's just how it is. And since we are addicts we will continue to buy them happily. :endrant: | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego totally understand and agree. However, not sure what to call it/ describe it…? I would define "organically rare" as what you described (people trashing them in various ways thus creating rarity). "Artificially rare" is just as good a rare as any rare lol, it just seems to describe what caused the rarity well | ||
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Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Seems to me all these price analysis sites cited so far strive for some level of competence but to me, my little humble opine, the task is virtually impossible due to the sheer size of the comics collecting world. To wit: I estimate some 90% of the comics collecting world is actually not in to the certification slab "game" The way I market my stuff for many years now is creator-based driven. Am much more concerned making sure what artists are contained in the earlier stuff I list out for sale. My "key word" use in my descriptions while of course seeking to spell out the defects, or even even more so lack thereof once I see some thing in VFNM 9.0 or better, seeks to explain why some one might not realize how cool any given funny book is to read. That all said, and I thank you younger guys here pausing to help teach this old dog "new" tricks of the trade, I was unaware of these sites per se. This comicsmv site shows promise to explore further which I am going to be doing thru the ensuing days of daze I stumble thru. I brought up the particular link I did because I also noticed it is four months old with no further updating that I can "see" It just seems to me the manufacture of "scarce rarity" limited edition S&N is like a Franklin Mint market platform which sucked a lot of souls in, but where are they now? I was at my first comicon in five years April 30 at Planet Comicon Kansas City taking Katy to say thank you to Neal Adams, Kevin Eastman and Jim Steranko who among quite a few other long time creator friends (for many decades now) contributed to her benefit auction comics guru Russ Cochran volunteered to host last Feb 2016 What I was struck was seemingly acres of boxes of slabbed comics sitting there - over priced it seemed - with no one looking. Just seems to me the business model direction scope of the hobby must needs revision of where all this is headed. But what do I know any more? The CGC cyber hit squad did a big attack dog destruction of me post Steve Borock leaving out of CGC. I continue to applaud CBCS entering the field restoring ethics in to this aspect of the comics business. For what ever that might be worth in the cosmic scheme of things   |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Agreed, except the impossible part. So far only one site has data for ungraded raw books but they are lacking in other areas. However, I'm sure they all are evolving, and at some point one of them will hit the nail on the head (hopefully!) |
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 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Interesting discussion and well thought out opinions on all sides. While I believe that the GPA model points the direction for future market driven collecting ...in respect to grades, contemporaneous sales data and fluctuations of market interest... GPA destroyed it's own credibility as a leader in this field by limiting it's auction and sales data coverage to CGC graded books. This is the equivalent of a single Wall Street brokerage pumping up their own partner's junk bond values while ignoring potentially conflicting data from reliable sources that reflect other market activity. IMO, this is both short-sighted and arguably disreputable activity. I dropped GPA months ago and will never recommend their services. While firmly believing we need a more modern system that reflects current market winners and losers, any analyst that fails to keep tabs on all available information and market activity (auctions & verified private sales) is of little use to the community. While we all love the OSG, it is nostalgia incarnate, an almanac, not a market forecaster. Whichever market analytical service can provide a one-stop shop for information ...of use to dealers, collectors, investors and public sector curiosity seekers on the fence about the viability of comics as a portfolio investment... will end up top dog. The others will likely fall by the wayside. It is essential that all currently available auction house data, including eBay auctions and sales, ComicLink auctions and sales, private sales of raw and graded books, and reports of available census data need to be covered. It's a tough job given that some established businesses view customer data as proprietory information, but that selfish interest, lacking justification, needs to be dispelled. The more available information, the better. With uniform analysis that's dependable the hobby will benefit from greater security and stability. |
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 Collector
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DLAComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Watching this...... | ||
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 Collector
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Thanatos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Deadpoolica Good to know, I've been using GoCollect (free trial with different emails) as needed and have subscribed to GPA a few months at a time. I'll definitely check this site out. Of the three you listed, I really enjoy the layout and function of GoCollect the most. |
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 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I used to use a combination of Comic COnnect, Comic Link, Heritage, anc Ebay completed sales (all free). Now I use GPA ($10 a month) and get the answers quicker. When there is little or no data in GPA I use ebay completed sales as my next source. |
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 COLLECTOR
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Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I use GPA. I do know they do actively weed out shill sales. The online communities do a pretty good job of sniffing out shilling and other suspect sales and reporting it. So the hobby does police itself to some degree which shows keeping its integrity intact is something a great majority of us value. | ||
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Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| eBay is a suspect "market maker" which I will attempt to explain from personal experiences which some may not realize. This is how they support aspects of "shilling" which takes on various forms Some months back I had been listing a Jack Kirby original for a friend at $2399.99. It sat until a fellow made an offer of $1700 which I then informed the owner of the offer. We had previously agreed I should make a couple hundred on it so when he agreed to the $1700 offer, and deduct for me, plus eBay FVF which is running around 12% maybe higher a bit plus a couple PayPal points leaving my friend to receive $1250 or so. So I go ahead and click on "sold" on the offer, the buyer pops the bucks in to PayPal and I proceed to wait. And wait I call the owner asking why the Kirby original had not been sent to me and he says to me I was a liar I actually said, "Huh?" Seems when an item is sold for below original asking price, eBay keeps the original higher price as its SOLD price. So I call up eBay Biz Reps and ask what the (heck) is going on here. He in turn explains eBay does it that way to accommodate sellers selling say $500 iPhones and a guy offers $400 which is accepted eBay auto says it sold for $500 so the NEXT buyer won't see it actually sold for $400 then offers say $350 or so. My response was eBay is shilling for sellers running a business platform that way. The eBqay rep's (to him brilliant) "solution" was why not show my consignment guy the PayPal payment of $1700 instead My response this time was "WHat The F***??? Are you serious? WHY would I show the consignment guy the data from the buyer?" or some thing to that effect and a bit stronger in words the CBCS Mod guys tell me they frown upon. AT that point I began a lot more intensive research in to this type of evidently very common eBay Biz practice Until the buyer leaves FEED BACK which says simply "best offer accepted" eBay does NOT inform in posted supposed sales records what the real LOWER price is/was. That is messed up to be very polite I ended up refunding the $1700 back to the buyer explaining to him pretty much what I typed here. My (former) friend STILL thinks what he SAW on that sold item page of $2399.99 rather than the very real $1700 it actually sold for. This utterly skews sales data reporting as I estimate 60% of my eBay buyers do not bother to leave feedback. This is just one level of supposed sales data others search around try to use when determining what supposed vales are when determining their purchase decisions This posting is now long enough, I tend to write em too long. There is more I can be going in to re sales compilation data the self proclaimed new experts claim to be on top of when in reality there are many ways such data is simply wrong before compilation even begins This is the first of quite a few reasons I use the word "impossible" these sales reporting sites can never be correct.  |
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BLBcomics wow, so your friend chose to believe you a liar and end the friendship rather than do 30 seconds of online research which would have verified that what you said was true and has always been the eBay policy on best offers? That's messed up. BTW, I agree that it's messed up that eBay won't reveal best offer prices. It makes it hard to research pricing on books that do not come to market as often as most. |
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Collector
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Thanatos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego That's one aspect I really like about GoCollect is that it shows you when a Best Offer was accepted and the actual sold price rather than the original listing price. It does suck for @BLBcomics that his friend didn't think the friendship was worth the time to investigate that transaction a little further. Hope the buyer was understanding and didn't leave you negative feedback because of the book owner's lack of trust. |
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Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yo Thantos and DarthLegos, I spent a few phone calls with eBay Reps on how I could show my consignor friend the actual sales price of 1700 eBay Rep could not help me. I wonder how GoCollect accumulate such actual data when eBay itself could not The eBay sales rep was apologizing to me. And, yes, the buyer was OK and never left neg feedback - he has been a decades long customer friend My consignor friend was beside himself thinking - based on what his eyes were telling him 2399.99 was the "sold" price. He even defriended me on Facebook. Oh, well, now more research how it all supposedly works |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ebay reps are usually dont know their way around the site, they are more often than not worthless. Screenshots of your ebay sales account showing him the sale price, forward the sold emails from ebay, and if all else fails give him your username/pwd and change the pwd once he sees the sale. Seems simple enough? |
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 Collector
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slym2none private msg quote post Address this user | |
| http://www.watchcount.com | ||
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Collector
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
| eBay used to show the best offer price (years ago), but changed its practice. It's a major issue for those trying to discern actual sales prices for buy-it-now auctions. | ||
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 COLLECTOR
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JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I dumped GPA for GoCollect a few months ago. It's basically Ebay data which goes back. It's cheaper then GPA and gets me some data which I can turn in my head to make an informed decision on what I want to bid on something. Having CBCS data is a plus and I have no use for the raw book data. I'm kind of old school on raws I will take Overstreet and pay a percentage of that depending on the title, condition , and how collectible the book is. | ||
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Collector
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The story I related above concerns Buy In Now Or Best Offer - has nothing to do with eBay Auctions which is a whole different level of sales records reporting ie being absolutely UpFront no Problems. This is above how Buy It Now or Make AN Offer is catalogued and stored. When one has an anchor store eBay has a specialized "pod" outside of Provo Utah. They are much more attuned to the site than your "normal" reps which normally i would agree don't know beyond rudimentary levels which can be most frustrating to the point of wanting to escape eBay crazy The sales pod reps there told me what I related above is S.O.P. for how such Best Offer Or Buy It Now sales are presented to every one. The $500 iPhone example above was from the eBay Rep as to WHY they do it the way I related. He - actually "they" as I made more than one phone call to them - all said what I related above is indeed their official policy which I learned about ONLY because the Kirby piece is (well, was) the ONLY consignment piece in my eBay store My friend who still owns the Kirby art is an old timer computer hacker UC-Berkeley from the 70s from long before there was an Internet for the rest of us. He also knows his stuff. He actually used to work for me in the 70s 80s in my Berkeley comic book stores He analyzed from several directions and it kept saying to him $2399.99 SOLD price - not the $1700 price it sold for via Buy It Now Or Best Offer. Maybe you guys got a bit confused with me not explaining this difference originally in enough detail? AUCTION sales are straight forward and easy as pie to catalog which is never in this equation - just for the record so any of those firms mentioned which are trying to offer data are SPot On re collecting recording such data |
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