Cover Damage2950
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 Collector
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J_Walker private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey all, first off this is my first post and I appreciate all the knowledge you drop on a daily basis. Just got back into collecting after a ~20 year hiatus and got fully hooked again. It's been fun catching up and reading all of the various posts, etc. Anyways, I'm curious to know your thoughts on what type of grade reduction the cover damage / notations would have if I submitted these two books (ASM 62 & 24). Particularly with the ASM #62, which has 3 numbers written in pen below the S in spider-man. It doesn't appear to be a date or anything like that, but I can't find many resources that talk about what this type of defect would have on an overall grade. Let's hypothetically say that without the pen marking it would fetch an 8.0. Would the ink bring it down to somewhere in the 6's or even less?  And for ASM #24, the ink is gone from a ~3/4 inch section of the cover due to a tape pull. I read that a missing piece of the cover greater than 1/2 inch would essentially bring the grade down to the Very Good range or worse. But technically a piece of the cover is not missing....just the ink....so I wasn't sure how that played into things. This is the only major defect on the book. Everything else looks great. So, similar to the first example, let's say this book without the tape pull would get a 7.5. Would this defect bring it all the way down to the very good range or worse?  Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks again. |
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 Collector
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The pen writing may not affect the grade at all if it's a receiving mark (vendors would write the date they received the comic on the cover like that for their own records). Not sure if that's what it is, but I can't think of what else it would be - usually when someone uses a comic for notes they write more and the comic is in rougher condition. The tape pull brings it down a solid point at least. That's a bad defect. Welcome back!!! |
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 CBCS Pressing
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SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by QuaBrot Yes, that is a code written by the newsstand. It usually means something along the lines of month/day/number of copies they received. It won't affect the grade unless it is placed in a horrible spot (like Spidey's face) or the book were in 9.8+ condition. |
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 Collector
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AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SteveRicketts Does the same apply to date stamps? Example:  Would that stamp affect the overall grade? |
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Collector
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| No, same as written date stamps. Probably less damage to the book than being written on. | ||
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 Collector
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @J_Walker Welcome aboard. I think that both books would be worthy of being graded. I would recommend having @SteveRicketts at CBCS press them first. | ||
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Collector
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J_Walker private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks all. Solid info as always. | ||
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 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SteveRicketts I Totally disagree. To me writing is writing regardless of who or why it was done. I feel the same way about date stamps. If I were looking for a particular book in a particular grade, it most certainly would not be one with writing on it. The same goes for mis-wrapped covers. I usually dock them .5 to a full point depending on the severity. I avoid Mis-Wraps like the plague regardless of grade. Oh.... BTW.... WELCOME BACK! |
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Collector
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944 I understand what you're saying, but the question isn't desirability but grade. Some people actually like the date stamp, to them it's part of comicdom history. To others, like you, it ruins the book. I hear both sides, but I do agree that since it is/was part of the process of how comics were sold it won't affect the actual grade. Miswrapped covers, double covers, missing Staples, and all those other printing or binding defects are also personal choice. While I'd much rather have a comic where the cover has the correct registration and no issues, the grade itself may not be affected. Interestingly in the stamp and coin collecting worlds those defects are sought after and worth much more! |
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 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944 i'm with you on that, but I understand both sides. I had a beautiful NM copy of thor 126, but the staples were clearly showing almost a half inch in on the front cover. It drove me crazy, I thought it was ugly as sin, and I had no problem letting the book go for VF money. Someone who didn't mind that got themselves a good deal on a "NM" book! Growing up one of my buddies looooved big women. The bigger the better. He could walk into any bar and pick up the most beautiful woman (in his eyes) in there with 100% success rate. We called him the luckiest man alive. Some of what most see as defects can be seen as a bonus to others, those are the lucky ones  |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Printing and Binding defects are one thing, in which personal preference and tolerance is expected. Any outside writing makes the book less desirable to me and that includes autographs. The book has been defaced. While I agree a book can carry a certain grade, but I also think it should carry a qualifier (Writing, ink Marking, etc..) |
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 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There is a qualifier, the yellow or red label noting a valid signature. Minus that a signature is treated as writing. | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego The Yellow and Red labels are specific to Signature/Autograph verification ONLY and DO NOT address general writing such as date stamps or ink writing as seen and discussed with the ASM #62 that was posted Quote: Originally Posted by SteveRicketts In the case of the ASM #62 book, the grade is not effected and the book ends up in a "Normal/Universal" slab with No mention of the writing. While it may not effect the grade I would want that grade to reflect the writing with some kind of qualifier mark.. 8.0* possibly. This becomes even more important to me if the writing is inside the book where it can not be detected visually. Interesting that it would effect the 9.8 Grade as a flaw, but not any of the other grades. I need to know if there is ANY writing inside or Outside. If so I would choose not to pursue that particular book, and if the writing doesn't effect the grade, does it even end up in the Grader Notes? |
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Writing on the interior would always be treated as a defect and noted as such. It is not the same thing as a cover date stamp/marking. The reason a date stamp won't count against a book below a certain grade is because of how common they were on books of that era. And when you can clearly see it on the cover of the book, why do you need a special notation on the label? As far as signatures go, this is one of those things that if you don't want them, simply don't buy them. But people who value the signature as collectable should not be getting a grade hit off their yellow and red labels just to satisfy those who do not value them. That would be like me demanding that McDonald's never serve pickles because I personally think they destroy the taste of a good burger.  |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego You totally missed the point here. I recognize the popularity of the Signature/Autograph portion of the hobby. The Yellow/Red labels SOLE purpose is for the verification of the Signatures and Autographs, NOT weather or not "Little Timmy" wrote his birthdate on the back cover or filled out a coupon on the inside pages. Nowhere did I state that I wanted anything to change in regards to the Yellow and Red Signature Verification labels. Obviously I am not buying Yellow/Red label signature books and complaining they have writing on them. Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego #1 Its not always clear to see #2 Some unscrupulous online sellers hide it #3 Because I want to know if there's any writing on it Inside or Out. A perfect example. There's a older gentleman who cracks a lot of slabs on youtube for books he wants to add to his silverage collection. Many of you likely have seen "Cougar Comic" and his de-slabbing of books on you tube. He was none to happy after after cracking a high grade slab only to find that someone had used an ink pen to fill out one of the coupons in the book. Had he known that information he most definitely would have sought out a different book. CBCS uses a "Check Mark" as a note that certain books appear better for the grade. In the same vien they should have a symbol (Maybe a asterisk *) that notes any obscure writing on or in the book. At the VERY least ANY writing, drawing or markings should be noted in the "Grader Notes" Even if it doesn't "Effect" the grade(which to me it does, depending on severity) The very essence of "Professional Grading" is to make any and all relevant information about the book available and known to the collectors and hobbyists. |
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As far as I know, for CBCS, writing inside a book does effect the grade and is noted in the notes. | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 I'll eat my shirt if that was a CBCS book and the notes didnt say it  *Now someone needs to find that video  |
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 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Agreed...show me the video!! |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer IT was a CGC book. "Cougar Comics" has posted lots and lots of de-slabbing videos on you tube. I'll have to sift through them. And I found it. The Thor Book at 14:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxSAFjqbwrw |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944And that's why the choice is clear  |
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