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CBCS Graded

CBCS vs CGC Regrade Results 1st Wave2927

Collector mattness private msg quote post Address this user
Today I received the grades for my first set of 9.8 CGC slabs that I submitted to CBCS. None of these books were pressed. The grades are (4) 9.6's and (9) 9.8's

The 9.6 Notes:

tiny spine stress barely breaks color
tiny piece missing top left corner back cover

tiny spine wear some breaks color
tiny tear top edge back cover
tiny tear top edge back cover

tiny spine stress barely breaks color
light bend in logo

small light bend bottom edge back cover
small scuff top spine breaks color

I have 8 more CGC 9.8's in que. They are awaiting pressing ETA is unknown.

I feel really good to have cleansed my collection of CGC books. Am I bummed on the grade loss..yeah a little but they're still near mint and they're not for sale. They are for me.
Post 1 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
4/13 misgraded isn't too bad. Shows how much stricter CBCS grades.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Grayspeedster private msg quote post Address this user
My wife and I are so happy with the obviously better choice we made to go with CBCS!
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
This is a fascinating post. And data supports what many of us have felt. Cgc is just a machine that churns volume. Cbcs takes the time to really inspect hard. Bravo post due to the data
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector Mio private msg quote post Address this user
See my thread on consistency. 2 of 3 CBCS books graded down by CBCS.
Post 5 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
These were graded by CGC last year and graded by CBCS after the CGC slabs were determined to be terrible.

Amazing Spider-Man #129, CGC 9.4 --> CBCS 9.4
Dark Knight Returns #1, CGC 9.6 --> CBCS 9.4
Crisis on Infinite Earths #7, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
Daredevil #181, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
Dark Knight III: Master Race #1 Miller variant, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
Darth Vader #1 Alex Ross variant, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
New Teen Titans #2, CGC 9.6 --> CBCS 9.8
Omega Men #3, CGC 9.6 --> CBCS 9.8
Spectacular Spider-Man #1, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.6
Spectacular Spider-Man #27, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.6
Transformers #1, CGC 9.6 --> CBCS 9.6
Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #47 Merrymac variant CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.6
X-Men #129, CGC 9.4 --> CBCS 9.4
Uncanny X-Men #211, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
Uncanny X-Men #222, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.8
Uncanny X-Men #256, CGC 9.8 --> CBCS 9.6

Some went up and some went down, but overall the grading is probably consistent between the two, at least at the time I tried this experiment.
**edit** I don't think that the Teen Titans #2 should be a 9.8. I was thinking 9.6 or 9.4
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
4/13 misgraded isn't too bad. Shows how much stricter CBCS grades.


I'm now afraid to move the ones I have over to CBCS.....hehehe....

Do I really want my 9.6s becoming 9.4s, etc.....

:o)
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
There are times like these that I wish grading was done by some giant mathematical measuring device so that subjectivity was lessened
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
This is a fascinating post. And data supports what many of us have felt. Cgc is just a machine that churns volume. Cbcs takes the time to really inspect hard. Bravo post due to the data


Sorry... saying this more because statements like this bother the academic in me... this is a very tiny sample size and doesn't really prove anything one way or the other. To really do an accurate study of this, we need 100's, preferably thousands of books that have been changed out... preferably over time and showing the same consistent results.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drbearsec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
This is a fascinating post. And data supports what many of us have felt. Cgc is just a machine that churns volume. Cbcs takes the time to really inspect hard. Bravo post due to the data


Sorry... saying this more because statements like this bother the academic in me... this is a very tiny sample size and doesn't really prove anything one way or the other. To really do an accurate study of this, we need 100's, preferably thousands of books that have been changed out... preferably over time and showing the same consistent results.


13 is not statistically significant - agreed. 30 would be and I'm fine with data supporting the last 6 months (now) since now is all that matters for where I go for accurate grading. What happened 3 years ago or more is irrelevant as it pertains to the present time. But I agree another 17 would be better although I don't agree about thousands
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drbearsec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
This is a fascinating post. And data supports what many of us have felt. Cgc is just a machine that churns volume. Cbcs takes the time to really inspect hard. Bravo post due to the data


Sorry... saying this more because statements like this bother the academic in me... this is a very tiny sample size and doesn't really prove anything one way or the other. To really do an accurate study of this, we need 100's, preferably thousands of books that have been changed out... preferably over time and showing the same consistent results.


13 is not statistically significant - agreed. 30 would be and I'm fine with data supporting the last 6 months (now) since now is all that matters for where I go for accurate grading. What happened 3 years ago or more is irrelevant as it pertains to the present time. But I agree another 17 would be better although I don't agree about thousands


30 to me is still a small sample size. I'd say a min of 50 over 6 months to a year... I'd prefer a 100 to 200...

The unfortunate bias here is that there is no consistency on WHEN the CGC books are graded. A true test would be to get 50 to 100 books graded by CGC... submit 10 a week for 5-10 weeks. Then submit to CBCS for regrade.

Even better, do the same on the CBCS side... 10 a week to CBCS and then send to CGC for regrading. See how the comics changed between both groups. That to me gives the clearest indication of current grading standards.

Now anyone want to kick in the $2000-3000 or so to test the hypothesis?
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I would venture to say that if you or I sent 30 CGC graded books back to be graded by CGC, OR, 30 CBCS graded books back to CBCS, the results would be similar to what has been posted here. Some up and some down.

Which, if you think about it. Is consistency also.

Grading is ballpark, IMO. Like an umpires call on a pitch. More often right than wrong, but easy to dispute if it doesn't go your way.

The real question is: what difference does it make if your modern book is a 9.6 or a 9.8
Post 12 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
ok so let's add both of their data together and rerun the numbers for a better average
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I would venture to say that if you or I sent 30 CGC graded books back to be graded by CGC, OR, 30 CBCS graded books back to CBCS, the results would be similar to what has been posted here. Some up and some down.

Which, if you think about it. Is consistency also.

Grading is ballpark, IMO. Like an umpires call on a pitch. More often right than wrong, but easy to dispute if it doesn't go your way.

The real question is: what difference does it make if your modern book is a 9.6 or a 9.8


That's a really really really good point. 0.2 is like c'mon... who the heck can really tell. 0.2 is almost silly delta differential
Post 14 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Also consider how easy it can be to introduce defects during the process of deslabbing. The current atmosphere of the collecting community places too much emphasis on seeking 9.8. The premiums being sought on these versus 9.6 is bordering on ludicrous these days.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
The current atmosphere of the collecting community places too much emphasis on seeking 9.8. The premiums being sought on these versus 9.6 is bordering on ludicrous these days.


You got that right!
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
You have to consider handling of the books getting slabbed, removing the books from the slab, shipping. Tiny bends and dings can absolutely lower the grade. So unless the books were freshly pressed, I could see some books going down in grade if you were to cross grade high grade books CGC / CBCS or vice a versa.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Ive got a couple books Im currently trying to crossover to CBCS slabs. Obviously nobody wants to get a down grade.

I did place a Minimum grade at the CGC grades. Ive got my fingers crossed that both can pass. I likely would not have wasted money trying to cross, but the CGC case on the ASM #50 had some scuffs and wear and I really want it in a new slab. I really want them both to be in matching slabs so I sent AMS #51 as well.

I never seem to have much luck in these matters. My worst case scenario is that ASM #50(Scuffed case) does not pass and AMS #51(New Case) gets crossed.

Then not only will I not have matching cases, But still end up with ASM #50 in a scuffed case.

As for all the CGC vs CBCS stuff....... It's pretty pointless IMHO. Its really just comes down to personal preference of which slab you want to go with.

Truthful all TPGing is corrupt at some level...... Meaning certain clientele(Big Dealers/Money people) get preferential treatment and grades.

Here are the two books Im hoping to cross:




I can't figure out why the 2nd pic keeps posting horizontal

Does CBCS ever update the invoice status that books were received? I sent these books on the 5-16.

John (BigRedOne1944)
Post 18 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@BigRedOne1944 You do realize that the book must be removed for grading right? If it fails the grade screen you set you're getting back a raw book.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I would venture to say that if you or I sent 30 CGC graded books back to be graded by CGC, OR, 30 CBCS graded books back to CBCS, the results would be similar to what has been posted here. Some up and some down.

Which, if you think about it. Is consistency also.

Grading is ballpark, IMO. Like an umpires call on a pitch. More often right than wrong, but easy to dispute if it doesn't go your way.

The real question is: what difference does it make if your modern book is a 9.6 or a 9.8


If you are selling it? The difference between 9.6 and 9.8 can potentially be quite a bit.

If it is for your PC, then not as much until your heirs sell the comic... unless you are buried with it of course!
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I would venture to say that if you or I sent 30 CGC graded books back to be graded by CGC, OR, 30 CBCS graded books back to CBCS, the results would be similar to what has been posted here. Some up and some down.

Which, if you think about it. Is consistency also.

Grading is ballpark, IMO. Like an umpires call on a pitch. More often right than wrong, but easy to dispute if it doesn't go your way.

The real question is: what difference does it make if your modern book is a 9.6 or a 9.8


You might be right. But having the actual numbers vs making an assumption on a smaller sample size is always going to be better.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Also consider how easy it can be to introduce defects during the process of deslabbing. The current atmosphere of the collecting community places too much emphasis on seeking 9.8. The premiums being sought on these versus 9.6 is bordering on ludicrous these days.


However that is the dictation of the current marketplace and it DOES matter in current value of the books on a financial level. It could change of course... but I mean look at even the rare books of the last 30-35 years... Take TMNT 1... The 9.8 sold for 24K while the 9.6 sold for 10-11K. Over double the value for those .2 points. It DOES make a difference right now.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@BigRedOne1944 You do realize that the book must be removed for grading right? If it fails the grade screen you set you're getting back a raw book.


NO I did NOT realize that! That is not the way it works with TPGing sports Cards. They ONLY remove it after reviewing it and deeming it able to cross.

Do you know this first hand? Anybody Else send in slabbed books that did not pass and get back raw books?
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Drbearsec private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@BigRedOne1944 You do realize that the book must be removed for grading right? If it fails the grade screen you set you're getting back a raw book.


NO I did NOT realize that! That is not the way it works with TPGing sports Cards. They ONLY remove it after reviewing it and deeming it able to cross.

Do you know this first hand? Anybody Else send in slabbed books that did not pass and get back raw books?


That's correct. They remove the comic from the slab for pre-screening and if it doesn't hit your level, then they send it back non-slabbed.
Post 24 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944


Truthful all TPGing is corrupt at some level...... Meaning certain clientele(Big Dealers/Money people) get preferential treatment and grades.



Not really sure it's in good taste to tell a company who's forum your on that they are corrupt.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I think the 9.6/9.8 differential folks are mentioning was not a financial zing. Clearly there is major difference financially.
It was (I believe) intended to knock on how silly different financially the two are for what essentially imperceptible and a graders bad day (9.6) or good day (9.8). It's all quite crazy when 0.2 is clearly not absolute
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@BigRedOne1944 You do realize that the book must be removed for grading right? If it fails the grade screen you set you're getting back a raw book.


NO I did NOT realize that! That is not the way it works with TPGing sports Cards. They ONLY remove it after reviewing it and deeming it able to cross.

Do you know this first hand? Anybody Else send in slabbed books that did not pass and get back raw books?

Considering a trading card has only two sides it'd be far more reasonable to screen a card from the previous case.

If a comic book is missing a page, for example, that is not something you could tell from inside a slab and would certainly affect the pre-screen. Basically the interior of the book is a substantial part of the grade and no one can reasonably pre-screen a comic by just looking at it through the slab.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
@BigRedOne1944 I might suggest adding pressing to your order. It will double the turnaround time & obviously cost extra, but it would decrease the possibility of a grade drop.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@BigRedOne1944 You do realize that the book must be removed for grading right? If it fails the grade screen you set you're getting back a raw book.


NO I did NOT realize that! That is not the way it works with TPGing sports Cards. They ONLY remove it after reviewing it and deeming it able to cross.

Do you know this first hand? Anybody Else send in slabbed books that did not pass and get back raw books?

Considering a trading card has only two sides it'd be far more reasonable to screen a card from the previous case.

If a comic book is missing a page, for example, that is not something you could tell from inside a slab and would certainly affect the pre-screen. Basically the interior of the book is a substantial part of the grade and no one can reasonably pre-screen a comic by just looking at it through the slab.



I guess that's more than true. I just Email CBCS Customer service to request they Grade screen be removed for the invoice. I'll call first thing tomorrow as well. Hopefully their customer service is all everyone has claimed.

Thanks Guys
Post 29 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
My first wave of CGC regrades just shipped.

Book 1:
Blue Label
CGC 9.4 ... CBCS 9.4

Book 2:
Blue Label
CGC 9.6 ... CBCS 9.6

Book 3:
Yellow label
3 sigs, 2 with remark sketches
CGC 9.8 ... CBCS 9.8

WOOT WOOT!!!

P.S. No pressing was done.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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