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What does this mean?2862

Collector ComicE2 private msg quote post Address this user
What does this mean? stress some breaks color

I have sent in comics where I never taken them out of the bag or read them. I'v ordered from TFAW or Midtown most of the time.

I'v had comics graded and notes say "rubbing along spine back cover some breaks color"

And never even opened or read it. Just the digital copy.


This one was a keeper and i kept it in the bag and where it would not bend or be damaged. Made a sandwich cardboard to keep it safe and flat. But i got a 9.4 when i had it graded. But others get 9.6 or 9.8 that have worse quality. Im just trying to see what I'm doing wrong or how the grading process works. Or when buying comics what to look for. I mean are they reading each comic from the retailer before shipping. To say there's spin breaks on them when i didn't open the comic in its protective plastic case, is mind blowing.

Still have trust in CBCS but need to know the thinking of the graders ways. Or change my buying habits.
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
You may not have opened them but all the way back from production to distributor to comics being shipped to you stress on comics can occur. Buying new doesn't mean 9.8.

When buying from thaw/midtown/dcbs etc an element of luck is in play.
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Collector ComicE2 private msg quote post Address this user
Hmm that makes since. I wonder where they are being pressed at. Maybe i should make trips so theres no travel time. Just to the bag.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quite often, comics will get spine damage when an employee pulls them out of the distributor's box. They are packed pretty tightly to keep them from shifting. It can be difficult to get them out without denting the spines. It was so common for me to get dented spines when I ordered single copies that I would actually buy three of anything I preordered. It increased the odds of me getting a copy without any damage because there was a good chance the middle comic never got touched when the employee tried to get their fingers a starting spot to pull them out of the box. This can happen at the distributor or your local store.
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Collector ComicE2 private msg quote post Address this user
X51 great advice. Ya if i can i will try to do this. But comics are getting expensive and it hard to buy 3. And they rate there selling out. It hard to get one in most cases. But i will start this new process. I don't know how they do it at comic con when it so many people can just bump into them or just holding it. Well again still learning. But at least i know why i got the grade and not have to pay extra for it. Loving that part.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
You have to remember that the books are bundled raw into boxes from Diamond, the store has to pull them out of the box and then bag and board them for you. Considering everything they go through it really is a miracle we still get 9.8s by the time they get to us.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
If you can visit a store on the day they receive and process the orders, try and watch them struggle to get the comics out of the box. Some employees will take more care than others. They will have to reach in and grab a stack at some point. This is where damage typically occurs. The top copy is almost always damaged as the employee squeezes their fingers between the spine of the comics and the inside wall of the box.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Since I'm an old school collector that bought comics off of a spinner rack, I feel that the grading scale should not exceed the process capabilities of the printing process nor the distribution process. My views are not popular, but I feel that the quest for the perfect copy has caused a degradation of the collecting experience for people coming into the hobby. Collectors only want statistical anomalies now. Collectors buy new comics straight off the rack and they are deemed inferior. Grossly miswrapped comics can be deemed NM while brand new comics handled with reasonable care are considered VF. This is me just a mildly venting. I know it won't change anything.
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Collector ComicE2 private msg quote post Address this user
Ya, i understand. Im just trying to see and learn the process and art of comic grading. I know nothing can always be perfect. But it make you think seeing grades and u can tell the differences. But i guess in my case since i was nervous taking it out i would not of known of other issue maybe even inside the comic. But great point all around.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Collector obsession with 9.8s have made 9.6 and 9.4 copies cheaper to buy, so I'm ok with that.
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Collector obsession with 9.8s have made 9.6 and 9.4 copies cheaper to buy, so I'm ok with that.


GA collectors tend to worry less about such things.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quite often, comics will get spine damage when an employee pulls them out of the distributor's box. They are packed pretty tightly to keep them from shifting. It can be difficult to get them out without denting the spines. It was so common for me to get dented spines when I ordered single copies that I would actually buy three of anything I preordered. It increased the odds of me getting a copy without any damage because there was a good chance the middle comic never got touched when the employee tried to get their fingers a starting spot to pull them out of the box. This can happen at the distributor or your local store.


Diamond does not pack them tightly to avoid shifting. If you saw the way Diamond packs their books you would be surprised that anything above a 7.0 exists on the stands. They have the most deplorable packing I have ever seen.
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Collector martymann private msg quote post Address this user
Condition is truly in the eyes of the beholder...I fished
these raw out of a dealers box at a show and was surprised
at the grades they received.







mm
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@ComicE2 best way to learn is to inspect your books when you get them back. I've had some books that I swore were perfect, but on return had notes that made no sense as well. If you look carefully enough, you can find those defects, and then know what to look for in the future.

Example: I sent in a book that looked flawless. Came back with "light scuffing front cover" and "tiny spine stress does not break color". At first, second, and third look I could not find these defects. Then, I looked at it in different kinds of light (natural, flourecent, LED) and at different angles, and sure enough, after much searching there they were glaring at me. In my experience, CBCS does not miss defects, no matter how difficult it may be to see them.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector bennyb86 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Collector obsession with 9.8s have made 9.6 and 9.4 copies cheaper to buy, so I'm ok with that.
Amen. I'll happily take a 9.4 or 9.6 any day, those are still near MINT
Post 15 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Diamond is the WORST for staple rubs, spine rubs, corner blunts, and color breaking lines or "ticks" on spines.

It is what it is.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
The irony is, if everything from Diamond arrived pristine, then the second hand value of 9.8s would be much less.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Yep
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quite often, comics will get spine damage when an employee pulls them out of the distributor's box. They are packed pretty tightly to keep them from shifting. It can be difficult to get them out without denting the spines. It was so common for me to get dented spines when I ordered single copies that I would actually buy three of anything I preordered. It increased the odds of me getting a copy without any damage because there was a good chance the middle comic never got touched when the employee tried to get their fingers a starting spot to pull them out of the box. This can happen at the distributor or your local store.


Diamond does not pack them tightly to avoid shifting. If you saw the way Diamond packs their books you would be surprised that anything above a 7.0 exists on the stands. They have the most deplorable packing I have ever seen.


I realize that the distribution center repackages comics in haphazard ways. I was mainly referencing the full comic cases that come from the printer. A Diamond employee has to get the comics out of those boxes to fill the orders for the stores. Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I remember in the old days (the 90's LOL!) when stores actually ordered multiples of full cases at the local level. I remember seeing the comics get spine damage while being pulled out of sealed cases. Even if an employee tries to take care and treat them carefully, it's a tricky task.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by martymann
Condition is truly in the eyes of the beholder...I fished
these raw out of a dealers box at a show and was surprised
at the grades they received.(snip)
mm


The condition is always better if you be holding them and not letting someone else do it.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Here is a chart taken from the book "Quality Planning and Analysis" bt J.M. Juran & Frank M. Gryna:




As you approach 100% perfection, the cost to achieve that goal spikes upwards towards infinity. The value of a 10.0 is relative to the cost it takes to achieve that level of quality. It doesn't matter what the book is. You are paying for the extra care it takes to produce the product to a high level of perfection as well as all the scrap and financial waste in the process for the failed efforts.

My employer used to buy small electrical components that cost the company $1,000 a piece. I asked an engineer why it cost so much for the part. It had some copper and gold in it, but surely not $1,000 worth. He then explained that it had some very critical electrical specifications that had to be met and only one out of ten manufactured would achieve the required specification. We were really paying for ten piece and getting one. The losses the manufacturer took on the other 9 had to be passed along through the price of the one they were able to sell us.

As a hobby, the pursuit of the perfect comic is causing stores to send back fully functional comics that someone might like to read or own. The cost of those rejected comics feeds back into the cover price of what a new comic will cost us at the store.

I'm old school and collecting for me was owning that really cool story in a comic that was nice looking. I didn't want a copy with the cover falling off or writing on it, but I wasn't caring if the corners were square or whether it showed fingerprints under a black light. That has nothing to do with me taking pride in my collection. I like the characters, the art, and the stories. I find the obsessive pursuit of 9.8's to be disappointing. I want nice comics too, but I'm not ashamed of owning a fine copy. I don't think it's really possible to know what the market values are for the comics themselves because people are collecting statistical anomalies for the printing and distribution process and not really buying the comics.

Ask yourself this...

Would you buy a comic with a 10.0 grade on it just to have a comic graded 10.0, or would it need to actually be a title or series that you wanted to collect?
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I would never buy a 10.0 because they demand too high of asking prices. If I had a 10.0 come back from CBCS I'd probably sell it, buy a 9.8 to replace it, and then pay off my car with the profits.
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Collector ComicE2 private msg quote post Address this user
Wow this is a great learning experience. But i kinda feel like a 10.0 is almost fake in a way. I mean in my eyes nothing never perfect. Not even a diamond even if they say it is.

I'm a very picky collector like most. You collect what you love or has meaning to you. But at the same time i like quality stuff also. And if it old i like to restore to when it was like new (classic cars or Pinball machines). But you still want to keep it as close to the original as it was when it first came out.

To me having a complete collect is worth more then the grade. But it always that one comic your missing that always that $$$$ price tag.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would never buy a 10.0 because they demand too high of asking prices. If I had a 10.0 come back from CBCS I'd probably sell it, buy a 9.8 to replace it, and then pay off my car with the profits.
I kinda do this with duplicate books and 9.8s already. If I submit two copies of a book and one comes back a 9.8 and one a 9.6 or 9.4, I'm pretty okay with selling the 9.8 and keeping the slightly lower grade for myself
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