Jim Starlin refuses to work with CGC2834
 CBCS broke up with me over Facebook.
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Quote:Originally Posted by JLS_Comics I prefer grohe. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer So, like, your analogy seems to have been proven to be a good one. Bet that felt like this...  |
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| Post 152 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics  |
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| Post 153 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by dpiercy In any other circumstance yes I agree your quip is indeed full of humorous merit. Even now, to an extent remains funny. But it also might leave one with the thought Neal is all about the money - and nothing else. Then he comes along and gives my daughter an intensely beautiful Batman which went into a benefit auction for her via Russ Cochran which helped her a lot once it sold. And it is great he is such a fixture at the shows nationwide. |
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| LOL @Towmater , killin the gifs today | ||
| Post 155 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Yes. And going DOWN is different from going UP. If there's a DISCOUNT (rather than a SURCHARGE) for the service...well, we're not talking about DISCOUNTS from creators, are we...? If it's something that BENEFITS, rather than HARMS, the customer, then naturally, the customer is going to want to take advantage of that. That's real free-market capitalism, not the "how DARE you make fat stacks of cash off of MY signature??" butthurt that is at issue here. Quote: Originally Posted by SB Again...that's not relevant. They are, as you state, different circumstances. What would be analogous would be a painter or plumber saying to someone "oh, you plan on turning your house into an art museum, and charging admission...? Oh, well, in that case, the price is now X times what it was before I knew that." Same house. Same plumber/painter. Same job. Same exact circumstances. Higher price because the plumber/painter doesn't like what you're planning to do with your property, which is none of his business. You're arguing points that aren't contested, and not understanding the one that is. |
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| Post 156 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics No. That's not the "why" at issue here. It's a bad, juvenile argument. Business doesn't operate that way. "Because I said so" isn't a valid economic argument. Quote: Originally Posted by OCC Not contested. No one is talking about what's fair. What's fair to you is clearly not what's fair to me, and vice versa. I doubt you could find 5 people with different views on this board to agree with what is "fair" and what is not. What is at issue here, rather, is is it WISE. Is it good business. Is it economically sound? And, most importantly: would these creators be doing this if they knew the entire scope of the issue? I suspect, knowing what I know about human nature and comic book creators, that for the vast majority of them, the answer is a resounding "no." But, because they operate under the erroneous idea that all people getting yellow labels are making a profit, sometimes a lot of profit, off of their signature, they are offended and feel that they are being taken advantage of. That is not accurate, and never has been. Quote: Originally Posted by OCC Agreed, and not contested. The only caveat I would make to that is that once they offer it to the public, the public now has a right to discuss all aspects of it, including price, value, aesthetics, and anything else a potential buyer might consider. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Exactly! Now you're getting it! That price is the same FOR EVERYONE, regardless of what they intend to do with it! You're not charged a higher price than Fred down the street because you want to use that faucet for your modern art sculpture. You and Fred pay the same exact price! EXACTLY! Quote: Originally Posted by OCC Is it too late to ask for a refund...? I'm kidding! I kid! Mostly! |
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| Post 158 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Silly memes from the peanut gallery aside, the answer is no. It's none of their business what I intend to do with my property. |
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| Post 159 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm good with splotches.
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| I know what I'd do. I'd charge for autographs with witness and provide free for all others; just like Starlin. I despise what's happened to this industry and I'll revolt in the same way. My perogative | ||
| Post 160 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar That's a bad argument, and not relevant to the discussion. A good contractor isn't asking to HARM you (as these creators are doing.) They're asking to HELP you. That's a completely different situation. And if I didn't want to tell the contractor, that's my right...and I'm not charged a higher price because of it. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I would love to see you explain your points face to face with a creator whose sig you're trying to get. Though we know that will never happen because you know: bottom line |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar You have misunderstood. Let me clarify: the USE of that argument is spurious...not the actual argument itself. The "they can charge whatever they want!" is a spurious argument to use in this discussion, because that is not in contention (as you rightfully point out. Context is everything.) Please note the quotation marks I used in my first paragraph. Those are the indications that tell the reader what I'm referring to. No one is saying they can't charge what they want. So continually bringing it up, as if that ends the discussion, is spurious. No one is saying they can't. The argument itself isn't spurious...USING that argument in THIS discussion IS. Quote: Originally Posted by LS Yup. People keep bringing it up, but no one's claimed otherwise. Why? Perhaps because they don't have a better argument...? Quote: Originally Posted by LS Exactly. That's the issue, here. And make no mistake about it: the grading companies who offer sig series are losing business because of these things. |
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| I hate that this thread has become a few people for the same 8 pages trying to act like they are important because they have an opinion. IF you are anti-slabbing because of your own actions and CGC will not allow you to submit to them your anti-slabbing stance is irrelevant. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by jimmylinguini  |
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| Post 165 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by jimmylinguini I was tuning this thread out, but now I am curious. |
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| Give it time. | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by jimmylinguini It was fun sitting next to you at the retailer summit. You're a pretty skinny dude. |
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| Post 168 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 People have been flipping signed books for decades...long before slabbing existed. |
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| Post 169 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Kind of rude not to say anything... |
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| Post 170 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by jimmylinguini I was too starstruck. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Understandable |
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| Post 172 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by jimmylinguini Also, I thought you were impotent because you had an opinion, and I was intimidated by your impotence. |
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| lol | ||
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| Plus, you're super dreamy, so...there's that... | ||
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| I never got an answer to this: Does CBCS allow books to be dropped off and signed without a witness actually seeing them signed?  |
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| Post 176 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I agree DocB....BUT.....signatures started to be forged for profit and that caused the intro to Certification, which led to authentication, which led to witnessed authenticated. It is an evolution that was bound to happen as our community grew. I just wish they would do this forvinyl records. Anyone want to embark on a new grading company with me?? :o) You can say that you heard it here first!!! |
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| Post 177 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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| The single greatest contributor to the rise of graded book services was the necessity to counteract all the old school dealers that sold overgraded books with undisclosed restoration. | ||
| Post 178 • IP flag post | ||
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| @DocBrown I'm about to ruin a lot of your misconceptions about business in a capitalist society. 1. Major companies like Coca Cola, Sony, Moen, Apple, pick an industry and pick any major manufacturer, often dictate to retailers how much they can sell their merchandise - thus dictating their profit margins. It's no coincidence that AT&The, Verizon or Sprint all sell the new Apple Phone within its first three to six months of release for the same price - Apple dictates to them what they can sell it for. Want a new PS5 when it hits the market? Doesn't matter what retailer you buy it from, they all charge the same price for gaming systems with the same specs. If the retailer raises or cuts their price, Sony can, and often has, enforce penalties to the retailer. 2. Companies like Home Depot do have two tier pricing based on what you do with an item after it's purchased. Not everyone buys the same 2x4 for the same price. Major contractors pay more based on the fact that they are going to turn around and sell it for a profit. Ironically, it actually costs less for Home Depot to sell to these contractors. Contractors can pay upwards of 25 cents more per 2x4 than you will. It doesn't sound like a lot until you see how many 2x4s are used in a single house, then multiply that number by the number of houses in a new subdivision. Average house uses about 2000 2x4s which means the builder is paying $500 more per house - and that's just the 2x4s. Think about how much goes into a house - drywall, insulation, plywood, tyvek, shingles, roofing paper, tile, paint, faucets, toilets, bathtubs, cabinets and that's just basics. This price is often paid because it's convenient to the builder since it's delivered directly to their site and bypasses the need to visit the store, but it's not cost effective for the builder. 3. Resalr price is calculated into many durable goods, thus ensuring that manufacturers get their cut of your resale profits, regardless if you sell it or keep it for life. They actually have an entire field of economics dedicated to studying this very thing. Many economists make their living doing studies to determine the maximum amount a company can add to their price to recoup the resale value and still maintain competitive. Now I know you'll complain, and others will claim it's communism, but this is in fact basic business models where people enter into these agreements under their own freewill. People charge these prices because people will pay these prices. That's the only "why" there is. If you don't like the fact Stan Lee charges $100 for his signature, or believe it doesn't add that value, then don't pay it. You can ask "why" all you want, but no one owes anyone an explanation as to what the answer to "why" is. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown CGC Sells Fear like any other corporation seeking monopoly which has taken in well over $150 Million since opening its doors. "Fear" of signature "fraud" is merely a newest propaganda wrinkle pounded out by those who seek to profit from Fear. Back in 1968 I first began speculating in "new" comics on a larger scale then I had when I began purchasing 200 of each of the Marvel expansion issues like Shield 1, Doctor Strange 169, SM 1. Hulk 102, CA 100, IM #1, plus Ditko DC entry like the Creeper and H&D Showcase issues, plus their #1 issues soon thereafter, etc etc. all at cover price from Fremont News & Travel who ordered them "extra" for me from Omaha News with instructions of no "tops & bottoms" of the 50 ish wire wrapped bundles. I began doubling my money at a quarter each at shows and thru RBCC adverts, etc. I soon discovered I could quad my Iron Man #1 "investments" to 50 cents each. Adams, Ditko, Kirby, Smith, Rogers, Starlin, Wrightson - I ordered mainly off of creator art as people were collecting that way then. So X 56-65 ordered a pile, GL/GA 76 onwards likewise about 100 of each. 85 & 86 the numbers went much higher By 1970 I pre-ordered and bought 600 Conan #1 at 20 cents each. All of $120. In six months was getting a buck each. We used have a term called "regional scarcity" which I will explain in more detail down the road. It deals with the concept of "affidavit return fraud" once the ID distributors went on an "honor" system regarding returns. This is WHY books like Adams GL/GA, his X run, Kirby's New Gods and Forever People, Wrightson's Swamp Thing supposedly were not "selling" well. In reality they were. Jim Starlin's Warlock 9 thru 15 were also on the "hot" lists. By the late 70s when Clairmont, Byrne & Austin began X-Men 108 orders kept being doubled till by #114 was pre-ordering 10,000 per issue thru till after Byrne left with #143. After a steady downward trend thru the 70s Super Heroes began to resurge. In a year of holding began to get ten bucks for X-Men issues in the teens, and it just kept going up and up. By the early 80s a title such as GI Joe #1 since Marvel made that one issue returnable at the time I pre-ordered 35,000 copies. The "key" became #2 which I pre-ordered 17,000 copies. Since #2 was ordered before #1 got to the stores most other dealers went light. I cleaned up on #2 as it was soon being bandied about upwards of $50 a copy back then. No one had it. I did not tell any one how many I had. I was trading these new "hot" comics for Golden Age, etc. which is how I ended up with more than 400 Church copies directly from Chuck amongst many others back in the day. The more publicity, the more others tried jumping in on such a band wagon. This is in part what my book Comic Book Store Wars is about. What exactly were the "origins" of what we came to call the Direct Market coupled with the rise of the comic book store phenom. Speculating was always hit or miss. One had to do a lot of what back then by the mid 70s I called "market research" others would call "reading" comics. One studied the comics to figure out what others would and/or might like to acquire Others were like sheep. Jim Starlin has made a line in the sand - it seems to me - and I might easily be wrong, but his view as I interpret is asking comics people to stop being sheep. The slab Sig Fad will crash and burn. One can see such phenom before it happens. Are we there yet?   |
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