Jim Starlin refuses to work with CGC2834
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego So you're free to whine about this discrimination and Starlin is free to charge whatever he wants. Can we at least agree on that? |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| He can charge whatever he wants. He fans can like or dislike what he charges. He fans can agree or disagree about his opinion on slabbing. Everyone can do and think and feel whatever they want. Kumbaya. |
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| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Works for me  |
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| Post 103 • IP flag post | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Why don't artists offer to slab comics themselves? Problem solved. Jim Starlin Grading Company JSGC | ||
| Post 104 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KingNampa there are some who have started to do so. | ||
| Post 105 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I mean send to CBCS themselves, not start their own company. | ||
| Post 106 • IP flag post | ||
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego *holds his hands up while swaying back and forth* :o) I feel so "not pressured" anymore to ask for signatures. |
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| Post 107 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Writing sharpie ink on a cover is still ink on a cover no diff than any other ink. Sharpie bleeds out over time especially on slick cover paper stock. And math studies reveal around simply 10% of the "collecting" world of comics is hung up in to this yellow slab coffin gig. Start a comics memory book which is what I did with over 200 pages filled with hundreds upon hundreds of creator sigs. All in one place. Most of them personalized to me.     |
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| Post 108 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BLBcomics a link to your quoted math studies? | ||
| Post 109 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If those signatures weren't witnessed, then they have no value <eye roll >... lolol. | ||
| Post 110 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Comic books were made to be read, rolled up, shoved in back pockets, traded, coupon clipped, loved, bagged & boarded, thrown away, shared, hidden from little brothers, and hoarded. So, if somewhere along way, someone wants someone else's named scribbled on it or placed in a plastic case, then that's okay as well. |
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| Post 111 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Oh, and in 1974 I witnessed Jim Starlin draw this in my comics memory book in my house in Alameda Calif on Christmas Day. Known Jim off and on for a while now. Does the world revolve around having to pay a witness and/or paying for some "expert" to re-verify? I applaud Jim making his feelings known. 90% of the comics world feels the same way. Those who wish to remain clueless may do so. My reading of Jim's words on his Facebook page sez to me he could care less about the $5 sig fees unpaid. It is and always has been the utter arrogance of CGC thinking it is the Be-All, End-All of the comics world.  |
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| Post 112 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics You are spot on today! Amen to this! |
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| Post 113 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And some one here chose to *snicker snicker* denigrate Neal Adams "charging" a few bucks just to look in his direction. I have known Neal since the early 70s NYC Seulingcons and just for the record in January 2016 he GAVE this Batman cover inked by Walt Simonson to my oldest daughter Katy as part of a benefit auction hosted by long time comics guru friend Russ Cochran to help her. It sold for over $5K. Here is Katy saying thank you to Neal (amongst others) at the recent Kansas City Planet Comicon. Her first show since the first LA-area Wondercon April 2012. I am honored to call him my friend. He helped us out of a very dark spot involving skull opening brain moving surgeries which were happening same time CGC-Centric assholes were attacking me in those CGC "boards" I guess parts of this all boils down to how one comes off to any of these creators. Just saying my feelings on that note, for free.   |
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| Post 114 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Liking that Spirit sketch by Miller. |
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| Post 115 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater wouldn't you rather spend $1000 to be a Frank Miller CGC VIP where you get 3 witnessed signatures, a 3 minute crappy sketch on a modern 9.8 comic and a special lanyard; than this sketch? <double eye roll> | ||
| Post 116 • IP flag post | ||
 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That book is very cool. Much respect to you and maintaining that book for so long. It has a value that's priceless. | ||
| Post 117 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I'd rather have the Punisher sketch that was on Comic Link years ago. It was done at a convention in Miami in the 1980's. It was a full color sketch done by Miller. |
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| Post 118 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Back in Dec 1981 when Frank drew that thank you Spirit in my comics memory book I hosted him for his very first in-store signing for which I had this flyer printed up. We handed them out in my comic book stores for a month plus I mailed a flyer to all the other comic book stores in the Bay Area from Santa Cruz to Santa Rosa - about 80 or so stores in toto. Just four days before Christmas half those comics store owners closed their places up on that Saturday to come get their Miller High. Over 4000 fans showed up to get his sig that week end - all free sigs. Frank signed more than 20,000 items over 12 hours Saturday 9 AM to 9 PM before I chopped off the line telling every one to come back 10 AM Sunday and we went on till 4 PM the next day. His hand hurt. He was a true trooper back in the day. Plus Frank supplied the art for a special Lili Marlane S&N 1000 run print colored last sec by Kim Deitch. Those we were selling for $100. There was also a low 100 copy B&W version. Rare it seems these days of daze. Frank drew an Eisner-esque Spirit in my book as we had just gotten done spending a couple hours getting very stoned and paging thru my then 580 out of 618 near complete Spirit section run. Some say this is one of the very earliest drawings of The Spirit he had ever done. This was back in the day before he got mugged in NYC which turned his world view askew.   |
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| Post 119 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I put some thought and effort in to posting on this thread here with the sole intent of trying to present a point of view that this Sig Fad Craze peaking inside the comics world is detrimental to the wider range of building a solid foundation of WHY comics should be treated with respect as real literature. The French call sequential comics the 9th Art The push on trying to convince all creators to go with the business flow as envisioned by those who stand to make, and in cases are making, big bucks off this Sig Fad are to many many other serious comics people carpetbaggers. It is not a business model with longevity legs building a solid foundation no matter how much one might wish to pontificate otherwise. The amount of total serious collectors who are NOT in to slabbing on any level much less this newest Sig Fad Craze of "witness" BS which has on more than one occasion been shown to not be what is supposedly "guaranteed" by a company which in all seriousness does "Guarantee" a damn thing. What has happened instead for well over a decade is this (non)"Guarantee" corporation attacks those who have serious issues twisting perceptions making same in to the fault of many a soul now who has stood up. I have been emphatic all along since its inception I have ZERO feelings one way or another regarding the need for an ethical service to 3rd Party "certify" the nearest we can tell grade of any given comic book. Some of us know how to grade funny books as well as how to detect "restoration" - neither of which is some deep dark secret. That said, there are those who do not know all the myriad "secrets" behind the art of comics grading, and also transactions which cry out for a 3rd Party to "certify" before cash changes hands a comic book is indeed a certain grade. The firm I have discussed of late here as well as over in Facebook in its inception did have ethics. Those ethics dissipated over time once the initial presidential energy left for reasons one can speculate upon but that is a discussion for another time Suffice to say, now that CBCS is on the set, Real Ethics have been returning to that aspect of comics collecting. What is not needed, and is in fact turning off MANY collectors in a way some closer to the slab trip might not realize is this Sig Yellow Slab game which is in actuality many a time run with an arrogance which has been accumulating for some time now. Jim Starlin is merely a tip of an ice berg which saw well over 1000 agreements in 24 hours with Jim on each of his two major Facebook postings. In order for the present gigs to continue to function as more think they can jump on such an easy speculative band wagon while the music is still playing there needs to be a constantly increasing flow inside what I call The Bigger Fool Theory. In the more than 50 years since I placed my first comics mail order advert in RBCC #47 Oct 1966 age 14 till now, have seen, participated, and, even helped create, some of the earlier spec fads in order to make bucks in this market. In a digital age one needs to be cultivating Next Generation(s) of comics readers. Not running a simple AmWay style scheme. Are we there yet?  |
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| Post 120 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer What if I don't make any "loot" off their signature? Do I now get the sig for free...? Do I get a refund from the creator...? Do I deserve a guaranteed price, like publishers, printers, distributors, and retailers have...? What about the costs to purchase, maintain, transport, and submit my comics...does the creator need to share in those...? Since the vast majority of the value of any comic book is in its condition...and signatures are only value amplifiers, not value creators...do I get a refund if my book doesn't grade in the "profitable" range...? And...don't the creators deserve their "cut" if a retailer sells some sort of variant for far above what they paid for it...? Does the plumber who does $5,000 worth of work, that now makes my house worth $20,000 more, deserve his cut...? So many questions... |
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| Post 121 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The argument that "a creator is free to charge whatever they want, to whomever they want, for whatever reason they want, and it's no one's business but THEIRS" is a spurious one. Once someone offers something for sale...in this case, a signature...it is no longer "THEIR business." It becomes subject to public discussion and negotiation. Just like if I was offering my house for sale. The potential buyers now have the right to question my price, or whether the foundation is solid, or the A/C has leaks, etc. That's how it works. If I'm not selling it, it's no one's business but my own. If I'm selling it, the buying pool has the right to question how, why, where, when, and what. That said...charging a different price for the same service...in this case, a signature...based on the perception of what someone might do with their property afterwards...is not only no one's business, but also quite rude. Again: if the painter paints my house for $5,000, and it adds $25,000 to the value of the house...am I going to give the painter his "cut"? Is the painter going to charge me more because I'm selling the house? No and no. It's none of his business. He gives me a price, and he paints the house. The house is not his, he does not own it, he does not maintain it, and he has no stake in it. He does not charge me a higher price because he knows I'm selling it. What I do with the house after he has worked on it is none of his business... ...even if he signs it, which he better not do, unless his name is Jeff Koons, in which case, I hope he does. How much less so an artist who had nothing to do with preserving the particular copy that I'd like him to simply sign...? Charge whatever you wish. The market will bear what it will bear. But don't alienate your fans because of your misunderstanding that people are "profiting" off of your signature by charging a premium for your signature based on where you think it might end up. |
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| Post 122 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And, by the way, if everyone is so concerned about the artists getting "their cut", why not approach them and assist them in slabbing their own books...? There are plenty of willing assistants, and that way, creators can make all the profit they are capable of making off their own signatures. ...what...? You say creators don't take the time to carefully store and maintain their comics over decades, and thus can't "profit" off of their own property...? Gosh. Don't know what to tell you there. Wolfman says he has 200 NM copies of New Teen Titans #2. Someone call him up and offer to slab them for him. He'd do quite well, if what he says is true..... |
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| Post 123 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If you are referring obliquely via some "plumber's" unit to Jim Starlin, again, I will reiterate based on reading his words his feeling of fed-up with CGC had nothing to do with the bucks initially proffered. The incident of which he wrote about merely being a straw on the camel's back. This Sig Fad thing is like AmWay marketing techniques. |
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| Post 124 • IP flag post | ||
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown For the same reason Ferrari doesn't own their own car dealerships. A signature carries a low overhead cost, just a handful of Sharpies and a few hours of their time. It's not the artist who are at fault here, it's speculators who are playing the market. There are tons of things in this world that are priced based upon their resell value, including your house. Something as simple as the faucet in your house is priced upon what value it adds to your house. A Moen faucet, on average, costs no more to produce than an American Standard faucet, but a Moen will cost more, on average, based upon the value it adds. Same thing with many flooring products. Bamboo flooring is extremely cheap to produce, and easy to find, but costs as much as red oak, but bamboo typically adds a greater resale value since it's the "in" thing to do. You can buy a car with he exact same features, but it's priced can be lower or higher based upon the colour. A red minivan sells for less than pearl blue, but a red Mustang sells for more than a pearl blue Mustang. All of this is based upon aftermarket sales and has nothing to do with the cost of paint. |
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| Post 125 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown It's an analysis done before sale. I'm very sorry to inform you, but the answer to your question is YES, they ARE going to charge you more, if you are willing to pay it, based on what you are going to do with it after the fact among many other things. A painter/plumber is not going to work for the same price in every single town or neighborhood; flat rate pricing in business is mostly reserved for items where it is not worth doing a price analysis (in the case of a plumber, that would be an hourly service call). This is what makes our country great. One has the right (and usually the intelligence) to charge whatever they please, based on any information at hand, and yes, on an individual case-by-case basis. In order to maximize profits, one must analyze many things, including how much the customer is willing to spend, how much they will benefit from services, even their personality, and base price accordingly. If they don't like it, and want everything to be "fair", they can either whine to their liberal political representative, or move to a different country; likely a communist one that fits more into their beliefs. If you want a veritable "piece" of someone (signature, opinion, service, etc.), they do have the right to charge whatever they please, based on whatever information they feel affects their price; thus "what you are going to do with it afterward", or any other piece of information, IS literally their business (but you of course have no obligation to be upfront or truthful about it; 'tis the game of cutting a deal). Thus is the USA free market. |
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| Post 126 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer  and  |
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| Post 127 • IP flag post | ||
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics It was a joke and a pretty funny one, too. I don't think it was denigrating Neal Adams, just poking fun at the charging for signature scenarious. Neal Adams is awesome, I think it is great he is such a fixture at cons these days. |
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| Post 128 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| While some parties involved have gone out of their way to invite criticism one of the great things about this hobby has been the people that participate. The whining and finger-pointing about those who seek witnessed signatures or graded books really says a lot more about the whiners than the people who are excited about adding these books to their collections. |
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| Post 129 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Not true. Sorry. The plumber doesn't ask you what you're planning to do with the house. It's none of their business. And, if they did, most rational people would consider that nosiness, and potentially Quote: Originally Posted by SB No one said anything about "flat rate pricing." No one said anything about pricing for different towns or neighborhoods. A plumber is not going to charge a different rate for YOUR HOUSE based on what you plan to do with YOUR HOUSE afterwards. It's none of their business. And they're not going to charge a different price for identical, or near-identical work, either ("identical" being the operative word, there.) And if they do, it's time to find a different plumber. Quote: Originally Posted by SB "One has the right to charge what they please" is a red herring in this discussion, designed to muddy the argument. The discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with the RIGHT to charge what one pleases. That's not the issue, and never has been, because no one's ever disputed that. The issue is WHY people are charging DIFFERENT prices for the same service, and if that difference is based on ignorance, it would be smart economics to figure that out and adjust accordingly. Quote: Originally Posted by SB Not the issue, and I do find it interesting that some keep making this argument, because no one disagrees with this. I have never, in the many years this topic has been discussed, ever seen anyone make the argument that someone doesn't have the right to charge what they want, not once, ever. Yet, some people keep making that argument as if people have. It's not about having the right to charge whatever one wants, for whatever reason one wants. It's about why they are charging what they are, and if that reasoning is based on ignorance or awareness. Big difference. |
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