Jim Starlin refuses to work with CGC2834
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Who said "expected"? I said if "I" was working the CGC booth when Starlin came by I would've taken care of the situation and not made excuses to him. Sorry I disturbed you. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The situation should have been rectified by CGC not by giving out the clients information but by directly telling the CGC client that the book was not eligible for a yellow label per the artist's wishes or until he paid his asking fee. Period, end of story! | ||
| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." - G. Patton A flipped $100 yellow starlin label or the same $3.99 comic + a free starlin signature? - I think I know which Patton would purchase. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Official video response from CGC: |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos lol, I think that actually was the CGC response to the #CreepEngine fiasco. | ||
| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego CGC and CBCS have strict rules for facilitators/witnesses about witnessing signatures and codes of conduct. The CGC facilitator in this case has reportedly broken or at least badly bent the rule regarding actually witnessing the signature. Something of an aside to the question above, but wanted to mention it. CGC knows what books are being discussed and who submitted them. CGC is....correct... to say they are not responsible for the fees their customer owes. Might have been wiser to just have given Starlin the $20(guess on my part) he was owed. But what they could and maybe should have done is...... Person B (CGC) tells person C (the artist that got stiffed) that they will contact Person A (the fan that did not pay the artist) and tell him/her that CGC will not grade and encapsulate the book until Person C confirms he's been paid. |
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| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego I believe you are mistaken. This was their response to the other problem: |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan Agreed. These books should get the green label of death, or returned. The witness should not be allowed to submit any more comics...I'm not sure why he/she got summuned away, but it should have been made clear to the owner of the books he had to wait until he/she returned to witness. I would have waited, even if I was told I didn't have to...cgc should take this breach of trust very seriously... |
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| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The books never left the artist until the witness returned, it doesn't matter that he didn't see ink touch paper, he saw the transfer of the chain of custody of the books from artist to client. | ||
| Post 59 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Those might be the "rules". However, that isn't a witnessed signature. If I was a creator whose signature was desired I'd give one signature away for free. 2 to 3 books or signatures would be $5.00 each. 4 and above would be 20.00 each. That would limit the flippers, keep my fans happy, and make it easier for me to have a conversation with the fan standing in front of me. |
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| Post 60 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego The moment CGC allowed Starlin to leave their booth without an assurance that they would resolve the situation, they made a mistake that they would never recover from. I agree that CGC should not have violated their privacy policy, but a response that was essentially "We're not giving you that information, go away, it's not our problem." is horrible public relations. The proper way to handle it was to tell Starlin that they would not give him the customers name and information, but that they would track the person down have assist in resolving the situation. CGC should have also told Starlin that they would make him whole, even if they had to pay it themselves. Lastly, they should have told Starlin how much they loved and respected his work, how much of a valued member to the comic book community he was and that they appreciated the fact that he was working with them to resolve this situation amicably. Yes, CGC is under no actual legal obligation to pay the fee agreed to between Starlin and the customer. But even with making that promise, the chances that they would end up actually digging into their own pockets was minimal. And a little flattery and ego stroking goes a long way. Too many companies and people, when faced with a contentious situation, think the best way to handle it is to deny any culpability and try to push blame back on the other party. There are ways to handle things calmly without admitting to any guilt, but with an air towards resolution. |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I can't recall CGC ever doing anything the honorable way. Denying culpability is their par for the course. And will this set them back? Probably not, I thought creepenginegate would have caused them more harm than it did, but CGC is like a cockroach. | ||
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego But if the witness left we dont know if the books left Jim or not. I mean they probably didn't but they can't say with 100% certainty that this is true and they remained with Jim at his table the entire time. |
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| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JLS_Comics Agreed. The integrity of the chain of custody is in question once the witness leaves and does not actually witness the signature. Also, isn't that what they get paid for -- to "witness" the signature? Ironically, it looks like CGC/the owner now has to submit the books to CBCS for a red label. How do you like them apples?  |
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| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JLS_Comics For that line of thought to hold logic you'd have to suggest the artist conspired to switch out their own signature with a forgery. Is that logical? No, it is not, it's patently redonkulous. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego It could happen without the subversiveness. |
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| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 There are many collectors who are also part of this issue. Buying and selling for profit.....it is what the secondary market is all about. I admit that I love collecting autographs and am willing to sell a book if the price is reasonable. I also know that I collect some books just for my personal collection, but am I really willing to pay $100.00 for someone to sign something just to have a signature? No I am not. Some artists are just cool to have as part of your collection. Others like FM, SL, and other big wigs who know that there is a market for their autos, are just being capitalistic and getting their fair share of the cut. A great example and for comparison is the music industry. Remember free file sharing? Now mostly, a thing of the past, but still occurs. Just like "signature sharing" - which looks to be coming to be "a thing of the past". Many different media artists already know that there is a virtual lucrative business market in autograph signing.....take the Green Arrow's Steven Amell for example. He opened a business to help other stars "navigate" the cons. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/stars-getting-rich-fan-conventions-933062 "If somebody wanted to do a convention every weekend, they could make more on the convention circuit than their episodic fee," says Arrow star Stephen Amell, who became so enamored of the festival business that he started his own talent agency, WFA Entertainment, to help other actors navigate the space (and score a buck for himself). The actor, who is said to have irked traditional agents by competing with them, says he "wanted to control the whole front- and backend of my operation. I didn't see a need for representation." One source deeply involved in the convention circuit estimates that Amell walks away with $250,000 a weekend — more than he makes per episode for Arrow — though he denies that figure. Here's how it works: Actors typically ask for a price guarantee — often paid up front — to show up, sign autographs, pose for photos and sometimes take part in a panel discussion or two. Most conventions charge an entry fee, collect $5 for every autograph and $10 per photo (with a photographer taking another $10). The stars — who receive luxury travel and accommodations — pocket the rest. Anything over the guarantee is icing on the cake. According to multiple sources familiar with convention deals, the basic guarantee rate for genre stars is in the $5,000 to $10,000 range per appearance — with leads on such current TV series as The Walking Dead, Once Upon a Time, Supernatural, The Vampire Diaries, Netflix's Marvel shows and The CW's DC Comics fare commanding anywhere from $35,000 to $250,000 and up, depending on their popularity and the frequency with which they appear. At top conventions, it's not uncommon for a star to earn anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000 on top of their guarantee (more if they spend extra time signing)." |
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| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Where is the logic in calling someone a "witness" if they didn't actually WITNESS anything, dear critical thinker? |
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| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Logan510 they witnessed the transfer of chain of custody from the signer to the customer. Which is fine, the signer isn't going to forge their own signature, duh. If you were to actually go down the path of logic that you are attempting to make then it wouldn't even be possible for AWs like CFP to crack and press yellow labels, which he does regularly. He didn't witness the signature did he? No, but he witnessed the chain of custody while the book was removed from the slab. His word is the guarantee because he has the trust of CBCS. | ||
| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Oh, I know what happens at cons, I've particpated and been a witness. No one said the signer would forge their own signature, that's so stupid I'm not even sure why you've said it a couple of times. I think you're bright enough to see that if someone is paying for an authenticated, witnessed signature, it would be kind of nice knowing that someone approved by the company actually witnessed the signature taking place...and yes I know that doesn't happen frequently. |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I feel like I'm in court... transfer of said document to co-signer defendent who acted as witness... blah blah blah.... so sad. So so sad and very few are looking at this from 20,000 ft view. In its entirety... this is pathetic | ||
| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I think the bottom line is that while CGC was not legally obligated to smooth this over, it would've been the smart thing to do. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would stipulate this incident Jim Starlin has made two longish posts about on his FB page really has nothing to do with the measly twenty bucks - even if it was a hundred. Taint about the dollars. It's about the sheer arrogance of the firm. |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Unfortunately, conflicts between comic creators (writers/artists) and grading companies and fans will only become more frequent and more hostile unless those creators get better educated on the grading companies practices and the fans desires. So this begs the question, what is CBCS doing to make the interaction of these three parties better, and more advantageous to all? Or should they be doing anything? (I only mention CBCS since this is their forum.) I have now seen or heard of 2 separate creators that charge one fee for signatures and another if it is witnessed. Maybe that is a good compromise. |
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| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Charging two different fees based upon what you are perceived to do with your own property afterwards is blatant discrimination against one half of your fan base. IMO | ||
| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Its just about impossible to differentiate between a collector wanting a yellow sig and someone looking to sell it. Good policy would be free for minors, charge the adults. I cant imagine *most artists are extremely well off, and they deserve a piece from anyone making loot off their signature. | ||
| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I love my hobby. Such a beautiful thing ... truly |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Logan510 Begs the question, does CBCS allow books to be dropped off and signed without a witness actually seeing them signed? Oh, and if I was Starlin, since I wasn't going to work with CGC any longer I'd have taken a big stack someone dropped off and had someone else sign them. Then return them. 10 days later I'd let people know what happened to throw a wrench in the entire yellow label program. |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ummmm, the slab crowd all gah-gah over this new fad scam of "witness" to sigs being entombed in plastic coffins is far far far from "half" the "fan" base. More like maybe 10%. | ||
| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater love your thinking!!! | ||
| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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