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Cited: Marvel Likely Cancelling 30 titles2798

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Collector 1.29K	1.29K Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Crunkpostit Quote: Originally Posted by Grayspeedster Marvel already announced they were returning to legacy numbering, returning the characters in the top left of the cover(some here refer to as 90's look but this was going on since the 60's at the least) and also bringing back the marvel value stamp. I for one find it insane that the big 2 think it's okay to sell me ads in my comics when the indie's don't. Saying they've done that for a long time doesn't make it anymore okay or appealing to new readers. I would love to see a market purge from The big 2 and have them go back to the roots. Everyone, man woman and child will relate again! Look at Alterna Comics bringing back newsprint! Not just 1 or 2 titles but a whole line up of books coming out on newsprint with "that 90's look" and they are all $1 to $1.75 per issue with a mix of ongoing and mainly mini's! Yeah alterna is smart for doing what they're doing. If it works it works. I think people are tired of paying $4 for a comic because it has fancy paper. I miss the old pulp newsprint comics... :.( ROFLMAO. You think books cost what they do because they are not on newsprint? Did you know that when they shifted from newsprint newsprint was MORE expensive? Companies charge what they do because it is far more expensive to produce a book than it was nearly 20 years ago. BTW retro blows chunks. Writing post '94 to about '04 was freaking terrible. The problem for Marvel and DC is that their fans always what came before and never let them move on.
	8 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Wow. Those sales numbers are much lower than I thought. I recall hearing an interview once where it was stated that the break even number for a comic to make money was something like 30K or 40K sales. Maybe it's less for Marvel with the number of titles they print each month. But still, those sales numbers cannot be sustainable for a title.
	8 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

Collector 426	426 jdangerc private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Crunkpostit Quote: Originally Posted by Grayspeedster Marvel already announced they were returning to legacy numbering, returning the characters in the top left of the cover(some here refer to as 90's look but this was going on since the 60's at the least) and also bringing back the marvel value stamp. I for one find it insane that the big 2 think it's okay to sell me ads in my comics when the indie's don't. Saying they've done that for a long time doesn't make it anymore okay or appealing to new readers. I would love to see a market purge from The big 2 and have them go back to the roots. Everyone, man woman and child will relate again! Look at Alterna Comics bringing back newsprint! Not just 1 or 2 titles but a whole line up of books coming out on newsprint with "that 90's look" and they are all $1 to $1.75 per issue with a mix of ongoing and mainly mini's! Yeah alterna is smart for doing what they're doing. If it works it works. I think people are tired of paying $4 for a comic because it has fancy paper. I miss the old pulp newsprint comics... :.( Although $4 per comic does sting, I wouldn't mind paying it if the comic was good. The old pulp newsprint would be good too. I did a few google searches and couldn't find anything about what we are talking about. Can anyone send me a link that says they are going back to legacy numbering and corner art again?
	8 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

Collector 1.48K	1.48K OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	They'll just reboot them all with a new #1 and 50 variants each.
	8 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@jdangerc clickable text
	8 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

Collector 15.32K	15.32K BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I would like to see Marvel go outside the box and create a new universe designed away from superheroes. Maybe something more mature and dark.
	8 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 5.46K	5.46K JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Some of these are minis and/or known to be ending. Thunderbolts is, I believe the term used was "On hiatus until after Secret Empire". I'm not too worried, they'll just re-shuffle the deck and re deal the cards again
	8 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips I would like to see Marvel go outside the box and create a new universe designed away from superheroes. Maybe something more mature and dark. That would be bold, but I don't see it working for Marvel. I really think they need to get back to the basics. Extremely streamline the number of books being published each month. Just the core characters/comics. Most of the characters are better suited as secondary characters and are best in small doses. Then if someone comes up with a really interesting story, do a limited series for them. Also, one ongoing series that isn't dedicated to one character or team would be great. Like they used to do with Astonishing Tales or Marvel Presents. You can use this to introduce new characters, one off stories, etc. Forget the big events, cross-overs, gimmicks, multiple titles of a character/team. Also, get good talent. Good writing and great art will sell more books than anything else. Maybe I should apply for the editor in chief position. I have all the answers!
	8 years ago	Post 33 • IP flag post

Collector 2.13K	2.13K ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Lonestar Wow. Those sales numbers are much lower than I thought. I recall hearing an interview once where it was stated that the break even number for a comic to make money was something like 30K or 40K sales. Maybe it's less for Marvel with the number of titles they print each month. But still, those sales numbers cannot be sustainable for a title. if you think about the overhead costs associated to the manufacturing of all the components of one book.....in addition to the labor costs associated to the artist, inker, writer, colorist, cover artist?, etc....etc.... I would think that 15K or below would be well below the necessary profit margin of a series. Estimating with the Math....you get this.....I'll use publisher costs, just so we don't get entangled with retail.... $2.00/book X 15000/run = $30,000.00 - artist are probably salaried and work on multiple titles at times $30K X 12 monthly issues = $450,000 That is a big chunk of change that is per title. Now is this Math accurate....probably not, but it gives you an idea of what kinds of dollars individuals have put into play. - of course this number reduces with the number of books being printed.
	8 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

Collector 2.13K	2.13K ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Who will be buying the first book out for the new 'Legacy" "initiative"? For me, I'll probably pick it up - just to see what it is all about.....I may even pick up a couple of the tie-ins - for those characters I like to read. We'll just have to see, won't we.
	8 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@ZosoRocks OK, here's my math, after doing some more searching. On a $4.00 comic book, distributer gets 15%, retailer gets 45%, printing costs are 25%. That leaves 15% for the publisher to pay writers & artists, as well as other employees (editors, admin, etc.) and things like rent on office space, insurance, etc. So that would be $0.60 a comic book. Using the lower end of mainstream page rates from fairpagerates.com (for some reason, I can't get the link to work) I get the cost to be about $380 per page for art, script, colors & letters. And $600 for a cover. Assuming 22 pages of story in a comic book, gives us: 22 x $380 = $8,360 + $600 (for cover) = $8,960 per comic book. The profession I currently work in, uses a 2.7 multiplier over our labor costs to calculate our break even point. I'm sure its different from industry to industry, but I'll use it. So $8,960 x 2.7 = $24,192. That is what Marvel should need to make on each comic published in order to break even. If we divide $24,192 by the 0.60 they make per comic, ($24,192/0.60) you get 40,330 comics needed to be sold just to break even. Anyone with better information on my assumptions, please feel free to correct me. Any retailers out there? Is my information on the percentages for the distributor and retailers accurate?
	8 years ago	Post 36 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	You have to factor in the CEO's salary too. They could probably save all 20 titles if they fire that one dude.
	8 years ago	Post 37 • IP flag post

Collector 2.13K	2.13K ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Lonestar....good info.....very telling, huh?
	8 years ago	Post 38 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego You have to factor in the CEO's salary too. They could probably save all 20 titles if they fire that one dude. Being management sucks. Everybody thinks we make rake in the big bucks while the little guys do all the hard work. They think we do nothing all day and waste time on things like posting on message boards.
	8 years ago	Post 39 • IP flag post

Collector 66	66 felixrunners private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I'm sure they make money on ads too...so the number should be a bit lower than 40,330 comics.
	8 years ago	Post 40 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@Lonestar not saying that CEO's don't work, but I will never be convinced that any CEO anywhere deserves a salary in excess of $500,000. P.S. There's a big difference between a CEO and lower level management too. I know those those guys are earning their pay.
	8 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@DarthLego Yeah, I was just trying to be funny. I failed. P.S. I know some of the guys I supervise think I don't do much here.
	8 years ago	Post 42 • IP flag post

Collector 82	82 aerischan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Lonestar @ZosoRocks OK, here's my math, after doing some more searching. On a $4.00 comic book, distributer gets 15%, retailer gets 45%, printing costs are 25%. That leaves 15% for the publisher to pay writers & artists, as well as other employees (editors, admin, etc.) and things like rent on office space, insurance, etc. So that would be $0.60 a comic book. Way too much for printing costs given Marvel's volume. That breakdown was at $2.99 and ~5-6K print run. This is the breakdown for an issue with $3.50 cover price with higher print run (Image Comics). http://www.jimzub.com/creator-owned-economics-the-changing-market/
	8 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

Collector 82	82 aerischan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	From Kieron Gillen: (Note: I remember reading somewhere that Image flat fee for solicitation, marketing, etc. for single issue periodicals is ~$3K) http://kierongillen.tumblr.com/post/121756273497/market-maven-is-the-wicked-the-divine-in Quote: Originally Posted by Kieron Gillen I’ll give you some really basic rule of thumbs for indie comic commentary: Anything selling stably over 10k in single issues is a cause for celebration and joy. The creators are almost certainly extremely happy. If you’re selling over (ooh) 12k, you’re probably making more than either of the big two would pay you, unless you’re one of the very biggest names. If you’re selling anything near 20k, you probably have to buy drinks for your friends. You cannot do an industry commentary column on indie books without including the impact of trades. There are books that are selling well beneath 10k and are doing just fine. All the three sentences I bolded in a block were about making money from the single issues. They do not include any other revenue source, such as trades. If the single issues break even and you make your money in trades, that’s also fine. With a few exceptions, big two comics primarily make their money in single issues. That is one reason why their single issue sales matter so much more. There’s other reasons why single issue sales need to be higher… * Overheads. They have more editors staff, etc. What a creator owned book makes, generally speaking, a creator owned book keeps. The overheads are lower. * Profit targets. Books don’t just need to be profitable. They need to be profitable to a level which has been corporately pre-determined, in a set period of time. * A relatively low selling book is taking the place of a book which could abstractly sell higher. Why keep a book which sells 18k on the shelf when you could have one which sells more? All those factors interacting are amongst the reasons why the bar is higher for a monthly audience at the big two.
	8 years ago	Post 44 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@aerischan Thanks. Good information. I understand this is related to creator owned comics being published by Image, which is different from a company like Marvel. The distributor and retailer percents are the same as what I found. Accepting the 7% printing cost from the chart you posted, leaves 33% for Marvel. Using my other assumptions, it drops the break even print run to 18,327. That's close to the 20,000 or 30,000 number I remember hearing before. Also, it appears to be the number below which Marvel is cancelling titles.
	8 years ago	Post 45 • IP flag post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonestar
The distributor and retailer percents are the same as what I found. Accepting the 7% printing cost from the chart you posted, leaves 33% for Marvel. Using my other assumptions, it drops the break even print run to 18,327. That's close to the 20,000 or 30,000 number I remember hearing before. Also, it appears to be the number below which Marvel is cancelling titles.

Also note that those percentages are based on a $3.50 cover price. Printing costs are likely a smaller part of the cover price at $3.99.

Bleeding Cool - Marvel’s John Turitzin On Price Increases – “We’re Just Looking To Maximise Our Profits For Business”

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Originally Posted by Bleeding Cool
John Turitzin, one of the three main bosses at Marvel spoke at the Cowen & Company Technology Media & Telecom Conference, talking about the performance of the company and telling people that “our company is a cash machine”.

In a question and answer session at the end, fund manager Jason Wood noted that despite price increases on a number of titles, they expect publishing revenue to remain the same and asked how much Marvel views demand for their comics as inelastic – that they will sell fewer issues (with the reduced costs that brings) but will bring in the same amount of money.

Turitzin stated “We’re always testing our pricing on our comic books to see the extent of which we can, you know, it is inelastic, and we can increase our profit in that business.

“We sell comics at different price points, we sell more popular comics at higher price points, we sell other ones at lower price points, we differentiate in pricing in that way, some of our comics aimed at kids, Marvel Adventures line is a lower priced line. We’re just looking to maximise our profits for business without alienating our own fanbase, without making them feel that they’re gouged which I hope you don’t feel.”

Turitzin did state however that if sales did drop off below acceptable levels, they would have to reconsider the price increases. “Our goal is to maximise our revenue, and if we’re not maximising our revenue then our pricing is wrong and we have to take a look at that. So you can hope that we see that attrition and our prices come down.”

However with Marvel’s top selling books surviving the $3.99 price point nicely, that doesn’t seem to be an issue right now.

8 years ago

Collector 82	82 aerischan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego You have to factor in the CEO's salary too. They could probably save all 20 titles if they fire that one dude. Note, the CEO's base salary is probably already factored into the theoretical 2.7 multiplier for overhead costs. It's the performance bonuses that are extra and probably get squeezed from 100+K sales of #1s by way of incentive variants. :p
	8 years ago	Post 47 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	This guy gets it.
	8 years ago	Post 48 • IP flag post

Collector 426	426 jdangerc private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego @jdangerc clickable text Pretty much sounds nothing like what I was saying. Corner art? Old writers and artists? Nope.
	8 years ago	Post 49 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@jdangerc It was reported they were going to legacy numbers, I never heard about all that other mumbo jumbo.
	8 years ago	Post 50 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 3.3K	3.3K JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	If they would put out good books they would sale. I like the 70's Man-thing I read the first issue of the R.L. Stine new mini series, WTH was this he was a talking actor? Why have someone write a book if he has no concept who the character is. These character took years and years to create and get their canon all worked out. If you don't believe me go read the first issue of the hulk I don't think Stan had a clear path for that character in the beginning. I understand all these writer want to be next big thing with their far out concepts but all they usually do is take a big dump on what the character was built up to be. Disney should invest money in cloning technology and clone Roy Thomas 4 or 5 times and have him write the whole line.
	8 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Collector 426	426 jdangerc private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego @jdangerc It was reported they were going to legacy numbers, I never heard about all that other mumbo jumbo. All I can say is that it's going to take a lot more than legacy numbering to produce more sales. They need to revamp the whole damn universe and get back to the basics.
	8 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@jdangerc agreed
	8 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

Beaten by boat oars 52.37K	52.37K Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego This guy gets it. I'm always willing to exploit the proletariat.
	8 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

Collector 4.85K	4.85K Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	@jdangerc @DarthLego clickable text At the bottom of this article, it mentions the return of the characters in the top left corner of the cover, which they call the Marvel Value Stamp. Never heard it called that before.
	8 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

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