Is the variant bubble going to burst?2691
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Darkga private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa The thought of that literally made me laugh out loud, because that's what his agent probably wish he could do.  |
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KingNampa LOL! I think Ditko is only hanging on out of spite. | ||
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James private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Lonestar I am a retailer. The variant game is fine as far as I'm concerned. You just have to order on a scale that works for your store. Blaming retailers for the phenomenon is sort of misguided - if a customer wants a 1:50 of a book I only order 25 of, then I offer the book to them at the price of the difference in my order cost. Smaller variants, like 1:10 or 'Order 250% of this item code' variants get put on the shelf at cover. In the case of the 1:50 I now have 25 copies of a title that probably wont sell. This is fine with Marvel, because now their product is taking up more space on the shelves (that is IF I put them all out). Eventually they get placed in a $1 box and taken to a show, or moved some other way, but it's at no loss to me and the customer is happy. So is the publisher, and so is Diamond. The problem with variants for many stores tends to be: a store normally orders 25 copies of a book, and takes a chance ordering a 1:1000 that then depreciates 50% after the first month if it doesn't sell (ASM #25 is a perfect example). Then a store is left with 975 copies of a book no one wants, AND a massive variant that they cannot recoup their costs on. I tend to hear more retailers complaining about unsold variants than anything else, and the key here is that they should never have ordered them in the first place. Only do it if A: it's a sure sale, or B: you are already at that ordering threshold. As soon as collectors stop buying these covers retailers will stop ordering them and publishers will stop printing them. But that's not going to happen any time soon. The risk is, and should be, on the collector with regards to variants such as this. If they want them and the price drops in half over 3 weeks, that's their investment. That said, personally I don't care for variant collecting but it is a market that helps stores keep more product on shelves and in many cases helps their profit margins, if only by a small amount. |
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James private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Eh, I get where you're coming from but the problem is that the definition of the 'Incentive Variant' is to incentivize retailers to order more books so they can unlock a book to sell at higher cost. It is an incentive to the retailer, not the customer. I agree with you on open to order variants, and stores upcharging for, say, variant covers on the Rebirth line are scumbags. But as with anything else the rest is up to the buyer. If a store overprices a 1:50 variant they reached to get, it wont sell and will probably depreciate before they recoup their costs on it. Likewise, a fairly priced 1:50 will most likely only be bought by someone looking for that book specifically, so why chain the stores hands behind their backs when someone is willing to pay it? |
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Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @James Thanks for the input. I was certainly not blaming the retailers. At least not mainly or solely. There is certainly enough blame to go around. Publishers, retailers and collectors all bear a portion of responsibility. I'm glad to hear that these only account for a small amount of the profit margin. I was worried that if it was a large amount, many LCS would be in financial trouble if/when the bubble finally bursts and they no longer have the profits from variants to rely on. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| All variants should be cover price. Always. You think Target or Walmart gets to upcharge a variant action figure that is a 1 per case toy? No. Why should comics be any different? That should be up to the secondary market. Period. |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke I would disagree. The market set the practice and have accepted that dealers charge more. Do I agree with it no BUT it is their right to ask for more money. Why should they have to leave money on the table and only the secondary market benefit? |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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James private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke That's a disingenuous comparison. We don't mark up the 1 per case toys we get either. And we get many of the same toys as Wal-Mart and Target. You're comparing something that is mostly random to something that is a targeted purchase with increased costs. If Marvel did their variants the same way, where you had X% chance to get a certain cover based on what you ordered, then it would be similar. Here's a question - you go into your LCS and want the Darth Vader #1 1:50. They tell you it will be $28 because they only order 25 copies and have to up their order 100%. Are they fleecing you? |
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| i presume that would partially be effected by the fact most comic stores, whether high street or online, are independent and dont have the purchase power of a big chain. A chain or large business has the ability to place orders for 100,000+ units of single items (if were talking items other than comics) which is unimaginable for most independent companies. Video game market in the UK for example is so heavily sided to these bigger chains that it's virtually impossible to thrive as an independent with 'new' stock. id be buying at £33 a unit and buying a couple of hundred but a chain of supermarkets would be buying 100,000+ for the entire country and be buying these in at £20 a unit. Great profit for them on a £35-£40 sell but nothing for the smaller business, especially after postage. I would think this would be the exact situation for action figures as an example. Do you guys have many comic chains in the US? |
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oxbladder The incentives should be priced differently.....for the distributor/retailer to purchase. If they want to put it on the srcondary market for resale, then of course, maybe a premium should be applied initially. Let the market decide that premium, not the publishing companies. I think you missed that point, because, that is pretty much the case with all items that are bought and sold for the secondary market. |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by James 1 per case isn't random. Buy more cases, get more variants. |
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James private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Either way, Wal-Mart is not increasing their orders to get more of the one per case figures. Comic stores provide a service by offering the incentive variants. If someone wants one, we will order it, but why should we lose money on it just because you want it at cover price? If it costs me $28 to get the book, I'm sure not taking a $24 loss on it just so you can have it at $3.99. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by James The way you lay it out wouldn't cause me to bat an eye. However, most LCS don't do that. They jack the price up as high as possible or they flip them on eBay themselves at a higher price to make more $$$'s. (I don't have an issue with someone attempting to make a profit. Good for them.) It is just that I've seen this business model before and it caused the downfall of the industry. Having seen the collapse once before I don't chase variants unless I can get them at next to nothing prices. I ain't gonna be holding onto a bunch of worthless comics again. |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I said it before...All variants are not equal, and they should not be lumped together arbitrarily into a comment that says "all variants blah blah blah..." | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It wasn't variants or gimmicks that caused the crash. What happened is there was an influx of people from the card collecting crash and they fluffed up the numbers. When they left in droves later it took months for retailers, etc to catch up to the drop in numbers. The only aspect that the current incentive market introduces is that it has caused retailers and publishers to lose track of the real numbers. |
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| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego I agree. Try finding Amazing Spider-man 688 at a good price. Jesus. I've been looking for ages. I should have pulled the trigger on the one a few weeks ago that ended at $404. ARG |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @kaptainmyke you should be saving for that TMNT #1. | ||
| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
If I had 20 grand I'd be considering a down payment on a car for my lovely wife instead  |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Marvel variants be it 1:15 or 1:50 tend have prices printed on them. My feeling is that for new release week, the MFers should cost cover price. | ||
| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Boom. Original suggested retail price. That's all I'm trying to say here. Not my fault if a hole in the wall comic book store isn't big enough to order 1000 copies of one title. That's why I barely see my LCS but once a month. She's not big enough for my needs! (OOCQ thread here i come!) Can't say I blame them however. I have a theory on how this all happened. Not because of card collectors, magic collectors, or pog collectors. It's the big chain "let's sell everything" stores' fault. That's why wal-mart, target, k-mart, kroger, fry's, randall's, albertson's, and all other big stores should sell comics again. You know, because they are big enough to and we little guys score like the lottery when there is a variant sitting there on the rack for you at cover price. That's where the original spirit of all this came from. Where did it all go? When big boxers stopped selling comics. The death of Newsstand Editions. That's when. That's why Newsstands are heating up now. People are tired of the variant chasing madness. I have more fun chasing down original older earlier work of JSC now than ever before. |
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aerischan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke I think the newsstands/chains were mostly out of the picture when incentive variants became en vogue. Quote: Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Quite honestly, I don't feel any sympathy for ebay scalpers. |
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comicsforme private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Walmart,Krogers and so on put a price list on its sticker and dont hike the price before it comes to the store. Variants are not the same ,a price sticker for $3.99 is what it should be not go to the comic store and change the price because ebay is selling this price the day it comes out. Sounds like black mail. I could see mabey a week later but not before you even buy it. I have one store that doesn't hike prices on his store for variants because he knows its all speculation like wallstreet and his sticker price is what it says. If its $3.99 thats what it is. Honest man. | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The whole point of incentive covers is that the shop gets to charge more for rarity. Instead of having an MSRP on the cover they should have no price on the cover. Let the market forces decide, which is how it is now for the most part, except all incentives come with a cover price that is never realized because the book is usually already worth more than cover in just rarity alone. | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Come on guys, by and large comic stores sell collectibles. You can't expect to pay cover price on a collectible whether it be a day old or 100 years old. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to pay 10c for golden age books  |
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| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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rtdcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @comicsforme with this LCS youve mentioned a couple of times that doesnt raise prices is this someone that sells the 1:50, 1:100, 1:1000 etc at base price or we talking just the low end variants and up to say a 1:25 I couldn't imagine anyone, purely down to the financially ramifications, that would sell the high end variants at base price whether they know the price will drop in a week or 2 or not. Yeah it would be great for his customers to pick up these 'rare' books for next to nothing but wouldnt do himself any favours for his business finances |
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I would too, but we're not talking about golden age books. A Marvel book with a $3.99 price tag printed on the book shouldn't be marked up 13x what the cover price is on its release date. |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| But the $3.99 is the regular price. You can't expect to pay $3.99 for a variant that is 100 times rarer than the regular book just because the publisher is lazy and reuses the same trade dress as the regular. It would be nice if they just left the price blank, but I suppose there might be some kind of legal requirement to have a price on it. | ||
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rtdcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Studley_Dudley in an ideal world I completely agree it shouldnt have such a high mark up, but when the retailer has potentially had to lay down an extra $500/$1000 to obtain the numbers to qualify for the variant its unrealistic for them to be expected to drop it at standard price. The publishers are creating the buzz/limited availability for the book which is creating this demand among collectors/flippers but this shouldnt be at the retailers expense and we shouldnt expect them to obtain it for us without some knock on effect. | ||
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Then the publisher needs to unfudge themselves and remove the cover price from the book. IDW does it and because of that, I understand when it gets marked up some. | ||
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James private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego I'm not so sure of that, as some publishers do ship their Incentive Variants with no price. Check an IDW 1:10 or higher next time you see one, you'll see the bar code/ UPC but the space you would normally have a price listed is blank. |
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