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Ardian Syaf's racial messages2546

Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Why is that nice? It's his property and his speech. "Muslim Free Zone" is not hate, it's a statement of fact about that man's property. That SIG offends people? So what? Be offended, it doesn't hurt you to be offended. I'm offended by "Gun Free Zones."


It is "nice" that the sign was removed because the sign did not promote decent behavior.


So?

If I protect the right of someone to say something I detest, others will protect the right of me to say things they detest.

Who decides what is, and what is not, "decent behavior"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
It may not be flat out hate speech, but those sort of signs certainly lend themselves to bigotry.


So?

If I stand up for the right of someone to say something I detest, others will stand up for my rights, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
"Gun free zone" is not remotely comparable to the underlying sentiment that a "Muslim free zone" represents.


Why not? "Gun free zones" are immensely more dangerous than "Muslim free zones." Why do people target schools more often than police stations...? Because schools are "gun free zones"...meaning the criminal is much less likely to meet with return fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
A actual comparison would be a sign thst declared "Catholic free zone".Or insert Jew, Christian in place of Catholic or Muslim.


Ok...and I'll protect someone's right to have such a zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
A "Muslim Free Zone" is a blanket statement against Muslims, which is woefully ignorant.

Ignorance and racism go hand in hand.

.

.


I guess that depends on what you call "racism", since "Muslim" isn't a race.

Regardless...when you start forcing people that "this speech is acceptable, and this is not"...no matter how reasonable, rational, and justifiable you think you may be....and you may be!...someone will inevitably come along and apply those same standards to you.
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
By the way...the whole "it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated" comments...?

Is it hate speech? Who knows? Who decides what is, and what is not, "hate"? Almost universally, the people in power.

I get called vile names...I've been called vile names by some of you under your breath, and some not so under...because I have the nerve to disagree with people. Would my "speech" be curtailed, and have there been many calls for me to be banned, for various reasons, in various places...?

Absolutely.

When pressed to find actual examples of "rule breaking", it's never found. People are merely offended that someone speaks confidently and challenges their notions...right, wrong, or indifferent; it's merely the challenge that they find so desperately offensive.

But here's the difference: I would never, and have never, advocated for people to be banned (that is, silenced), regardless of what they've said to or about me.

But this isn't about me...it's about "what is hate speech"?

Frankly, such a term should be actively countered, at every level, by everyone.

Here's reality: if you advocate for shutting down someone...anyone...because you disagree with what they're saying...eventually, someone is going to come along and shut YOU down, and use the exact same reasoning...AND have precedent justifying them.

No the very phrase "hate speech" should be classified as hate speech, and nothing else.

So long as this guy has the right to say things I detest...I can have the right to say things he detests. Once you start banning this, and banning that, and calling for people to be silenced...you will find it a very slippery road you're going down.


I agree with the slippery slope and do not believe in censorship.

There is a line between censorship and protecting minorities, such as Muslims.

You cannot compare your personal experiences on a message board, or what some ignorant fool paints on a sign, with the millions of minorities who have been subject to steadily increasing amounts of violence and persecution.

Which has been largely incited by the mentality expoused by our current president.

"Build the wall" goes hand in hand with "Nuslim Free Zone".

Two different minorities, they are being persecuted all the same.

The increasing projection of our country into an oligarchy, is the slippery slope that all Americans should be concerned with.

Not "Gun Free Zone" signs or other things that the far right rolls out as shiny objects....all the while, the very fabric of our Democratic institutions is becoming unraveled.

Tgere is a $500 billion dollar deal for oil that Rex Tillerson.....incidentally our newly appointed SOS, happens to be super chummy with Putin.

The Young Turks, friends.

Have a listen to them, not me.

...and with that, I am bowing out of this thread.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Muslims are a minority now? I think they outnumber almost every other religion on Earth.
Post 53 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
The increasing projection of our country into an oligarchy, is the slippery slope that all Americans should be concerned with.

Not "Gun Free Zone" signs or other things that the far right rolls out as shiny objects....all the while, the very fabric of our Democratic institutions is becoming unraveled.


You do realize that eliminating guns and our ability to fight back during a totalitarian takeover is plan #1 of the very oligarchy of which you speak right?

Also, we're a Republic, not a Democracy, there's a difference, and it's important to know why.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown I'd like to buy you a beer
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
By the way...the whole "it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated" comments...?

Is it hate speech? Who knows? Who decides what is, and what is not, "hate"? Almost universally, the people in power.

I get called vile names...I've been called vile names by some of you under your breath, and some not so under...because I have the nerve to disagree with people. Would my "speech" be curtailed, and have there been many calls for me to be banned, for various reasons, in various places...?

Absolutely.

When pressed to find actual examples of "rule breaking", it's never found. People are merely offended that someone speaks confidently and challenges their notions...right, wrong, or indifferent; it's merely the challenge that they find so desperately offensive.

But here's the difference: I would never, and have never, advocated for people to be banned (that is, silenced), regardless of what they've said to or about me.

But this isn't about me...it's about "what is hate speech"?

Frankly, such a term should be actively countered, at every level, by everyone.

Here's reality: if you advocate for shutting down someone...anyone...because you disagree with what they're saying...eventually, someone is going to come along and shut YOU down, and use the exact same reasoning...AND have precedent justifying them.

No the very phrase "hate speech" should be classified as hate speech, and nothing else.

So long as this guy has the right to say things I detest...I can have the right to say things he detests. Once you start banning this, and banning that, and calling for people to be silenced...you will find it a very slippery road you're going down.


I agree with the slippery slope and do not believe in censorship.

There is a line between censorship and protecting minorities, such as Muslims.


And what is that line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
You cannot compare your personal experiences on a message board, or what some ignorant fool paints on a sign,


Why not? The root of it is "I am offended by what X is saying, so I will shut it down, or try to."

That's the root of all of the situations, regardless of the details.

I'm "offended" by many of the things you say. I think you play much too cavalierly with facts, and I think that people who follow your advice would, more often than not, wind up doing more bad for themselves than good.

Do I think you should be silenced? Hell no.I think you should be perfectly free to say whatever you wish to say, so that others can correct where you've got it wrong, and learn from you when you've got it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
with the millions of minorities who have been subject to steadily increasing amounts of violence and persecution.


Oh, you mean like the Coptics who were just blown up in Egypt...? How about the christians in Muslim majority nations? How about the million+ Jews who were forced out of Arab and Muslim majority nations after the foundation of Israel in 1948, from communities which, in some cases, had been in existence for thousands of years, their land and property taken from them without payment? Who protected those minorities?

THAT is the minorities you're referring to...right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Which has been largely incited by the mentality expoused by our current president.


"Espoused." And what about the mentality espoused by our former presidents...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
"Build the wall" goes hand in hand with "Nuslim Free Zone".


So, even though every other nation on earth rigorously protects its borders...try to show up in the UK without means of support, and see what happens to you...but the US is expected to have open borders, and unfettered access to the nation's resources...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Two different minorities, they are being persecuted all the same.


Wait...I wasn't aware that "illegal immigrants" were members of a minority class. Which one...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
The increasing projection of our country into an oligarchy, is the slippery slope that all Americans should be concerned with.


I doubt you'd be able to explain what that means without using those words. I don't even know what "the projection of our country into an oligarchy" even means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Not "Gun Free Zone" signs or other things that the far right rolls out as shiny objects....all the while, the very fabric of our Democratic institutions is becoming unraveled.


Right. Like "free speech."

We don't live in a democracy, by the way. We live in a representative republic. There's a massive, wonderful difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Tgere is a $500 billion dollar deal for oil that Rex Tillerson.....incidentally our newly appointed SOS, happens to be super chummy with Putin.

The Young Turks, friends.

Have a listen to them, not me.


Yes, and after that, please feel free to listen to the opposing view, just to be balanced. You listen to extremists. That's fine, but understand that they're extremists.

After all...what does a "$500 billion dollar (dept. of redundancy dept.) deal for oil" mean...? Is Rex Tillerson getting all that money? Don't know, CAK doesn't say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
...and with that, I am bowing out of this thread.


Probably a good idea.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@DocBrown I'd like to buy you a beer


I'll drink that one.

It's probably the first one that wouldn't be spiked with ex-lax.

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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user

Post 58 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
It's not a handful of radicals. The IRA was a handful of radicals. If you think Islamic Fundamentalism is only a "handful" you have been ignoring world events for the last two decades.


The IRA had a bigger army than Al Queda and ISIL currently do. The IRA numbered nearly 30,000 during "The Troubles" fighting on an island roughly the size of Illinois. ISIL is estimated between 9000 to 18000 per US intelligence fighting in an area three times the size of Texas.


I didn't interject the IRA comparison. I was just responding to the comparison someone else brought up. As a percentage of population and overall size, ISIL is a small group of nutjobs within the Islamic community equal to that of Christianity's klan and neo-nazis affiliations.

You may not like the comparison, and dismiss it as a false equivalency, but their are more familiarities than there are differences.

The real irony, and what's making me laugh, is that all this started over an artist's drawing in a comic that 99.9% of the US population is clueless about.
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Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
The NY Times ran an article on the situation.

clickable text
Post 60 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
It's not a handful of radicals. The IRA was a handful of radicals. If you think Islamic Fundamentalism is only a "handful" you have been ignoring world events for the last two decades.


The IRA had a bigger army than Al Queda and ISIL currently do. The IRA numbered nearly 30,000 during "The Troubles" fighting on an island roughly the size of Illinois. ISIL is estimated between 9000 to 18000 per US intelligence fighting in an area three times the size of Texas.


I didn't interject the IRA comparison. I was just responding to the comparison someone else brought up. As a percentage of population and overall size, ISIL is a small group of nutjobs within the Islamic community equal to that of Christianity's klan and neo-nazis affiliations.


It's "ISIS." Only the former president and certain wonks in Washington call it "ISIL", despite their best efforts.

Your equivalency, that ISIS is a "small group of nutjobs within the Islamic community" the same way that the Klan and neo-nazis are to christianity, is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
You may not like the comparison, and dismiss it as a false equivalency, but their are more familiarities than there are differences.


I don't dislike the comparison at all. In fact, if it were accurate, it would be apt. However, the equivalency is dismissed as false because it is false.

When Muslims commit violence in the name of Islam, they are acting in concert with the tenets expressed in the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

When Klan members and "neo-nazis" (whoever those are) commit violence in the name of christianity, they are acting in opposition to the tenets expressed in the collection of writings known as the New Testament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by occ
The real irony, and what's making me laugh, is that all this started over an artist's drawing in a comic that 99.9% of the US population is clueless about.


Why is that ironic? Do you consider comics an inferior form of expression, not worth the attention of the mainstream? I don't. Are these principles negated because of where they appear to the public?
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain

Yet no other religion is trying to carry out a Caliphate in the entire world, eliminate all other forms of government except Sharia--the type of government their "prophet" wanted the whole world to follow. That isn't radical Islam. It's Fundmental Islam. And anyone who doesn't know this doesn't follow the Quran or the Hadith or just chooses to ignore those verses/passages.

I believe in separation between Church and State. Anyone who can practice his/her religion peacefully and personally is good, but no belief should be forced on anyone. It's a personal choice.


Islam is not trying to create a Caliphate throughout the world, a small handful of radicals are.

Muslims do not deserve to be lumped in with a bunch of loons no more than Christianity deserves to be lumped in with neo-nazis or the klan.

No religion is exempt from their fair share of nutjobs.


That's a false equivalency.

I doubt CBCS is going to be willing to have an in-depth discussion as to why.


That is certainly not a false equivalency.
Post 62 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
The increasing projection of our country into an oligarchy, is the slippery slope that all Americans should be concerned with.

Not "Gun Free Zone" signs or other things that the far right rolls out as shiny objects....all the while, the very fabric of our Democratic institutions is becoming unraveled.


You do realize that eliminating guns and our ability to fight back during a totalitarian takeover is plan #1 of the very oligarchy of which you speak right?

Also, we're a Republic, not a Democracy, there's a difference, and it's important to know why.


I said nothing about eliminating gun rights.

Where did I name whst sort of society thst we live in, within the bolded qoute that you ( and later Doc Brown) jumped on as in correct?

Read that bolded post again, you are both mistaken.

Edit:
I removed the bold emphasis on the typeset, because bolding it screwed up the qoute format.

This is what I posted, that Doc and Darth misunderstood:

"all the while, the very fabric of our Democratic institutions is becoming unraveled."
Post 63 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Muslims are a minority now? I think they outnumber almost every other religion on Earth.


Within the US, Muslims are a minority.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/27/10-facts-about-religion-in-america/
Post 64 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain

Yet no other religion is trying to carry out a Caliphate in the entire world, eliminate all other forms of government except Sharia--the type of government their "prophet" wanted the whole world to follow. That isn't radical Islam. It's Fundmental Islam. And anyone who doesn't know this doesn't follow the Quran or the Hadith or just chooses to ignore those verses/passages.

I believe in separation between Church and State. Anyone who can practice his/her religion peacefully and personally is good, but no belief should be forced on anyone. It's a personal choice.


Islam is not trying to create a Caliphate throughout the world, a small handful of radicals are.

Muslims do not deserve to be lumped in with a bunch of loons no more than Christianity deserves to be lumped in with neo-nazis or the klan.

No religion is exempt from their fair share of nutjobs.


That's a false equivalency.

I doubt CBCS is going to be willing to have an in-depth discussion as to why.


That is certainly not a false equivalency.


I'm game...

Why not...?

Considering what I've said above.
Post 65 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Muslims are a minority now? I think they outnumber almost every other religion on Earth.


Within the US, Muslims are a minority.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/27/10-facts-about-religion-in-america/


Did you see my posts above?
Post 66 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
@ DocBrown

Cheers for themisinformation, and misdirection, in response to every point I made.

Good job.

Condervatives like to paint The Young Turks as extremists but they are not.

In polling results on every major issue, the overwhelming majority of Americans, are on the same page as the opinions/positions expressed by Cenk of the TYT.

The very same thing applies to the politician who has the highest favorbility rating in our country i.e. Bernie Sanders.

Now, I am done.
Post 67 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
@ DocBrown

Cheers for themisinformation, and misdirection, in response to every point I made.


Such as...?

Come on, CAK, make the case. If what I've said is misinformed and misdirected, show how. Here's your opportunity...take advantage of it.

See, I take you seriously, while you do not extend the same courtesy. I'm willing to hear you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Good job.

Condervatives like to paint The Young Turks as extremists but they are not.


Oh, you are quite incorrect. I don't know what a "Condervative" is, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
In polling results on every major issue, the overwhelming majority of Americans, are on the same page as the opinions/positions expressed by Cenk of the TYT.


Alright...what are some of the opinions/positions expressed by Cenk Uygur, and which polling indicated that the overwhelming majority of Americans are on the same page?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
The very same thing applies to the politician who has the highest favorbility rating in our country i.e. Bernie Sanders.


Bernie Sanders is an avowed socialist, with very little understanding of many, many things about economics and political theory. He is decidedly leftist, admittedly so, and does not...at all...represent the mainstream of current political ideology in the United States.

He would be a disaster with actual power, and we would be well on our way to the destruction of this nation.

Don't believe me?

Venezuela, with the largest oil reserves in the entire world, is a wreck. The richest people in Venezuela are politicians and their families, while people literally starve in the streets:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/starving-venezuelans-giving-away-children-survive-economic-crisis-a7479756.html

Everyone in Venezuela should be living like people do in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan...but they don't, because of disastrous socialist policies that destroy people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Now, I am done.


CAK...it's not very fair or honest of you to make claims, and refuse to explain or justify them.

I go to great lengths to make sure people not only know where I'm coming from, but why. Too long for many, but at least no one can say "why do you think this way?"
Post 68 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Doc, it is clear that you and I have fundamental disagreements about our country.

I am not being unfair or unkind to you when I say that I don't want to go tit for tat with you, on a discussion regarding politics.

Your statements about Sanders reinforce that even more.It would be unoroductive and a large waste of your time, and mine as well, to go tit for tat on all of these issues.

I will say that Sanders refers to himself as a democratic socialist and a progressive.

Not an "avowed socialist".

Sanders has held the same positions for the 40+ years he has ran for/held public office.

Out current POTUS is the real threat to our country, he ran as a friend of the working class, said he'd favor workers' rights over Wall Street et al.. and said ge was going to "drain the swamp".

Trump filled his cabinet with Wall Street billionaires, he did the very opposite of draining the swamp.He took advantage of a country whetein most people are woefully ignorant of what our elected tepresentatives actually represent.

As more and more Trump voters realize Trump does not care about the poor (drastic cuts to meals on wheels and his proposed heathcare bill for starters, even Trump voters are starting to realize they have been bamboozled.

Calling Sanders a danger to our country is simply not factually correct.Neither is asserting that his positions, if you look at poll after poll, are shared by the overwhelming majority of people who live in the US.

He has been on the right side of history for 40+ years.

Fighting for workers' rights...the notion thst universal healthcare is a right for all Americans...getting money out of politics...civil rights for blacks in the 60's ....and civil rights for gays in the 80's and 90's, well before Obama and Clinton....and Sanders has changed none of his positions.

Honestly, I do not see the point of discussing this any more, on a forum intended for funny books.Out of respect for our host, as well, I am now bowing out...for the final time ☺
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
One last thing, I do take you seriously.

And I respect your opinions, as well.

The same applies to DarthLego.
Post 70 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Hillary was a real threat, which is why she lost.

Anyone who doesn't agree with the constitutional republic the way our founders created it is welcome to relocate...Oh, wait, that's right, every other country on Earth believes in border security and proper immigration laws...Guess you're stuck with freedom and liberty, suck it up buttercups.
Post 71 IP   flag post
Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Doc, it is clear that you and I have fundamental disagreements about our country.

I am not being unfair or unkind to you when I say that I don't want to go tit for tat with you, on a discussion regarding politics.

Your statements about Sanders reinforce that even more.It would be unoroductive and a large waste of your time, and mine as well, to go tit for tat on all of these issues.

I will say that Sanders refers to himself as a democratic socialist and a progressive.

Not an "avowed socialist".

Sanders has held the same positions for the 40+ years he has ran for/held public office.

Out current POTUS is the real threat to our country, he ran as a friend of the working class, said he'd favor workers' rights over Wall Street et al.. and said ge was going to "drain the swamp".

Trump filled his cabinet with Wall Street billionaires, he did the very opposite of draining the swamp.He took advantage of a country whetein most people are woefully ignorant of what our elected tepresentatives actually represent.

As more and more Trump voters realize Trump does not care about the poor (drastic cuts to meals on wheels and his proposed heathcare bill for starters, even Trump voters are starting to realize they have been bamboozled.

Calling Sanders a danger to our country is simply not factually correct.Neither is asserting that his positions, if you look at poll after poll, are shared by the overwhelming majority of people who live in the US.

He has been on the right side of history for 40+ years.

Fighting for workers' rights...the notion thst universal healthcare is a right for all Americans...getting money out of politics...civil rights for blacks in the 60's ....and civil rights for gays in the 80's and 90's, well before Obama and Clinton....and Sanders has changed none of his positions.

Honestly, I do not see the point of discussing this any more, on a forum intended for funny books.Out of respect for our host, as well, I am now bowing out...for the final time ☺


Hey, the Water Cooler opened up for business right here, right now.
Post 72 IP   flag post
Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Looks like Marvel fired him:

clickable text

“Marvel has terminated Ardian Syaf’s contract effective immediately. ‘X-Men Gold’ #2 and #3 featuring his work have already been sent to the printer and will continue to ship bi-weekly. Issues #4, #5, and #6 will be drawn by R. B. Silva and issues #7, #8, and #9 will be drawn by Ken Lashley. A permanent replacement artist will be assigned to ‘X-Men Gold’ in the coming weeks.”
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
Hopefully they check his work on the new issues, although admittedly his references were completely obscure to me.
Post 74 IP   flag post
-Our Odin-
Rest in Peace
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
I think Steven Finkel from The Comic Mint came up with a great solution for those retailers that don't know what to do with their copies. He just listed his 10 copies together as one lot with 100% going to the anti defamation league.

eBay auction link
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COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
I think Steven Finkel from The Comic Mint came up with a great solution for those retailers that don't know what to do with their copies. He just listed his 10 copies together as one lot with 100% going to the anti defamation league.

eBay auction link


Kudos to him and I agree this is a very good response. Lets turn this negative to a positive ... and this is a good start
Post 76 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Doc, it is clear that you and I have fundamental disagreements about our country.


We agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
I am not being unfair or unkind to you when I say that I don't want to go tit for tat with you, on a discussion regarding politics.


What does "tit for tat" mean to you? Does it mean an open discussion of disagreements? Why use the phrase "tit for tat", which has a generally negative connotation? I think what I have to say is worth consideration, and far more than a "tit for tat" characterization. Don't you think what you say has value...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Your statements about Sanders reinforce that even more.It would be unoroductive and a large waste of your time, and mine as well, to go tit for tat on all of these issues.


How you choose to spend your time is none of my concern...conversely, how I spend mine is none of yours. It's not a waste of MY time at all...in fact, it's critical to discuss these things, so people are aware of the real differences in ideology, and can choose for themselves where they stand.

Nevertheless, you need not believe me...look at the proof around you. Everywhere, and every time, socialism is employed, it destroys people.

The USSR. China. Cuba. Venezuela. Brazil. The UK. France. Sweden. The list goes on and on and on.

And the excuse is always "oh, THAT socialism wasn't the RIGHT socialism. They just didn't do it correctly. We need THIS kind of socialism, and THEN it will work."

And yet, it never has. Ever. And the answer is never "well, ok, that failed the 437 times it's been tried...let's try something different." No, it's always "THOSE people didn't do it RIGHT."

At some point, you'd think they'd learn, but they have a vested interest in not knowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
I will say that Sanders refers to himself as a democratic socialist and a progressive.

Not an "avowed socialist".


There is no difference between a "democratic socialist" and a socialist. Yes, I'm aware that Bernie thinks there is...there isn't. "Avowed" simply means he's openly committed to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Sanders has held the same positions for the 40+ years he has ran for/held public office.


Yes, and it amazes me that someone can get to his age and still believe these things. The reality is, Sanders has made a career on public money. He's never run a business, never had to make payroll, never worried about how he's going to pay his vendors, etc. He has no clue how business works, but he thinks his "theory" will solve these problems.

It is breathtaking how someone his age can still be such an ideologue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Out current POTUS is the real threat to our country, he ran as a friend of the working class, said he'd favor workers' rights over Wall Street et al.. and said ge was going to "drain the swamp".

Trump filled his cabinet with Wall Street billionaires, he did the very opposite of draining the swamp.He took advantage of a country whetein most people are woefully ignorant of what our elected tepresentatives actually represent.

As more and more Trump voters realize Trump does not care about the poor (drastic cuts to meals on wheels and his proposed heathcare bill for starters, even Trump voters are starting to realize they have been bamboozled.


In three paragraphs, you've failed to note what the "threat" that Trump represents actually is.

The man hasn't been president for three months yet. Three months. And yet you listen to folks like Cenk Uygur, radical leftists, tell you how terrible he is?

Let's clear up some confusion on your part:

1. The president does not propose legislation. That is what Congress does, and only Congress can do it. Obamacare would have been more appropriately called PelosiReidcare, but the fact is, it wasn't Trump's "proposed healthcare bill."

2. "Drastic cuts to meals on wheels." Since when has it been the Federal Gov't's responsibility to provide social services to its citizens? The answer is never, and we are living in a post-Constitutional era. The Feds have taken control of massive sectors of the nation, all quite illegally (we call it "unconstitutionally" ), and not at all what the Founders intended.

3. "Trump filled his cabinet with Wall Street billionaires."

So? Does being a "Wall Street billionaire" (whatever THAT means) make someone evil? Does it make them unqualified to serve? Do YOU know what a "Wall Street billionaire" really IS? Besides "they made billions on Wall Street!"...and? What does that mean, with reference to their fitness to serves in the Cabinet? Do you know...?

4. "He said he would drain the swamp." And you think, because he's put "rich people" in his Cabinet, that he's actually FILLING the swamp...? What about the fact that the gov't is now in the hands of political outsiders, rather than the establishment (which consists of both parties)...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Calling Sanders a danger to our country is simply not factually correct.


Venezeula. Cuba. USSR. France. China. These are the people with whom Sanders has the most political agreement, to a lesser or greater extent.

Tell me...who wants to emigrate to those countries from other first world nations...?

People are literally starving in the streets of Venezuela because of the same policies that Bernie Sanders advocates.

You think that's not a danger...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Neither is asserting that his positions, if you look at poll after poll, are shared by the overwhelming majority of people who live in the US.


I've asked you before: which ones? Can you cite one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
He has been on the right side of history for 40+ years.


Only if you're a radical leftist, who thinks authoritarian "redistribution" is the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Fighting for workers' rights


How's that working in Venezuela...?

What workers' rights have any value when there's nowhere to work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
...the notion thst universal healthcare is a right for all Americans


Show me that in the Constitution. Where does it say "universal healthcare is a right for all Americans"...?

Do you know whose constitution it DOES show up in...?

"Article 42: Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life."

(Constitution of the USSR, 1936.)

https://nintil.com/2016/03/29/the-soviet-union-healthcare/

How about these gems:

"Medical treatment must be made available to all classes; hopeless incurables must be remorselessly sterilized."

"...Bouhler and Dr. Brandt are entrusted with the responsibility of extending the authority of physicians, to be designated by name, so that patients who, after a most critical diagnosis, on the basis of human judgment, are considered incurable, can be granted mercy death "

(Action T-4)

https://www.britannica.com/event/T4-Program


Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
...getting money out of politics...


That's a slogan that has no real meaning. The only way to "get money out of politics" is for no one to ever run for office ever again. Running for office costs money. Ads cost money. Travel costs money. Paperwork costs money. There's no getting around it: so long as people are elected, it will cost money. There's no way to "get money out of politics."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
civil rights for blacks in the 60's


That was 50 years ago. Great strides were made. But Sanders wants to go backwards, in the "name" of "progress" because he believes, as many leftists do, that the race situation in America is as bad as, or worse than, it was then.

Demonstrably, it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
....and civil rights for gays in the 80's and 90's, well before Obama and Clinton....


What civil rights were gay people being "denied" on the basis of their sexuality...? Civil rights, now, not personal freedoms CALLED "civil rights" by people with an agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
and Sanders has changed none of his positions.


That's not a good thing. People are supposed to grow, learn, and get wiser throughout their lives. Saying "I think the same things that I did 40 years ago!" isn't a badge of honor.

The truth is, CAK, I've listened to Sanders and Cenk and Maddow and others, enough to have an honest and informed response to the things they say. I listen to those I disagree with, and understand where they're coming from, whether I agree or not.

Can you say the same...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Honestly, I do not see the point of discussing this any more, on a forum intended for funny books.Out of respect for our host, as well, I am now bowing out...for the final time ☺


You've said that...several times before. Do you mean it this time...?

You can't have it both ways. Either do what you said you were going to do and actually bow out...or continue the discussion. But don't signal your virtue by saying "I'm not going to get into a tit for tat", and then do exactly that.

There's respect in either position. Straddling the fence, not so much.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
One last thing, I do take you seriously.

And I respect your opinions, as well.

The same applies to DarthLego.


I take you seriously, in that I don't dismiss what you're saying offhand because it's said by you.

I don't respect your opinions, because no one's opinions are respect-worthy merely for being opinions. Only the truth is worthy of respect, regardless of where it comes from. Where your opinions line up with truth, I respect that, and where they don't, I don't.

And I expect no less in return.
Post 78 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
I think Steven Finkel from The Comic Mint came up with a great solution for those retailers that don't know what to do with their copies. He just listed his 10 copies together as one lot with 100% going to the anti defamation league.

eBay auction link


Very interesting. It will be interesting to see how this all falls out.
Post 79 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR BigRig private msg quote post Address this user
Im not one to argue over politics or any of that. I will say this and leave it at that...


Only from my own personal experiences.
All Muslims are not bad people. My neighbors were Muslims in fact. And they were some of the best people Iv meet and I have traveled all over our great country. They were always kind and said hello and asked how our day was every time we saw each other outside. They keep to them self and were the hardest working people I know. They had two jobs, he and his wife both. They just moved to WI this week and I hated to see them go. But when they left they knew our washing machine had just hit the bricks. We left for the weekend on vacation and didnt get to tell them good bye. Instead of taking their washer with them it was on our pourch. With a note saying they wanted to give it to us to use until we got a new one. I thought that was very nice of them. We cant group everyone in a certian class of people. Every religion race whatever has some bad eggs. What the artist did was wrong and honestly if not posted here or in the news now I wouldn't have never have known about it.

And no Im not a snowflake.
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