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Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by burntboy Somehow I never heard that story before. Does anyone know what that book then sold for at auction? Back around early 1963 I set off on the #23 Bus from Orange NJ with the O'Brien brothers to visit 2 used bookstores on Market St in Newark. I was specifically looking for a copy of Fantastic Four #4 (1st SA appearance of Sub Mariner). I had copies of all the books by then probably up to #11 or so, but #4 had never gotten to Sid's luncheonette where I bought most of my SA book collection. Found a mid grade copy at the second store and had to pay full 12cent price because the owner hadn't cut off the top 1/3 of the front cover as a remainder. It was and is one of My favorite books ever... Sid's Luncheonette... :cloud9: I don't know what that copy did, but I bet Richard Evans would know.
	8 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 55	55 FN_2199 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	You could grab an old Overstreet Price Guide and see for yourself, the research has already been conducted. Keys in any grade or high grade non-keys will have the most return on investment. The definition of "keys" will change from decade to decade *This strategy suggests that past performance = future results
	8 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by FN_2199 You could grab an old Overstreet Price Guide and see for yourself, the research has already been conducted. Keys in any grade or high grade non-keys will have the most return on investment. The definition of "keys" will change from decade to decade This strategy suggests that past performance = future results With the very important caveats that: 1. The Overstreet Price Guide has, for at least 25 years, been both resistant* to dynamic market changes, and reactionary to price trends. This has always been true of the OPG, but it is markedly so since the dawn of the internet. 2. Because of the point above, deflationary periods in the values of "key books" have been mostly understated. After all...people aren't happy if they see the value of what they own has gone down, and having a product that makes people unhappy means having a product that people won't continue to purchase. For instance...the great drawback of the late 90's was grossly understated in the OPG. Yes, between 1997 and 1998, they slashed prices on the "Good" and "Fine" categories, true...but the "NM" category remained essentially unchanged, even though the market was telling a wildly different story, especially for common, but key!, books from the 60's-80's. Anyone telling you "Amazing Fantasy #15 has NEVER gone down in value; it's a sure winner!" is both telling you something that isn't true, and probably trying to sell you one.
	8 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price.
	8 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make.
	8 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make. You still invested 10$, a price deemed to be FMV by the seller, into an item that you wish will increase in price. Wether the price increases instantly or ten years down the road, it is still an investment.
	8 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

Collector 1.86K	1.86K jrs private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@I_AM_IRON_MAN, agree 100%.
	8 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make. You still invested 10$, a price deemed to be FMV by the seller, into an item that you wish will increase in price. Wether the price increases instantly or ten years down the road, it is still an investment. No, that's just playing with the definition of the word "investment." By that reasoning, you could say buying a tank full of gas is an "investment" into me not being stranded on the road in the near future. And no, the seller didn't "deem" it to be "FMV", because one person doesn't decide FMV. FMV is established over a series of transactions, over a period of time. The seller decided $10 was a fair PRICE for that transaction...but that doesn't "fair market VALUE" make it.
	8 years ago	Post 33 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make. You still invested 10$, a price deemed to be FMV by the seller, into an item that you wish will increase in price. Wether the price increases instantly or ten years down the road, it is still an investment. No, that's just playing with the definition of the word "investment." By that reasoning, you could say buying a tank full of gas is an "investment" into me not being stranded on the road in the near future. And no, the seller didn't "deem" it to be "FMV", because one person doesn't decide FMV. FMV is established over a series of transactions, over a period of time. The seller decided $10 was a fair PRICE for that transaction...but that doesn't "fair market VALUE" make it. Then by your logic people have not been investing on the stock market for the past how many hundred years.
	8 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

Collector 1.86K	1.86K jrs private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Not sure why FMV matters in determining whether something is an investment. I view an investment as the outlay of capital with the hope and intention of making a profit, which is consistent with the definition: clickable text "Definition of investment : the outlay of money usually for income or profit" If I flip the item in a day and make a profit, it's a great investment. If I choose to hold the item in the hope of turning a profit, it's a long-term investment. Simple as that IMO.
	8 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Let's use a fungible example. If I buy an ounce of gold for $10, have I "invested" in an ounce of gold? No. I've bought an ounce of gold for far less than the established market price of that gold. How an investment is differentiated from an expenditure is the element of time. An investment is an allocation of resources, usually money, but not necessarily, in the hope of a future benefit. What you're talking about is arbitrage, which is taking advantage of a price difference between two markets...flipping...even if you plan to keep that ounce of gold or what have you for a later date (though technically, for genuine arbitrage, the transactions must occur simultaneously, or near simultaneously.) You haven't "invested", because there's (virtually) no risk involved in buying that ounce of gold...or Tec #27...for $10, because the market as it stands right now can instantly reward you with the difference in price...the benefit...that an investment cannot. That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today, and hoping that it goes up, not down, over time.
	8 years ago	Post 36 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Let's use a fungible example. If I buy an ounce of gold for $10, have I "invested" in an ounce of gold? No. I've bought an ounce of gold for far less than the established market price of that gold. How an investment is differentiated from an expenditure is the element of time. An investment is an allocation of resources, usually money, but not necessarily, in the hope of a future benefit. What you're talking about is arbitrage, which is taking advantage of a price difference between two markets...flipping...even if you plan to keep that ounce of gold or what have you for a later date. You haven't "invested", because there's (virtually) no risk involved in buying that ounce of gold...or Tec #27...for $10, because the market as it stands right now can instantly reward you with the difference in price...the benefit...that an investment cannot. That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today, and hoping that it goes up, not down, over time. So? Do banks offer short and long term investment options? If I buy a stock at open for 1.00$ and at 3pm it is at 4.00$ and I sell did I not invest my money and cash out that investment for a profit? Short term or long term, it is still an investment.
	8 years ago	Post 37 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 13.26K	13.26K shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today No. One can still invest in something while getting a deal on it and paying under FMV. I paid under fmv for my home. A home IS an investment. I regularly find comics for 80-90% under fmv that I consider an investment. Etc etc If one were to IMMEDIATELY flip a deal, that is not an investment. Anything that is left for any period of time to appreciate in value is an investment, no matter the purchase price
	8 years ago	Post 38 • IP flag post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today

No.

No.

There is still risk involved in investment, even if you "get a good deal."

"Getting a good deal" in an open market is not the same thing as arbitrage. "Getting a good deal" doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying FMV.

And, we can really get into the weeds about what actually constitutes "FMV", but I'm not really interested (mainly because such weedy discussions aren't allowed here.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrewbeer
One can still invest in something while getting a deal on it and paying under FMV. I paid 30k under fmv for my home. A home IS an investment. I regularly find comics for 80-90% under fmv that I consider an investment. Etc etc

You're practicing arbitrage, not investment.

8 years ago

Collector 1.86K	1.86K jrs private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@I_AM_IRON_MAN, @shrewbeer <--- ditto, what these guys said.
	8 years ago	Post 40 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today No. No. There is still risk involved in investment, even if you "get a good deal." "Getting a good deal" in an open market is not the same thing as arbitrage. "Getting a good deal" doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying FMV. And, we can really get into the weeds about what actually constitutes "FMV", but I'm not really interested (mainly because such weedy discussions aren't allowed here.) Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer One can still invest in something while getting a deal on it and paying under FMV. I paid 30k under fmv for my home. A home IS an investment. I regularly find comics for 80-90% under fmv that I consider an investment. Etc etc You're practicing arbitrage, not investment. Just because he paid 30k under MV for his home does not mean that there is no risk. The housing market could still collapse the next day or it could increase ten fold the next day, thus an investment
	8 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make. You still invested 10$, a price deemed to be FMV by the seller, into an item that you wish will increase in price. Wether the price increases instantly or ten years down the road, it is still an investment. No, that's just playing with the definition of the word "investment." By that reasoning, you could say buying a tank full of gas is an "investment" into me not being stranded on the road in the near future. And no, the seller didn't "deem" it to be "FMV", because one person doesn't decide FMV. FMV is established over a series of transactions, over a period of time. The seller decided $10 was a fair PRICE for that transaction...but that doesn't "fair market VALUE" make it. Then by your logic people have not been investing on the stock market for the past how many hundred years. Not correct. When you buy stocks, you are paying FMV for them. A share of Walmart common stock sits at $70.74 right now. You can't buy 10,000 shares of Walmart stock, as a normal investor, for $10 a share right now.
	8 years ago	Post 42 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Let's use a fungible example. If I buy an ounce of gold for $10, have I "invested" in an ounce of gold? No. I've bought an ounce of gold for far less than the established market price of that gold. How an investment is differentiated from an expenditure is the element of time. An investment is an allocation of resources, usually money, but not necessarily, in the hope of a future benefit. What you're talking about is arbitrage, which is taking advantage of a price difference between two markets...flipping...even if you plan to keep that ounce of gold or what have you for a later date. You haven't "invested", because there's (virtually) no risk involved in buying that ounce of gold...or Tec #27...for $10, because the market as it stands right now can instantly reward you with the difference in price...the benefit...that an investment cannot. That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today, and hoping that it goes up, not down, over time. So? Do banks offer short and long term investment options? If I buy a stock at open for 1.00$ and at 3pm it is at 4.00$ and I sell did I not invest my money and cash out that investment for a profit? Short term or long term, it is still an investment. "Risk" is the element you're not accounting for....and...there's still an element of time, short as it is, in your scenario. That is, I can't turn around and sell those shares for $4 the instant I buy them for $1. If I buy a Tec #27 for $10, I can instantly call someone and sell it for, say, $1,000, no questions asked.
	8 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Let's use a fungible example. If I buy an ounce of gold for $10, have I "invested" in an ounce of gold? No. I've bought an ounce of gold for far less than the established market price of that gold. How an investment is differentiated from an expenditure is the element of time. An investment is an allocation of resources, usually money, but not necessarily, in the hope of a future benefit. What you're talking about is arbitrage, which is taking advantage of a price difference between two markets...flipping...even if you plan to keep that ounce of gold or what have you for a later date. You haven't "invested", because there's (virtually) no risk involved in buying that ounce of gold...or Tec #27...for $10, because the market as it stands right now can instantly reward you with the difference in price...the benefit...that an investment cannot. That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today, and hoping that it goes up, not down, over time. So? Do banks offer short and long term investment options? If I buy a stock at open for 1.00$ and at 3pm it is at 4.00$ and I sell did I not invest my money and cash out that investment for a profit? Short term or long term, it is still an investment. "Risk" is the element you're not accounting for. How? the stock could just as easily go down!
	8 years ago	Post 44 • IP flag post

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN You can turn a profit by investing in any comic book that you purchase for the right price. Sure, but that's not investing...that's just flipping. Investing is buying something at "fair market value" now, in the hopes and expectations that it will rise in price and beat inflation (at the least.) If I stumble on granny's old 'Tec #27 that she insists I only pay her $10 for, I haven't really invested anything. Won the lottery, sure. but a sound investment strategy that does not make. You still invested 10$, a price deemed to be FMV by the seller, into an item that you wish will increase in price. Wether the price increases instantly or ten years down the road, it is still an investment. No, that's just playing with the definition of the word "investment." By that reasoning, you could say buying a tank full of gas is an "investment" into me not being stranded on the road in the near future. And no, the seller didn't "deem" it to be "FMV", because one person doesn't decide FMV. FMV is established over a series of transactions, over a period of time. The seller decided $10 was a fair PRICE for that transaction...but that doesn't "fair market VALUE" make it. Then by your logic people have not been investing on the stock market for the past how many hundred years. Not correct. When you buy stocks, you are paying FMV for them. A share of Walmart common stock sits at $70.74 right now. You can't buy 10,000 shares of Walmart stock, as a normal investor, for $10 a share right now. Yeah because the stock price is determined by someone offering an amount and someone accepting. Tell me the difference.
	8 years ago	Post 45 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today No. One can still invest in something while getting a deal on it and paying under FMV. I paid under fmv for my home. A home IS an investment. I regularly find comics for 80-90% under fmv that I consider an investment. Etc etc If one were to IMMEDIATELY flip a deal, that is not an investment. Anything that is left for any period of time to appreciate in value is an investment, no matter the purchase price You added more in an edit. That is what arbitrage is, and that is what "I am iron man" is describing...not "investing." Arbitrage is the immediate (or, in practical terms, near immediate) taking advantage of a price difference between two markets..."flipping." The difference, of course, is risk. In practical terms, buying a Tec #27 for $10 carries so little risk as to be functionally zero at the present time. But you can't go out and offer $10 for a Tec #27...no one with a copy will take you seriously. There is a significant element of luck...like "lottery winning" type luck...in such a find. That's not investing...that's being reallllly lucky.
	8 years ago	Post 46 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Let's use a fungible example. If I buy an ounce of gold for $10, have I "invested" in an ounce of gold? No. I've bought an ounce of gold for far less than the established market price of that gold. How an investment is differentiated from an expenditure is the element of time. An investment is an allocation of resources, usually money, but not necessarily, in the hope of a future benefit. What you're talking about is arbitrage, which is taking advantage of a price difference between two markets...flipping...even if you plan to keep that ounce of gold or what have you for a later date. You haven't "invested", because there's (virtually) no risk involved in buying that ounce of gold...or Tec #27...for $10, because the market as it stands right now can instantly reward you with the difference in price...the benefit...that an investment cannot. That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today, and hoping that it goes up, not down, over time. So? Do banks offer short and long term investment options? If I buy a stock at open for 1.00$ and at 3pm it is at 4.00$ and I sell did I not invest my money and cash out that investment for a profit? Short term or long term, it is still an investment. "Risk" is the element you're not accounting for. How? the stock could just as easily go down! Yes, that's what "risk" means. See my edit above.
	8 years ago	Post 47 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by I_AM_IRON_MAN Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown That risk is, of course, having to pay FMV for the item today No. No. There is still risk involved in investment, even if you "get a good deal." "Getting a good deal" in an open market is not the same thing as arbitrage. "Getting a good deal" doesn't necessarily mean you're not paying FMV. And, we can really get into the weeds about what actually constitutes "FMV", but I'm not really interested (mainly because such weedy discussions aren't allowed here.) Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer One can still invest in something while getting a deal on it and paying under FMV. I paid 30k under fmv for my home. A home IS an investment. I regularly find comics for 80-90% under fmv that I consider an investment. Etc etc You're practicing arbitrage, not investment. Just because he paid 30k under MV for his home does not mean that there is no risk. The housing market could still collapse the next day or it could increase ten fold the next day, thus an investment Yes, that's what I just said, in the post you just quoted, here: "There is still risk involved in investment, even if you "get a good deal." "
	8 years ago	Post 48 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	In other words...no one seriously considers spending your paycheck on lottery tickets an "investment", even if you might win the big one.
	8 years ago	Post 49 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 13.26K	13.26K shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Lmfaoooo its just semantics. If someone purchases something with the intent to immediately sell, that is not an investment. However, it matters not the purchase price nor value of the item nor the risk if someone purchases something with the intent to hold it while it appreciates in value. The difference in value of what one paid vs what it is worth is not part of the investment. If I pay $10 for a TEC27, and we get into nuclear war and the economy collapses, or if I drop it in a puddle on my way out the door and its run over by a mack truck and shat upon by a passing seagull... There is risk in everything. But, the point is moot. Risk has nothing to do with investing. As @jrs pointed out, the definition is simple; "the outlay of money usually for income or profit"
	8 years ago	Post 50 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 13.26K	13.26K shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown In other words...no one seriously considers spending your paycheck on lottery tickets an "investment", even if you might win the big one. Yeah we're pretty mich all saying the same thing but in a different language. That puts it nice and simple
	8 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Lmfaoooo its just semantics.

You can have a discussion...really...without the added "lmfaoooo" (which I guess is "off off off off"...?) It doesn't add to the discussion.

But no, it's not "just semantics."

Playing the lottery isn't "investing." It's gambling. There's a difference, and it's an important one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sb
If someone purchases something with the intent to immediately sell, that is not an investment.

True, but that's not what's being discussed. What's being discussed is the ability to sell immediately for a profit, by someone who is not a merchant of that item (which isn't investing, but plain ol' business.)

That is, arbitrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sb
However, it matters not the purchase price nor value of the item nor the risk if someone purchases something with the intent to hold it while it appreciates in value.

The difference in value of what one paid vs what it is worth is not part of the investment.

If I pay $10 for a TEC27, and we get into nuclear war and the economy collapses, or if I drop it in a puddle on my way out the door and its run over by a mack truck and shat upon by a passing seagull... There is risk in everything.

Hyperbole isn't a valid argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sb
But, the point is moot. Risk has nothing to do with investing. As @jrs pointed out, the definition is simple; "the outlay of money usually for income or profit"

Wrong.

Investment: "An investment is an asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or will appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or will be sold at a higher price for a profit."

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp#ixzz4clkuWl00

(emphasis added)

"With the hope" and "with the idea" = "risk."

Sorry, but your understanding of what an "investment" is is contrary to the definition of the word.

8 years ago

Collector 271	271 I_AM_IRON_MAN private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or will be sold at a higher price for a profit." I don't think I need to whip out the definition of future, but future can be a short time after the fact, no?
	8 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

Joined The Club 3.61K	3.61K Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	I love it when doc and beer are talking on the same subject. It's better than anything on tv right now
	8 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs
Not sure why FMV matters in determining whether something is an investment.

Because "getting lucky" isn't investing. Buying an item for substantially below what the market says it's worth isn't investing. It's "getting lucky."

If you buy an item, any item, for substantially below FMV (say, arbitrarily, 50% or more)...which is its fair MARKET value, right now...and you keep it, of course you can call it an "investment"...

...but you didn't INVEST in that item...you got lucky.

The proper meaning of the word "investing" isn't "stumbling upon something by luck and being able to purchase it for much less than FMV." It means "paying the going rate for something, in the hopes that you'll make more when you sell it in the future."

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs
I view an investment as the outlay of capital with the hope and intention of making a profit, which is consistent with the definition:

Correct..."with the hope and intention" = risk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs
clickable text

"Definition of investment
: the outlay of money usually for income or profit"

The definition includes the implied element of risk in the words "usually for..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs

If I flip the item in a day and make a profit, it's a great investment.

That's not an investment. What you're doing is called "arbitrage." The value of the book didn't increase in the market in that day. Of course, there are exceptions, but for the vast majority of items, the value of the item doesn't increase "in a day." You simply took advantage of a market discrepancy.

"Flipping" is practicing arbitrage...NOT "investing."

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrs
If I choose to hold the item in the hope of turning a profit, it's a long-term investment. Simple as that IMO.

I'm not talking about "long term" or "short term", but the difference between an "investment" and "arbitrage", which isn't semantics, and have two distinct, and important, meanings.

8 years ago

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