JSC X-Men Gold #1, opinions?2362
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| @KiloGraham XMENBLUE1 | ||
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| @DarthLego thank you!! | ||
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KiloGraham private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just ordered the blue to go with my gold set. Looks like they restocked on some of the 3 pack sets of gold covers too, if anyone was looking to get both sets and save on shipping. Still in stock as of writing this. | ||
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| That's not a good sign. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Actually it is a very disturbing if he increased his print run on the gold one after it sold out. If that is the case then I will stop buying from him. Blue one is also still available. Seems like he is loosing touch with his customers. |
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| On his twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/JScottCampbell/status/845782138549129217 |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Why would the first assumption be that print run was increased? Stock is always held back for con appearances. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego The issue is that he first stated 1200 of copy C gold and said sold out on his website/twitter just for one week later stating that back in stock with now 1440 copies. just plain wrong. Anybody who is not happy - reply is - feel free to cancel. Not surprised that blue is not selling well |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka That's it, I'm done with ordering from JSC. I understand his explanation, but he DID STATE it was a 1200 print run. Now the number went up? And telling someone to cancel their order is pretty shitty customer service. I know print numbers are never exact, but this is pretty blatant. |
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VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A cover = 3240 copies B cover = 2640 copies C cover = 1440 copies ---------------------- = 7320 copies If we use the cheapest option = A cover unsigned = $20 JSC et.al. stands to make $146,400 on this set alone- and that is an intentionally low ball estimate.  I'm going to get my kids some crayons and markers so they can practice drawing comics for a living. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by poka I agree, and from that Twitter convo he had with that guy who bought pretty much all his art works I'm also seeing that he's losing touch. We buy these limited runs based on finite print numbers. That's not the same as saying "art not final" to allow for artistic changes and alterations. By changing the number of books available after selling out what was believed to be a finite number of books it essentially devalues the book before it's even printed. We paid "X" amount of dollars for a 1200 print run book. We don't pay any less now that there's an additional 240 copies available, but JSC sees more profit if they sell out again. On top of that the books are now roughly 17% less rare than a week ago. And JSC can say "we didn't add these books based on presale demand, it was based on original print numbers blah blah blah", but what it comes down to is terms of sale and potential fraud. No where on the book's listing does it say "print numbers subject to change without notice". If anything the extra books they acquired should have been shredded to maintain the terms of the sale that were presented. Another thing to mention is the discount on the gold set was 15% but the blue set was only 10%. Chances are if you bought a gold set you probably felt you need the blue to have a complete set. Most who bought them probably bought both, not one or the other. Almost like we're nickel and dimed out of a few dollars more. |
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| Slowly, the secret is showing itself. Bum-bum-bummmmmm..... |
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KiloGraham private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Very disrespectful to a customer. I remember a time when people took pride in not only the work they did but they service they offered. Nowadays no one seems to really care. That guy who had STACKS of JSC work is probably going to think twice about buying from him again. In one fell swoop he alienated someone who was apparently a very big fan. |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KiloGraham Yep, and our only form of protest is to stop buying his merchandise since he obviously doesn't listen to people who ordered stuff from him in good faith. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Agreed. This will be the last thing I buy from him for the forseeable future. Telling some one to cancel their order should be seen as a last resort, not a suggestion in an attempt to end a conversation with a dissatisfied customer. He may as well have come out and said "don't like it? Cancel your order and stop bothering me". |
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rtdcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| the ultimate problem with all these variants is that at some point we will all probably decide against supporting the trend and lining greedy pockets but it only takes one amazing variant to drop and thats all forgotten. Im as guilty of it as the next man even though I made a conscious decision to avoid all these money grabs. | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Is this Campbell HIMSELF doing and saying these things...? | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I believe that JSC does handle his own Twitter account. He and a dissatisfied customer had a little back and forth (check the link someone posted above). Though we here may be paraphrasing, the under lying message is basically the same. Personally, if someone told me "feel free to cancel" I'd see it as a passive aggressive and probably wouldn't sit well with me. But that's just me... |
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| If it's Campbell doing it, it fits a pattern. Look, anyone who charges a "premium" to sign a book for "slabbing", and either doesn't charge, or charges less, for signing other books, is just greedy and selfish. They see a key book in 9.8 condition sell for "big money!!!" and they think they somehow deserve a "cut" of that money. It's naked greed, and it's built on a flawed understanding of the process from the start. If I get Campbell to sign a Black Panther #1, and it becomes a 9.8 yellow label, OF COURSE his signature adds value. But what if I want to get a Gen 13 #8 signed by him, and it's an 8.5, but just happened to be the very first comic I ever bought, and I want the signature witnessed...? Does Campbell's signature add a dime? No. Do I still have to pay the same fee to HIM AND the grading company? Yes. 95-99% of the value of these books is in their CONDITION. For the people who ARE going to sell them, and yes, there's some of us out here who aren't endless chasms of money, and can't afford to pay tens of thousands of dollars to assemble such a collection, that condition is paramount. These creators don't know this. They see $$$ for some rare variant in 9.8, and think their signature is worth the difference. And no one explains it to them, for fear of being "cut off." It's none of their damn business what someone wants to do with THEIR OWN PROPERTY, and shame on them for even ASKING. Shame on Marv Wolfman, and Len Wein, and Campbell, and Liefeld, and every other entitled creator who charges a graded "premium" for their signature. They can charge WHATEVER THEY WANT for their signature. No one is entitled to it, except their bank, the DMV, and the phone company. They can charge whatever they want, truly. They want to charge $10,000 for their signature, and the market supports it, more power to 'em! (I would argue that supporting a creators work by buying their merchandise is more than enough support, but I won't quibble.) But don't charge a communistic "slab premium" for property that doesn't belong to you, which you didn't buy, which you didn't take care of, and is none of your damn business what happens to it afterwards. Sign it, don't sign it, charge for your sig, don't charge...just don't tack on an extra "graded comic" fee. You create unnecessary conflict and tension with your fans, and you treat them like second class citizens, like the "only" person who would get a book slabbed is someone who only wants the money. You're not a "real fan" if you're getting books slabbed, OBVIOUSLY. And yes, Campbell said essentially that, to my face, in November. It was quite stunning. And facilitators have desperately fallen down on the job by not explaining these things to creators. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I don't care about the creator charging a premium. That's capitalism at work and he's charging what the market supports. What he did was basically false advertising. His website said "limited to 1200". Now it's 1400. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics No, that's not at all "capitalism at work." It's communism at work. If it were capitalism, he would charge the same price for his signature, regardless of to whom and why. Communism is FIXED pricing, and, since he knows he has a somewhat captive audience in those who want to slab, he gets away with it, because no one dares to challenge him. That's precisely what communism, not capitalism, is. "I don't think it's fair that you make money off of my sig. I deserve a cut of what I think you might be making"...totally regardless of the reality of the situation, that's what goes on in these creators' heads. This situation with the print run is just another manifestation of the same underlying greed. |
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| Double post. | ||
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm not going to get into a political debate on a comic board. My point is, he's charging and people are paying it. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics That's fine, but...you brought up the economic (NOT political) argument. If you don't want to get into a debate, you probably ought not start one, no? Quote: Originally Posted by OCC And my point is, it's greed and ought to be identified as such, and this latest flap is just another manifestation of that. |
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| @DocBrown Amen, Brother! | ||
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| What if the "premium" was a "discount"? IE the signor asks if it's for your personal collection, and if you say yes, you get a massive discount on the signature fee. I think that would be applauded; but logically the same exact thing as the opposite; just presented differently, no? Unless I'm mistaken, the "slab fee" is just the only way to know for sure if a book is getting flipped or not. There's no way to prove if its for someones personal collection, so they are doing what they can. @DocBrown; even if I didnt agree with all of it, that was an awesome rant lol |
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer It's no one's business what you do with your property. Let me say it again: it's no one's business what you do with your property. If I want to flip it, eat it, tear it up, burn it, list it for $10,000,000 on eBay...it's no one else's business. They have no right to ASK "is this for your personal collection?" in the first place. The whole "personal collection" argument is a moot one from the start. It's no one's business what you do with your property. Conversely, no one should use that argument for leverage. It's tacky, and should...should, now...have no bearing on any transaction. Can you imagine, buying a car at a dealership, and having them ask you what you plan on doing with it? Or a loaf of bread at the store? Or a comic book from a local comic shop? "Oh, you plan on getting that book signed and slabbed? Oh, well, that's different. We charge a premium for that. After all, you're going to make money, and we deserve a cut!" Think about it: a creator puts his blood, sweat, and tears into his work, which gets mass-produced and sold for a few dollars a copy. Why? Doesn't he deserve more? Couldn't he publish his own comics, and set them at whatever price he thinks his work is worth? Or does he trade his creative freedom for a measure of security at a "big company"...? The publisher makes money off of his work. That's not fair, is it? The printer makes money off of his work. That's not fair, is it? The distributor and retailer make money off of his work. That's not fair, is it? Of course it is. So why are they so concerned that someone might make money off of their signature? And do you see the flaw? All one needs to do is lie to a creator, and they get the so-called "discount" rate. How does that do anything but create ill-will between creators and fans? "Oh, yes, this is TOTALLY for my PERSONAL collection..wink, wink, nudge, nudge...I would NEVER sell it." That's bad business, all the way around. Either sign it, or don't sign it, charge for it or don't charge for it. Don't create "tiers" of charges, based on what someone MIGHT do with their personal property. You're inviting trouble doing that. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ultimately, it's telling people "the only reason you get comics slabbed is to make money." Is that true....? It's not true for me, as far as signed books go. How about the rest of you...? |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Not true for me. |
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