What do you think of the new CGC holder?234
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Odins_Raven private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by zosocane HAHAHAHA!!!!  |
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Mio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like the back of the CGC label more than the front. But I have not seen it in person yet. I am sending five books there soon enough, so will judge on that basis. I also think, as noted above, and as often happens when there is relative monolopy on something, that CGC became a bit entitled to collectors's business and stopped innovating and showed signs of lazy client care. CBCS is forcing them to play catch-up. And since can trust both of CBCS and CGC for grading and resto checks, the extras (holders, client care, shipping flexibility etc.) will determine where submissions go. Competition is good for the hobby! |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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Oldbsturgeon private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ah that. yeah I don't seem too concerned about that. I have this book that I bought a frame for and I got this UV static cling sticker like thing that goes over the front and it does the same sort of thing | ||
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| One used to be able to slide a piece of paper between the outer shell and the inner well and get rid of the prism spots, but the new slab is sealed all the way around so that's a no go. What I find the most amusing is that after spending years working the convention circuit and listening to CGCers tell me everything that was wrong with the CBCS holder, the cgc turns right around and incorporates a lot of the same features into their "new" holder. They should should have "borrowed" their inner well design as well. It would have gotten them a lot more mileage than trying to trademark a damn star. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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IncentiveComic private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm very happy with my CBCS holder. Perfect for me. | ||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I can't find fault with the CBCS holders, grading policy or maturity of attitude. Sure, there's always room for improvements, but for the new kid on the block Steve and his team have brought forward several improvements many collectors have been clamoring for (among them, no more PLODs & GLODs, free grading notes and a signature verification service). Then of course there's the clarity of CBCS holders. It's obvious to me that CGC thought their new holders were a smart strategic maneuver on the competitive chessboard. Until marketing their new design, they kept it very close to the vest, and that's apparently what has gotten them in a world of hurt. More on that later. Strategically, these holders were intended as work savers for faster turn arounds (which also translates to fewer employees needed in the process). The increased weight and thickness makes the new holder more substantive, but also increases shipping costs and reduces the number of slabs that can be shipped in each box. The new labels provide larger, darker grade emphasis which makes them easier to read across a room, but also draws the eye away from the book within. The additional pressure provided by sealing the book into the case under Mylar was designed for sturdiness and protection, but the moire pattern Newton effects make the book appear water damaged and the added pressure to spines is still an unknown. The new holders clarity was supposedly a BIG plus in theory, except that it displays these rainbow patterns on spines and edges with greater acuity. I suspect that righting this ship is going to take valuable resources away from CGC's budget. That means time, money, re-engineered product and resestablishing good will from those collectors who were disappointed early adopters. I do not envy them. In hind sight, it would be easy for those of us on the outside to say this could've been avoided or averted through test trials on various kinds of comics to determine the real world impact on the collecting community. If this was attempted, I'm not aware of it. The advantage of keeping things proprietory is that you can introduce new products that snag the hearts and minds of existing customers while undermining the competition. The disadvantage with springing a new product on the market is that every scenario has to be anticipated in advance and if things go south, the word gets out fast. There's always risk to trying to sell something new to an audience that's generally satisfied with your existing product. This was a bold move. It may seem like faint praise, but I'll give CGC kudos for guts. Besides the incurred costs, the problem they have going forward is keeping loyal customers on board while correcting the problem to the majority's satisfaction. For those on the fence or the many who have determined CBCS holders equal to or superior to CGC's older holders, the availability of more options makes this a moot point. Once again, apologies for the length. I'm not known for brevity and this topic certainly deserves considerable thought. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| IMO: CGC's new holders = New Coke How'd that idea work out? |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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roarzola private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I do like that the top label is now inside. Some of my old ones look like they are starting to peel off. I got my first shipment back from CBCS and I am happy with them. I am also glad for the competition to be in play. The turn around times was horrible with CGC. Looks like they are now caught up but maybe because of cbcs growing in business. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo About the same from a product standpoint which means it is a failed change. It has not been viewed very favorably by the end user that evaluates the new product on-line. How much of a failed change can only be measure by how much market share they loose. If you mean from a marketing standpoint it would be well behind what Coca-Cola experienced. In any marketing course that covers the "new Coke" event you'll be taught that more people on earth were aware that Coke changed their formula than people were aware that man landed on the moon when both events happened. I don't think that many people were aware that a comic grading company changed their holder. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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zosocane private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The back of the new CGC label seems like something is missing. Too barren. And I will say it again: the font size of the numerical grade of the front of the new CGC label is just way too big. It seems out of place. These are just my aesthetic concerns, without addressing the practical concerns brought by the new label, such as the lack of an inner well and the Newtonian ring effect. |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's really sad when you can gauge how much coffee you've consumed during the day by the length of your posts. In my case, yesterday must've been a doozy! (lol) Obviously this is a passionate topic. I don't think anyone wishes ill for CGC, but uncertainty over the new holder is putting a lot of folks on edge. I feel for collectors caught in the middle. On the upside, CBCS provides a real alternative and I'm sure everyone here can get behind that. Timing-wise, this forum coming online could not be more opportune. (thumbs up) |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
That's for sure CatmanAmerica.  I remember when CBCS first launched and they had a plastics issue that was definitely a set back. Unfortunately, things happen with new product launches that are sometimes unexpected. With that said, CGC should have done more testing and also market research with not only dealers but collectors. I get why the big bold grade number is there now. It's easier for online shopping at auctions house or dealer sites as well as when you are selling at a convention. The giant black grade pops and is the biggest thing on the case. That's basically catering to only dealers and auction houses...which is really why they did it. The collector wasn't really considered in the label design at all. If it was, notes would be placed on the back where it is empty now and also, the label wouldnt have needed an "upgrade" The inner well is what needed a significant improvement (especially for SCS) as well as the clarity of the plastic. It seems the clarity of plastic has been addressed but now the oil newton ring effect thing is an issue. I doubt CGC will get it completely newton ring free because of the way their inside mylar is deigned. Having said that, I am even more inclined to now get my books graded by CBCS. I have a few signed moderns that need VSP but I also have a few silver age keys that needed reholdering and now I'm thinking CBCS is a better choice to get it done.... hmmmm |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Catering to dealers is one of the major reasons I switched all my grading to CBCS. I was trying to get a witness for a sig at SDCC, crowded I know, and ended up getting a patronizing speech about how hesitant they are about aparing the witness since that person could take like 15 other orders at the CGC booth in that time. Shortly afterwards the same guy makes a big deal about a dealer arriving at their table with like 200 books to submit. Now don't get me wrong, I totally understand the need to be efficient but I couldn't help but feel snubbed and undervalued as a customer. Sure, I'm a low volume sumbitter so they didn't notice my switch but for me, the service at CBCS has been a HUGE step up. |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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roarzola private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I wonder how collectors who are trying to get a complete set feel. Someone who has half of his set the old way and now is not very happy with the new frame. I am sure, even if they know CBCS is a great alternative, they would prefer to have their entire run on a particular title graded by one company. | ||
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Larryw7 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica Just coffee?  |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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Evangelon private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wait a minute! Excellent point Marc_1 Why doesn't CBCS put the grading notes on the back side of the label? | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Larryw7 You just know I'll have to try this...   |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Looks yummy | ||
| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC is getting a little touchy about folks discussing issues with their new holder. This isn't a good sign; I suspect the 150 page thread of comments on the new holder may be locked soon. The discussion of rings has expanded to a new, more troubling matter, ...waves. This doesn't appear to be a Newton ring related anomaly. It presents as physical damage to the edges of some books and may be a sealing issue. Have no idea if the examples posted are rare exceptions or more common, but any is too many. |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There were wavy books in the old holders. Once cracked out, the book would lay flat again. However, I'm not sure what one would look like after it had been in the slab for several years. | ||
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blazingbob private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Dave, I'm not really sure where you feel that CGC is getting touchy with discussions about their holder. I met with CGC on Thursday and that is not the case at all. They are aware of the issue, I told them that they definitely should be a little more direct with what they are doing to the address the issue. I also don't think CGC would lock the thread based on the comments being posted about the new holder. | ||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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Namrepus28 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by roarzola To answer your question directly; Not pleased. I'll have to get 3/4 of a run I was working on re-holdered by CGC if I want them to match when I've collected them all. It's actually the first thing I thought of when they announced their new holder. "If I ever want to display this run, I'd want them all to match and now they've changed the holder." It's not the end of the world, but it's an added expense and therefore an added annoyance. |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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D84 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson That's the book I just sold. I'm pretty sure it only hitting about $500.00 has to do with the presentation of the new slabs. I had an order that was about to be sent to CGC when I got these, and, seeing what it did to the auction price, I'm not sending any more to them. CBCS will probably be getting my business from now on. |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Click for larger image:    |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by blazingbob You're probably right, Bob, but posts disappearing for no apparent reason in a thread critical of a new product leaves the impression of touchiness. My "got rings?" comment under Tom Brady's pic must've crossed some line (ruled off sides?) even though it was intended as humor. Someone posted afterwards that CGC may be looking for an excuse to shut the thread down. I'm not suggesting that, but some folks are getting antsy. I'm sure that CGC is fully aware of the issue and the distress over it, how could they not be? Kudos to you for encouraging them to be more direct in addressing the problems. Some steps CGC has taken ...such as Matt posting about free replacement holders for those complaining about Newton ring issues... are definitely positive. |
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Namrepus28 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson Brutal. That was probably the biggest issue with CGC and it looks like they haven't fixed a thing in that regard. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wrinkles/Waviness  |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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Despain private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson Thanks for sharing those pictures. I didn't understand the meaning of Newtonian Effect, but I do now. The CGC case before the new one was unveiled seems to be better overall. That said, I have noticed that the CBCS case seems to be a bit more flimsy than the second generation CGC case. When I handle the CBCS case it makes a plastic creaking noise. Don't get me wrong, I like the look of the case, it just seems not to be quite as sturdy though. |
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blazingbob private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So the Batman #234 in 9.4 selling for $500 had more to do with the Newton rings then possibly the page quality of cream/offwhite? The last 2 copies before had offwhite/white and offwhite pages. But hey the good thing is I can now blame low Ebay sales to Newton rings. Dave, As far as posts disappearing in the New CGC thread did you pm the moderator or are you just speculating on why it was deleted? Folks are getting antsy? Again, why? People get antsy when they think the company or someone causing a problem doesn't respond. They are afraid to ask, don't confront or when they get a response don't get answers that give them immediate "comfort". This is what the Harshen/Matt Nelson posts did and is what I told the person I met with. The issue requires direct, with timelines, blunt admissions and very clear responses as to what they are looking at doing. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Despain I've noticed some of them making a creaking noise. I'm not sure why they do that. I do know that one of my CBCS books fell out of my backpack and hit the concrete in San Diego two years ago. I was really impressed that the case didn't crack. |
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