What do you think of the new CGC holder?234
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matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton Basically what they are saying is that all these MINOR issues are easily fixable as it's an in house problem. Err err. Many have sent comics in unpressed and pressed by others companies and had the same issues. Classic CGC. Did anyone say disingenuous lol Anyone else hoping it happens as much as it has so CGC yet again can be called out. I'm getting fed up of this nonsense now |
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Happylemon private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Are they still trying to blag there customers? | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton The big question; Will they do an in house verification of this, or will they let their customers inform them of the results? |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton What about the unpressed books that developed waves? Who can they throw under the bus with CCS in order to discount those? |
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Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user | |
Now that Hashan has said that they have addressed the "minor" problems and everything is all good, I guess I better start submitting again  |
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Resurrection private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatsonCCS didnt press my books, I call BS |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
| More b.s. from Matt "The Arseman" Nelson. The part in bold is interesting - can CGC detect pressing? "After asking matt Several question I received this reply. It seems as though they have figured out the issue of the waviness(not just a ccs issue.) I for one am glad of that. Hi Michael, some of the CCS books had a slight wave across the top after pressing. This was exacerbated when put into the holders, so we pulled all CCS orders that contained any books that exhibited the wave and repressed them flat. A change was made to the press process to make sure the wave is completely gone before it goes to CGC for grading and encapsulation. This was the majority of wave issues we were seeing. There were also non-CCS books we saw the wave on, which was either caused by other people's pressing (which are now being fully documented by the graders in their notes), or the positioning of the book in the holder. Assembling this new holder is more of an art than before, involving thickness and centering among other things. All of these factors we've identified, and we're watching very closely what is being done here. QC is working overtime to make sure that the holders going out look great. I'm sorry you have to deal with this on your end. We're just under 8 weeks in to the new holder, and there's bound to be some kinks to work out. The boards and the competition have made it difficult during this transition, but I think this holder is a huge improvement over the last one, and it's just going to take time for collectors to get used to it. Let me know if you need anything else. Matt" |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would love to see a JoeyPost vs Arseman "debate" about pressing. Go Joe! | ||
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matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton I give up. Utter madness. Thanks for posting up |
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D84 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, CGC can detect pressing and just ignored it in the past? | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton So, will pressing from anyone other than CCS get a PLOD? And when Matt says that we need to get used to the superiority of the new slab, does he mean that we need to get used to a lack of eye appeal? It really seems like Samson gets them lifted. |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by D84 AFAIK, CGC's position for the past 16 years has been that since they can't detect pressing 100%, they would only mention it if it was a really bad press job (like waffle books). I've only ever seen it on the label in tandem with a aqueous cleaning on the old old labels. You have to ignore the fact that pressing was always restoration before CGC showed up, ignore the fact that pressing (CPR) is an important aspect of their revenue stream, ignore the fact that CGC duped the hobby into "accepting" pressing, and ignore the fact that they give Purple labels to other techniques that they can't detect 100%. I would love to hear more about CGC and Arseman being able to detect other people's pressings. You down with OPP? Yeah you know me. |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley CGC would be hypocrites of the highest order if they did this. |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton Oops, I forgot, Matt doesn't even work for his own pressing company anymore, he's CGC's Primary Grader now. |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton That's one conflict of interest resolved! |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| On a serious note, was a new,lead presser named? | ||
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Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton So the consumer and CBCS are the problems? |
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Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC management is just... There are no words... |
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D84 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Marc_1 Inept? Condescending? |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton It wasn't just CGC that was convincing the community that pressing was not restoration it was quite a few people in the community as well. Heck, I think I argued with some of the members here about it. I even got lumped into the anti-pressing camp though I never was. I'm not even in an anti-restoration camp. My views on restoration are different than most collectors and grading companies. What comments like Matt and this whole fiasco by CGC proves to me is that I have been right for years. CGC's QA/QC shortcomings always had them balanced on the thin edge of the razor. A good Quality Assurance system should not result in what has happened to CGC in the last number of weeks. That's not to say bad things won't happen within QA systems but not to this level. This is PGX level incompetence. This should also serve as a warning to CBCS to ALWAYS be on their toes an proactively be looking at not only how drum up more business or service offerings but to strengthen what they already have by standardizing the system and having the checks and balances in the system that allows mistakes to be traceable and fixable. Gaining business isn't just about having the right services offered but how safe, reliable, and secure the process is. It is not cheap to become certified under QA systems like ISO but they offer a huge assurance to customers and company employees. While it is much harder to do such a system in the comic community that should not stop a CBCS, CGC, or whoever from trying. |
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The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton That's akin to Coca-cola telling their devoted fans/customers that New Coke is a better product than old Coke and their entire world fan base will just have to get used to it. I suppose the massive drop off in submissions by non CGC slaves will show them the error of their ways. |
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Thorrodin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, I just completed the submission form for my first batch of 22 books to go to CBCS. I have been with CGC a long time, but no way I want that New Case even if Newton Rings were the only possible issue. I have submitted a mix of Silver and Bronze. I am looking forward to see how CBCS grades. Some books I submitted to CBCS had previously been graded by CGC where I had saw obvious grading inconsistencies i.e. they were graded lower by CGC with the exact same grader notes as other books I have that CGC graded higher. The appearance is just as good as the higher graded books too. I have cracked them out and sending them in raw, so either CBCS will confirm the original CGC grade (and that CGC just takes crappy notes which is a given) or it will verify my suspicion that CGC has been inconsistent in grading, I cant wait to find out. Probably a mix of both. I must say though the CBCS submission form saved tons of time with input over the CGC one - I think the CGC one is the same one they have used for fifteen years lol. And I always thought it was tacky they made me print their own shipping and receiving forms for them. | ||
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Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In case anyone missed it, or cares at this point, this is from a conversation a CGC board member had with Matt Nelson about the new holders. "I called Matt last week to discuss the new case. Instead of speculating and complaining, I tried to get actual information. Here are some points: 1) When the new case was designed and tested, the ability to weld them shut was not there as that has to be manufactured based off of final specs. Therefore, the problems we're seeing were not able to be identified a priori. 2) Redesigning a case requires new molds and is somewhere on the order of 18 months before it's ready to go. It is not practical to expect that CGC just shut things down for a year and a half. No business could absorb that. To continue to suggest this is not reasonable. 3) CGC's intent at this time is to continue with the new case and modify it so that these problems are minimized or eliminated. 4) All this being said, a new redesign has not been ruled out, but for practical reasons that is not the plan at this point. If things don't work out with the current iteration, that is something that may be considered. 5) We discussed the issues and Matt is genuinely concerned with the warping and wrinkling. That is something that they think they have fixed, but we'll see going forward. 6) Newton rings don't bother me so I didn't address those much. But we did discuss some strategies for addressing that IF a new case design were needed. 7) Matt also discussed how the boards are affecting things at CGC, similar to what was quoted in an email earlier. However, this needs to be taken in context. It's not that they're blaming the boards for creating a ruckus. Rather, there is a LOT of misinformation and rabble rousing that comes as a result of uninformed discussion. It's hard to address real issues when there are people throwing all sorts of shade and misdirection and you spend half your time clarifying misinformation. This is MY interpretation of what he had to say and not his words, so don't take that for Matt's statement. But that's how I perceived what he had to say." |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Kinzebac DougC had a great response to this: "While I understand the thought behind your interpretation, I have to disagree with its premise. Misinformation and "misdirection" comes as a result of the very lack of communication CGC has chosen as their first defense in this situation. Earlier in the thread people noted that CGC representatives outright stated they had no need to comment about this thread and when there was finally a comment it was vague and very hand wavy. When a situation arises and a company chooses to ignore it they no longer have the ability to shape the narrative of discussion. It makes matters worse when the company blames their own customers for "making a big deal" out of it. They can not complain about the comments in the thread or any misinformation if they are not willing to set the record straight. By being silent they give credit to any wildly fanciful statement made against them which soon becomes passed around as truth. At this point because they chose to stay silent and ignore the issue for as long as they have who is going to believe them when they announce they have fixed the problem? CGC is lucky CBCS has only taken a light potshot at them with their statement and discount. In other industries a competing company would by now have gone for the throat with a full add press to grab market share pointing to this very thread with examples." |
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D84 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think CBCS offering a discount to people who got hosed by the new case is a "pot shot." They are offering assistance to people who feel mislead by the new CGC case. For the record, I used to love CGC. For the longest time, they were the only slab I'd buy, but they way they have handled this whole thing has made me rethink my brand loyalty. |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton People are misreading what CGC said about the pressing. They didn't "detect" the pressing. They checked their records and found that CCS had pressed the books. They didn't say anything about any other pressing service. Just CCS. They don't have to detect CCS pressing. They can no doubt just look in their computer and see if the book came over from CCS. I find CGC's overall explanation lacking. Sounds like blame shifting, sounds like a lot of denial (problem only affected a small number of books) But this is not "proof" that they can or cannot detect pressing. They checked their records. |
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Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan Well, I am still confused about this: "There were also non-CCS books we saw the wave on, which was either caused by other people's pressing (which are now being fully documented by the graders in their notes)..." What does this mean Tony? |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "Dropped off by CFP Comics." or "Mailed in from Josh Avery Pressing." perhaps? How else would the graders know unless it was a poor press job? | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There were also pictures of modern books for sale on the cgc boards that were graded on site at Philly in 9.9 holders where you can see what appears to be waves in the pictures. I would imagine those weren't pressed. If they were, it would have to have been on site pressing. | ||
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Mio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson It is a bit unnerving that, shortly after Matt left CCS Paper, CGC attributed some of the waviness to the pressing process by CCS Paper. Did they ever confirm who was running things there, now? I would much rather pass things through Joey, regardless. I also recently purchased a CGC membership thinking to submit a few books through them and then sell, but now I do regret not holding off until the new holder is sorted out (or replaced, or... whatever). My keeper books still go through CBCS. |
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