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What do you think of the new CGC holder?234

Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola
I was looking to purchase a Rom #1 off ebay last night and taking a close look at some of the ones in the new case, I could see very small errors. One of them had, flapping, I think it is called, when all the pages are seen on the side edge. Luckily I found one in an older case and hopefully it will be in my hands soon.


Fanning. I haven't heard of the new holders causing this.

I think he means "fanning."
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Collector Maverick private msg quote post Address this user
Not so sure id be happy if i got this slab. Still a beautiful book but it looks shifted to me with some fanning going on.

ASM 129
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Collector crossedfan private msg quote post Address this user
How does the new buyer feel?
Post 303 IP   flag post
Collector D84 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
Not so sure id be happy if i got this slab. Still a beautiful book but it looks shifted to me with some fanning going on.

ASM 129


Wow! I'd be angry if I got that back from CGC.
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Collector Maverick private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by D84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
Not so sure id be happy if i got this slab. Still a beautiful book but it looks shifted to me with some fanning going on.

ASM 129


Wow! I'd be angry if I got that back from CGC.


I suppose its impossible to say whats really going on without pre encapsulation photos. Definitely crooked though.
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Collector Resurrection private msg quote post Address this user
My books came back looking like crap. I had some GA, but they are now going to CBCS.
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Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
The only way I'll be buying "new holder" CGC slabs is when I get a good deal for a Signature Series (SS).

I wonder if "new holder" CGC slab owners will declare these when they sell, or hide the defects until you get them.
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Collector Maverick private msg quote post Address this user
@JazzyJeffie Im not sure you could hide a new CGC book if you wanted to.


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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsilverjanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
I saw posts of recent shipments with new holders. 3 or 4 books were crooked in the case.

Saw another post showing before images (CGC's scan) and after images (customer's pic after delivery). Looks like the book shifted in the case.



Can you provide links/pics?


Sorry

LINK to Before & After shifting.

Absolutely no question this book shifted between the point CGC scanned it and DF photographed it.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Here's the crooked books. Some look crooked but if you look at the bottom edge, they're parallel with the case, so those ones are parallelogram miscuts. But there are definitely crooked books- I think the Silver Surfer 4 was the worst.




Crooked.
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I'll probably wake up constipated. Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by D84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
Not so sure id be happy if i got this slab. Still a beautiful book but it looks shifted to me with some fanning going on.

ASM 129


Wow! I'd be angry if I got that back from CGC.


I suppost its impossible to say whats really going on without pre encapsulation photos. Definitely crooked though.


The book is definitely crooked in the shell and I would be concerned about the case taking a bump and the book settling with pressure on the upper right corner. It appears it's already up against the inner well wall.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
I kinda scratch my head at all the, "The Newton Rings I can live with..." comments.


Post 312 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
@JazzyJeffie Im not sure you could hide a new CGC book if you wanted to.




My eyes...they burn
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Collector VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user
Gotta love the posters on that CGC thread. Writing such things as "nice book" "wow, that's a beauty" " I really want to upgrade when I see this"

All of course while completely ignoring the @#$%ed up encapsulation. As well as the fact that the upper right side corner doesn't have long to live

This is akin to Titanic survivors aboard the life boats noticing how lovely the lighting is on the ship...as she sinks
Post 314 IP   flag post
Collector Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user
So we all know about the current CGC case and it's ongoing problems, but what I really want to know is that why are people, who have knowledge of the problems, continuing to go forward with their submissions?
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinzebac
So we all know about the current CGC case and it's ongoing problems, but what I really want to know is that why are people, who have knowledge of the problems, continuing to go forward with their submissions?


It's no different than people continuing to use PGX. It's their brand and they are faithful to a fault.
Post 316 IP   flag post
Collector Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user
@Oxbladder i can understand novice collectors doing this, but seasoned vets?
Post 317 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Well, I can't claim to understand why people would. Only offering the observation that they will no matter what the turmoil is. People have done it with PGX so it is not at all surprising that people would do it for CGC.
Post 318 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinzebac
So we all know about the current CGC case and it's ongoing problems, but what I really want to know is that why are people, who have knowledge of the problems, continuing to go forward with their submissions?


Are the knowledgeable people you're referring to sending first time subs, or reholders? If the former, then yeah it's a curiosity.
If the latter, then yeah it's curiosity.

Joking aside, I can see dealers rolling the dice, but if the books are for personal collections, I wouldn't understand why one wouldn't wait.

It seems one of the main reasons people say they stick with CGC is they feel their grades are more accurate. Most of the time this is a one grade off opinion, either up or down. This would suggest these people already have a grade in mind when they submit. So if they're so sure of the grade why pay someone to make the book less presentable? How can someone think these Crooked, Off-centered, Wavy, Splotchy (COWS ) books look better than a nice crispy Mylite2/Fullback. It's about the book, not the label, right? Again, I'm talking about personal collections.

Why not let them fix the problems? I'm sure they will, but this whole silent treatment has to be causing a variety of speculation by their customers (mostly the ones who didn't frequent forums until all this happened). Something I sometimes say to a friend when joking around is, "May as well tell me, or I'll just make something up."

I can't imagine they've made the decision to leave things as is, hoping the majority of the COWS they ship out don't come back for reholders. That said, the fact that they continue to keep the line moving without publicly addressing the worst of the problems is really quite insulting to the whole community because they're increasing the number of ugly slabs we all have to wade through when purchasing.
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Collector Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinzebac
So we all know about the current CGC case and it's ongoing problems, but what I really want to know is that why are people, who have knowledge of the problems, continuing to go forward with their submissions?


Are the knowledgeable people you're referring to sending first time subs, or reholders? If the former, then yeah it's a curiosity.
If the latter, then yeah it's curiosity.

Joking aside, I can see dealers rolling the dice, but if the books are for personal collections, I wouldn't understand why one wouldn't wait.

It seems one of the main reasons people say they stick with CGC is they feel their grades are more accurate. Most of the time this is a one grade off opinion, either up or down. This would suggest these people already have a grade in mind when they submit. So if they're so sure of the grade why pay someone to make the book less presentable? How can someone think these Crooked, Off-centered, Wavy, Splotchy (COWS ) books look better than a nice crispy Mylite2/Fullback. It's about the book, not the label, right? Again, I'm talking about personal collections.

Why not let them fix the problems? I'm sure they will, but this whole silent treatment has to be causing a variety of speculation by their customers (mostly the ones who didn't frequent forums until all this happened). Something I sometimes say to a friend when joking around is, "May as well tell me, or I'll just make something up."

I can't imagine they've made the decision to leave things as is, hoping the majority of the COWS they ship out don't come back for reholders. That said, the fact that they continue to keep the line moving without publicly addressing the worst of the problems is really quite insulting to the whole community because they're increasing the number of ugly slabs we all have to wade through when purchasing.


I agree with what you are saying. I just find some of the behavior baffling over on the other boards, but I guess each to their own, right?
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Collector Kinzebac private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
Well, I can't claim to understand why people would. Only offering the observation that they will no matter what the turmoil is. People have done it with PGX so it is not at all surprising that people would do it for CGC.


So true.
Post 321 IP   flag post
Collector blazingbob private msg quote post Address this user
Since I am a CGC submitter and will continue to submit with them I am not sure why people would question this. I have been a charter member dealer since they started. When somebody asks why would I continue to submit the answer is loyalty. I have consistently sold their product since I began slabbing. The market required that dealers sell graded books. CGC books have sold pretty well since 2000. I am not sure why I should jump ship over to CBCS just because "We've got Steve Borock". Frankly CBCS has been asking me why I don't submit and the answer is "loose grading", "lousy Restored label".

While it is great that both companies assume they are "in the clear" once they holder the book the bottom line is that me or the person selling the book is taking the brunt of the criticism about the grading, the holder etc. I've stated to BOTH companies, don't make my job harder to sell your books.

Many of you may be disappointed with the CGC holder but I am very disappointed almost 90% of the time when I'm looking at CBCS books in holders.

If any of you wish to comment to me in person I'll be at Wizard Philly.
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah, this thread needs more of The Blazing One!
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingbob
Since I am a CGC submitter and will continue to submit with them I am not sure why people would question this. I have been a charter member dealer since they started.


Not saying your post was directed at me, but I did mention that "I can see (understand) dealers rolling the dice", and by that I meant hoping the recent problems give your submissions a pass.
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Collector VintageComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsilverjanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
I saw posts of recent shipments with new holders. 3 or 4 books were crooked in the case.

Saw another post showing before images (CGC's scan) and after images (customer's pic after delivery). Looks like the book shifted in the case.



Can you provide links/pics?


Sorry

LINK to Before & After shifting.

Absolutely no question this book shifted between the point CGC scanned it and DF photographed it.


Are you sure this is an example of a crooked book?

I thought the owner stated in the GA forum that the book was not crooked and that only the camera angle made it look so.
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I can understand loyalty. But when your current girlfriend lets you down. It is time to find a new girlfriend.

I could get raunchy here. But I am sure y'all get my point.

Having said all of that. I am a firm believer that, it is your money, your book, and your business. Do what you want with them.
Post 326 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
The whole grading convo is such a waste of time. I could start my own grading company and decide that most other's 6.0 is my 9.0. That is my perogative. Yes over street set a standard say and CGC came up with the number system so you can't stray too far from it as you just won't do well. But you see my point. The main thing is to stay consistent.

The way I honestly see it is this. CGC have gone through many phases of being tight to loose etc. When CBCS came along they went much tighter to try and show that they are the market leaders and are more professional. So this automatically would make CBCS to appear looser even if Steve was keeping to the previously CGC set up. All that happened is CGC graded tighter to try and undermine CBCS as graders (imo). Slowly but surely CGC have got a tad looser. But they are tighter than say 4 years ago. However with this new case I bet they go much looser again to tap into the amateur market more and to encourage people to use them. If that is infact happening than how ironic would that be....over grading to pull people in which is what they were trying to represent CBCS as doing so poeple wouldn't use them. Ouroboros comes to mind.

But the last bit is specualtion not fact. This isn't a slight at you either blazingbob just how I honestly see this all. Plus loyalty is fine and everyone is allowed to decide which company works best for them on grading
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Collector roarzola private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingbob
Since I am a CGC submitter and will continue to submit with them I am not sure why people would question this. I have been a charter member dealer since they started. When somebody asks why would I continue to submit the answer is loyalty. I have consistently sold their product since I began slabbing. The market required that dealers sell graded books. CGC books have sold pretty well since 2000. I am not sure why I should jump ship over to CBCS just because "We've got Steve Borock". Frankly CBCS has been asking me why I don't submit and the answer is "loose grading", "lousy Restored label".

While it is great that both companies assume they are "in the clear" once they holder the book the bottom line is that me or the person selling the book is taking the brunt of the criticism about the grading, the holder etc. I've stated to BOTH companies, don't make my job harder to sell your books.

Many of you may be disappointed with the CGC holder but I am very disappointed almost 90% of the time when I'm looking at CBCS books in holders.

If any of you wish to comment to me in person I'll be at Wizard Philly.


Not really sure what your reasons are for making the decisions to use CGC over CBCS. It really is a matter of "your" reasons and "your" choice, and I would never fault you for that. You are free to choose the company that is right for you and your needs. If CGC books sell higher then CBCS and you are in this for profit, then it is only obvious, common sense to make the decisions that you are making, and those are good business decisions.

Now, if you are talking about loyalty, that depends on what earns your loyalty. If they consistently meet the criteria for your loyalty, then they deserve it because it goes both ways. They support your needs so you give them what they need, your business.

I think what people are questioning, both yourself and other CGC loyal users, is how long can their loyalty last. I would guess, from your comments, once the CGC label no longer sells books higher or equal to CBCS. What happens if the new CGC holder takes a dive in the resale market? When nobody is buying your books because they are in the new holder? Will you continue to give CGC your loyalty and your business until you have to either sacrifice one or the other?

I have used both and for reasons other then profit, have gone back and forth. I went to CBCS not for Steve (who I didn't know at the time, sounds like a nice guy ) because of the wait time (estimate 65 business days, c'mon) and CBCS was doing it quicker. I still wanted to send certain books to CGC because I held the title in Best in Series for that book and I wanted to keep my Registry strong. Now I don't want to send any of my books to them with the risk of coming back look horrible. In other words, my needs moved from company to company because they could no longer meet them. I don't have a ton of money to send a bunch of books so my miserable 5 a month is not going to kill either company.

So please don't take it as an attack on you for choosing CGCS. I hope everyone here can understand your decision and respect why. Just please do not judge us on why we choose to use CBCS over CGC. I hope for the best for CGC ( competition is good ) and would like to have them fix their issue so I may continue my Registry.
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Collector roarzola private msg quote post Address this user
On a "loose", "tight' grading subject.

What does that actually mean? I saw an episode of Comic Book Men where they had a CGC rep doing an on site grading. From what I understood of the process, every time they find something, they take it down a point from 10. Now I know this isn't exactly true because of my notes from books I got back. Some had less things marked but got a lower grade. Mind you, as a casual collector, anything over 9.0 on a modern to me is great. I can get great deals from a 9.4 compared to a 9.8 and sitting on a shelf, they both look great.

Once in a comic store, a guy came in with a huge stack of EC books. They looked cool but I could tell they were in rough shape. When offered a low price for them, the guy said they should be more because they were old. The store owner said "Even if they are old, because of their condition, it would take me forever t sell them. Nobody wants a ripped up book. I could sell a 1,000 Near Mint book faster then it would take to sell these". So I get, for resale why there is a big deal from a 9.8 to a 9.6 for dealers so wouldn't you want to have your book graded by someone who does it "looser"? Just asking, not accusing anyone of doing either.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that CGC does grade lighter on older books because of their rarity and how old they are. Does CBCS do the same thing?
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Collector PovRow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingbob
I am not sure why I should jump ship over to CBCS just because "We've got Steve Borock".


Seriously, Bob? You're saying CBCS is claiming that "just because" they have Borock people should use them? That's it. No other reason. Nothing to do with materials. Or turn around times. Or cost. Just that "We've got Steve Borock".
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