Is that hysterical 'CVA' ruse still around?2262

Originally Posted by VillageIdiot
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Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by VillageIdiot

Why do you think it was a "ruse"...?

I don't think it WAS a ruse. It IS a ruse, fact!

Originally Posted by VillageIdiot
ruse
ro͞oz,ro͞os/Submit
noun
an action intended to deceive someone; a trick.

Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by VillageIdiot
ruse
ro͞oz,ro͞os/Submit
noun
an action intended to deceive someone; a trick.

And why do you think it is a deception or a trick...?

Originally Posted by ZosoRocks
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Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by VillageIdiot
ruse
ro͞oz,ro͞os/Submit
noun
an action intended to deceive someone; a trick.

And why do you think it is a deception or a trick...?

I don't think there is any "trick" to this....these guys are aptly trying to gain a foothold into the comic industry.

I just don't think that they are the ones to determine what is "exceptional" and what is not.

I pay a grading company to determine this for me.

IMO - a 9.8 graded book is a 9.8 graded book.....with one exception - is it 9.8 in the eyes of whom is buying it?

You made a good point....some 9.8s are better looking than other 9.8s, and some folks will pay for the CVA sticker that tells them so. I won't.

It is a waste of my time, and in some aspect, it is a "ruse" to gain money for your opinion.

I like the alternate - a CBCS 'checkmark". IMO - it serves the same purpose.

In fact, if I sell a book with a check mark, I will incorporate that this is the same as the CVA sticker.

Why couldn't I? Both are assigned to the book, because the book is "better in appearance than what the actual grade states". Am I wrong to think like this?

Originally Posted by DarthLego
A 9.8 with a checkmark is still a 9.8 and always will be a 9.8. The checkmark means that the particular flaws preventing it from being a 9.9 are not immediately evident by just examining the book slabbed. Therefore, the slabbed book displays and presents better than a typical 9.8. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer But, CVA isn't even doing that. They are just looking at the slab and slapping a sticker on it that is basically just saying "yep, that looks good!"

Originally Posted by DL
If CVA was providing an intragrade elvauation and slapping say 9.7 stickers onto 9.6 slabs, then I could see it as being an actual service. Still wouldn't use that service, or agree to it's usefulness, but at least they'd actually be doing something productive.

Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer But, CVA isn't even doing that. They are just looking at the slab and slapping a sticker on it that is basically just saying "yep, that looks good!"

That's not true. They aren't "verifying" that the book is "graded correctly."

If that's your understanding, then yes, I can see why one would think it was a "ruse."

However...that's not what they do. From CVA's website:

"CVA's proprietary, tamper-evident holographic sticker provides assurance that the comic book you own has met our strict standards for outstanding eye appeal and superior structure within the numerical grade assigned by CGC.

(...and CBCS.)

CVA's distinctive sticker allows collectors, dealers and investors, with any level of experience, to easily identify these premium-quality examples in any grade. A CVA endorsement adds value for anyone interested in the CGC graded comic book market, buyers and sellers alike."

(emphasis added.)

They aren't verifying that the grade is "accurate."

They're identifying examples that have superior eye appeal and structure within the range of a specific grade...copies that look and present better than the "typical" example for that grade.

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Originally Posted by DL
If CVA was providing an intragrade elvauation and slapping say 9.7 stickers onto 9.6 slabs, then I could see it as being an actual service. Still wouldn't use that service, or agree to it's usefulness, but at least they'd actually be doing something productive.

People made these same arguments (and still do) in coins for a decade or more. The reality is, however, that the market demanded...and the market got...not only all the "intragrades" (like MS61, 62, 64, 66, 68, etc) but designations, both within the grading companies, and by outside services, like CAC, and the market has rewarded those services by paying more for those coins. Not substantially more. Not multiples. But more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1888-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-MS65-NGC-CAC-/371878072298?hash=item5695a90fea:g:JXMAAOSw2gxYs5RY

Here's an 1881-CC PCGS MS65+ with green CAC, that sold for $1,027:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-CC-Morgan-Dollar-MS-65-Plus-PCGS-CAC-/122309615391?hash=item1c7a389f1f:g:5ukAAOSw241YeDAa

...which was nearly 50% more than this one, graded PCGS MS65:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-CC-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-MS-65-PCGS-306-/332127667313?hash=item4d545a0471:g:btkAAOSwTuJYpHQ2

That's a pretty hefty premium. Same grade...MS65. But that "+" and CAC sticker made a not-insubstantial difference.

Here's another "plain" PCGS MS65 1881-cc that sold for $717:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-CC-PURE-GEM-MORGAN-PCGS-MS-65-NICE-QUALITY-A-NICE-FULL-STRIKE-BRITE-/182449254485?hash=item2a7ad2b055:g:i6QAAOSwB-1Ym~Ff

And another that sold for $787:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DAY-AUCTION-BETTER-DATE-PCGS-MS65-1881-CC-CARSON-CITY-MORGAN-DOLLAR-PQ-/232232823455?hash=item361227aa9f:g:WhsAAOSwTglYml36

That little "+" and the CAC sticker combined made a significant difference in price...same grade, MS65.

Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer But, CVA isn't even doing that. They are just looking at the slab and slapping a sticker on it that is basically just saying "yep, that looks good!"

That's not true. They aren't "verifying" that the book is "graded correctly."

If that's your understanding, then yes, I can see why one would think it was a "ruse."
...

They aren't verifying that the grade is "accurate."

Originally Posted by DarthLego
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Originally Posted by DocBrown
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@shrewbeer But, CVA isn't even doing that. They are just looking at the slab and slapping a sticker on it that is basically just saying "yep, that looks good!"

That's not true. They aren't "verifying" that the book is "graded correctly."

If that's your understanding, then yes, I can see why one would think it was a "ruse."
...

They aren't verifying that the grade is "accurate."

None of those quotations appeared anywhere in my statement. So I do not understand why you quoted me and responded toward me.

Originally Posted by DarthLego
They are just looking at the slab and slapping a sticker on it that is basically just saying "yep, that looks good!"