Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »
CBCS Comics
Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »
Comics Modern AgeQuestions

DKIII Master Race #7 1:500 Jim Lee Variant2218

Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
I can prove that entire statement false with you doing one action.

I have a masters in Macro Economics, if you believe your statement to be true, there is currently a 9.6 up for $2500 and by the pics it had a small crease that can be pressed out.

If you truly believe everything you typed to be true, then buy the comic and have the crease removed and put it up on eBay at no reserve.

If I truly believe something I will put my money where my mouth is every time.


I'm not sure how a single example proves my entire statement false, but let's go with it for the sake of the argument:

For my entire statement to be false, you need to prove it doesn't work 100% of the time. I only need to demonstrate that it works once, and my statement is validated.

But let's consider this specific example: that's not how it works (although this 9.6 for $2500 looks like a good deal at the moment.)

First, you have to be able to inspect the book in person. You can't make decisions based on scans, and it is incredibly rude and tacky to buy a book on eBay, inspect it, then return it just because you decide it's not worth the risk.

Second, I only see a single CBCS 9.6 on eBay, and it's priced at $3,000, not $2,500...and that color break at the top of the spine alone is enough to keep this book out of 9.8. Is that the one you're referring to? If not, please direct me to the copy you're referring to.

Last, in case I didn't make myself clear before, this is a risk. There's no guarantee. However...if you know what you're doing, you can do quite well at it, especially in the nosebleed grades. But it's still a risk. You can spend a lot of money chasing down a dead end. I not only believe everything I typed to be true (or why would I post it?), I've done it. Many times. And so have dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands of other people.


I can do it with anything.


Again...for what you're saying to be true, it has to be true for everything, not just "anything." I only need to prove it works once, and what I've said is validated.


Here's an example:




As a universal 9.4, that book was worth maybe $30-$35.

As a 9.8 (signed by Stan, no less), it's probably a $300+ book.

That's just one example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC

If you believe what you say, then there is zero risk. A no reserve auction will give you the true value of the book.


No, it will give you the value of the book at that time, with those people who happened to be around to bid.

And with auctions not being supported by eBay for a very long time now, the odds for selling an item for less than what someone would otherwise be willing to pay for it (which is the actual measure of value) are greatly increased.

In auctions, particularly on eBay, the value of the item isn't what the top bidder is willing to pay for it...but what the second highest bidder is.

The top bidder may have been willing to pay 25% more, 50% more, 200% more...no one knows, because that information is known only to the high bidder, and whomever he/she chooses to reveal it to.

But auction mechanics aside, the real value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it, and literally millions of listings over the last 15 years on eBay have proven that people are willing to pay more for an item outright than it usually ends at auction.

I believe what I say, because I have hundreds, if not thousands, of pieces of evidence that prove it, but what you're trying to equate it to (listing in an auction) has nothing to do with the reality of cracking, pressing, re-submitting, and ending up with a higher grade, and a higher value.

I don't know how else to explain this to you; it's hardly a secret. People have been doing this for a very, very long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
Put a 9.8 up for a 7 day auction, I'd say the odds of you breaking 3k are about one in ten.


That's an "impossible-to-prove" statement. Where do you come up with those odds?

But for this particular book, I'd say the odds are really 1:1 that you break $3,000 at this point in time for a 9.8, even in a 7 day listing. Again...the last copy just sold a little over a month ago for $4,800. $3,000 is going to be too tempting to too many people to pass up.

And you don't need more than one person to to pay the asking price to prove the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
I wouldn't VALUE a 9.8 at more than $1500.


Ok, but you do understand that that's an unrealistic valuation, based on current market dynamics, right?

Just because you wouldn't pay more than $1500, doesn't mean no one else would. In fact, if it were offered to me for $2,000, I'd hand over the cash without thinking about it.

That may change, but for right now, the market for these books in 9.8 is about $3500-$4800. The last three sales of CGC slabs were $4800, $4050, and $3383. Right NOW, the book is worth substantially more than $1500.
Post 76 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
I think 'anything' and 'everything' is the same thing.
Post 77 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown never mind. We're speaking two totally different languages. I'm speaking of value while you're focusing on sales price.
Post 78 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
@DocBrown never mind. We're speaking two totally different languages. I'm speaking of value while you're focusing on sales price.


No problem. Value is established by sales, otherwise there would be no way to value anything, but I think the points have been made fairly well. Thanks for the discussion!
Post 79 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Value is not always established by sales. Research the Dutch Tulip Bulb crash.
Post 80 IP   flag post


Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
Value is not always established by sales. Research the Dutch Tulip Bulb crash.


Exactly. Comics are a speculation market. At some point, the price of a comic stabelizes and it's true value is finally determined.

Any modern book that is selling more than its cover price is more than likely severely distorted from its actual value.
Post 81 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
I think the problem is Joe is taking a small slice of something and trying to apply it to everything.
Post 82 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics


Exactly. Comics are a speculation market. At some point, the price of a comic stabelizes and it's true value is finally determined.


How long does it take before the price of Batman #608 "stabelizes" (sic)? This book has been around for more than 16 years.

What is anything's "true" value? (The answer is still: what someone will pay for it.)

You said earlier in this thread that this book wasn't "worth" $600 when you bought it, but now you say it's true "value" (in 9.8) is $1500, despite completed sales which are more than double, to more than triple, that figure.

I'll ask again: where do you come up with your "1 in 10" odds that this book wouldn't sell for more than $3,000 in 9.8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
Any modern book that is selling more than its cover price is more than likely severely distorted from its actual value.


No. That's a bad conclusion, based on someone else's erroneous statement.

What something is worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. That's always been true, throughout the entire history of mankind.

And when a pattern of purchases for similar items in similar condition is established, we call that "Fair Market Value."

What's the Mona Lisa worth?

Don't know; it hasn't been sold since 1520 or so.

But do we have a general idea of what it's worth?

Sure, because we know what similar paintings by similar masters have sold for.

And, since we know that, we can form a reasonable estimation of what it is worth, being the most famous painting in the world...and that worth isn't $3.50.

Still an estimation, true...but a reasonable estimation, based on what other, similar (though obviously lesser) items have sold for.

(Pardon the preposition at the end.)
Post 83 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
"What something is worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. That's always been true, throughout the entire history of mankind."
Not true- merely read the thread on Chiofolo/Tadano. He paid $200,000 for All Star #3 in 8.5 among many other purchases. Does that mean All Star #3 in 8.5 was 'worth' $200,000? Not even close. Could he have re sold it for $200,000? No. Why? Because it wasn't worth that.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/22/8870089/texas-comic-book-heist-anthony-chiofalo-tadano
Post 84 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
If things were worth what people paid for it, you could buy a copy of Youngblood #1 for $50,000 and it would then be worth $50,000 and you could put it in your safety deposit box, a safe investment from then forward.
Post 85 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.

The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.

We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.

The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.

Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?
Post 86 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.

The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.

We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.

The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.

Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?

Agree 100%. I believe the variant glut will go the way of the 'valuable' foil covers of the 90s.
Post 87 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.

The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.

We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.

The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.

Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?

Agree 100%. I believe the variant glut will go the way of the 'valuable' foil covers of the 90s.


The '90s were over-produced. I would argue that the overwhelming majority (99%) are pretty much worthless. So worthless that the $1 bin is to high a price for them.

I do not believe the current variant bubble will burst quite as hard, but most of these variants are going to be worth about half of what they're selling for now.

Covers rarely (can not say never since there are exceptions to every rule) determine the value of a book, it's the story inside.
Post 88 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.

The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.

We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.

The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.

Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?

Agree 100%. I believe the variant glut will go the way of the 'valuable' foil covers of the 90s.


The '90s were over-produced. I would argue that the overwhelming majority (99%) are pretty much worthless. So worthless that the $1 bin is to high a price for them.

I do not believe the current variant bubble will burst quite as hard, but most of these variants are going to be worth about half of what they're selling for now.

Covers rarely (can not say never since there are exceptions to every rule) determine the value of a book, it's the story inside.

Before the mid 70s comics were just bought mainly to read. Then comic stores started opening and it became a collectible thing. Publishers boosted sales with a glut of #1 issues-and people bought multiple copies. How much is Starfire #1 worth today? Then in the 90s it was the foil covers-again aimed at collectors greed. Another crash. Now it's the variant glut. Manufactured collectibles never have staying power-you can't buy Franklin Mint and expect to make a killing.
Post 89 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.



What do you mean by "stabilise" (sic)?

Because books like Tomb of Dracula #10, Werewolf by Night #32, Ms. Marvel #1, House of Secrets #92, Batman #227, and Green Lantern #76, are all worth substantially more than they were in 2002, in just about every grade.

I'm not sure what you mean, then, by "stabilise" (sic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.


What is "the 30 year rule"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.


We've been sitting on a variant market bubble since variants went mainstream in the mid-00's. Before then, they were generally special events (particularly at DC and Marvel), and not "every issue has to have one or 47" situations.

As I've said elsewhere. the majority of variants will go down after a certain period of time...but that doesn't mean we are sitting in a "variant market bubble", the way we were in a "Valiant bubble" in early 1993, or a B&W bubble in the mid-80's, or an EC bubble in the early 70's, or a Silver Age Marvel bubble in the early 80's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.


The best investments are stocks, mutual funds, and the like.

Comic books are terrible investments. If you're buying comic books to invest...especially new comic books...you will almost certainly lose money.

For every "Walking Dead #1"...which only about 10,000 people can "invest" in...there are 100 Noble Causes, or Identity Crises, or Formerly Known As The Justice Leagues, or Superman #205s, or Batman #608s, etc etc etc.

Hindsight is grand, but foresight is rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?


Can you sell 100 9.8s for $100 each? Because that's how you would be able to match the results you got from that 1 sale for $10,000.

See, what you're missing is "scalability." If you can't do it over and over again, it's not a good investment.

If I buy 10,000 shares of WMT at $70, and it goes up to $110, every single one of those shares is worth $110.

If I buy 10,000 copies of Random Comic #X for $2.25, and a 9.8 goes to $100, I will NOT be able to sell 10,000 copies...provided I bought 10,000 9.8 copies...for $100 each.

So, great, you bought a single copy for $2.25 and managed to keep it in 9.8 condition...a feat in itself...and you sold it for $100.

Was that before or after grading fees? Shipping? Listing? FVF?

And now that you've sold it, and you have that $60 in your pocket, now what? For every dollar you spent, you actually only got $26.

You have to be able to repeat that process, over and over again, for it to have any meaning.

So...which comics do I buy today for $2.95/$3.95 that I can sell in X years for $100 in 9.8?
Post 90 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Batman 608 was published in October 2002. During its publication books from the 1970s were just starting to stabilise in price. Currently, books from the '80s are just now starting to stabilise.

With all this in mind, we have about another 15 to 20 year wait to see what the true value of this particular book is.

The only books that will flout the 30 year rule is books from the 90s.

We're, also, sitting on a variant market bubble. Sooner or later all these variants will drop in price. The question now is by how much.

The best investments is first print regular copies of books. You're paying cover price and if that issue goes up in value, then based on percentages you will see a much larger return on your investment.

Here's a better way to look at it.

Let's say you purchased a 9.8 for $1000 and sell it for, and I'll be very generous here, $10,000. You made $10 for every dollar you invested.

Now, let's say you buy a regular cover issue at time of release and paid the cover price of $2.25 and sell it for $100 in 9.8 graded. For every dollar invested you would have made just under $45.

Which is the better value?

Agree 100%. I believe the variant glut will go the way of the 'valuable' foil covers of the 90s.


The '90s were over-produced. I would argue that the overwhelming majority (99%) are pretty much worthless. So worthless that the $1 bin is to high a price for them.

I do not believe the current variant bubble will burst quite as hard, but most of these variants are going to be worth about half of what they're selling for now.

Covers rarely (can not say never since there are exceptions to every rule) determine the value of a book, it's the story inside.


I only discuss Batman #608 RRP because that was the example you brought up.

I'm more than happy to discuss a book like Harbinger #1 (1992), or Walking Dead #1, or Ultimate Spiderman #1, if you'd like.

These principles have nothing to do with whether a book is a variant.
Post 91 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Also...be very wary of misinformation being posted as "fact."

Fake news, so to speak. Lots of people out there who don't know what they're talking about, but speak as if they do.
Post 92 IP   flag post
Collector Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Also...be very wary of misinformation being posted as "fact."

Fake news, so to speak. Lots of people out there who don't know what they're talking about, but speak as if they do.


Amen to that.
Post 93 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
-And be wary of self-proclaimed 'experts' who shrug off anything posted that doesn't fit their need to be 'right' and 'expert'.
Post 94 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan510
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Also...be very wary of misinformation being posted as "fact."

Fake news, so to speak. Lots of people out there who don't know what they're talking about, but speak as if they do.


Amen to that.

lol yep
Post 95 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Comics can be good investments in the short term. 30℅ of my yearly income is from dealing comics.

In the long term, modern age comics, except for most of '90s comics, will be worth something.

People are correct in saying that the majority of comics will lose value, because they will. This is why I keep two collections, one is my personal collection, the second is my dealing collection.

In reference to stocks, when you buy a stock you're not paying what that share is actually worth, you're paying what it could be worth x amount of months or years from now. Amazon rarely turns a profit, in fact it never turned a full year profit until 2004, which was short lived, but its stock was still blue chip. Just like comics, stocks are a speculation market. Economies bust, just like comic bubvles.

I do collect variants, in fact I spend obscene amounts of money on them, but I buy them knowing that the majority will never hold that value.

What I buy to deal rarely loses money, but again I invest in low end books that hold potential for future value.
Post 96 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
If what you are doing works, and someone is telling you it won't work, just disregard their comments.
Post 97 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics
Comics can be good investments in the short term. 30℅ of my yearly income is from dealing comics.

In the long term, modern age comics, except for most of '90s comics, will be worth something.


That's not something that anyone can say. No one knows what 5, 10, 20 years will bring. No one knows what next year will bring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
People are correct in saying that the majority of comics will lose value, because they will. This is why I keep two collections, one is my personal collection, the second is my dealing collection.

In reference to stocks, when you buy a stock you're not paying what that share is actually worth, you're paying what it could be worth x amount of months or years from now. Amazon rarely turns a profit, in fact it never turned a full year profit until 2004, which was short lived, but its stock was still blue chip. Just like comics, stocks are a speculation market. Economies bust, just like comic bubvles.


Yes, stocks lose value, too.

However, that wasn't the point. The point is, stocks and mutual funds have been far, far superior investments than comic books. The fact that I even have to type that sentence out is pretty amazing. Comic books are a BAD investment, and they always have been.

Yes, of course there are exceptions, but they are very, very rare. For the people who happened to buy an unrestored Amazing Fantasy #15 that was accurately graded for $1,000 in 1986, there are 1,000 people who bought 10, 20, 50 copies of Fish Police #1. There will always be "the next big thing."

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCC
I do collect variants, in fact I spend obscene amounts of money on them, but I buy them knowing that the majority will never hold that value.

What I buy to deal rarely loses money, but again I invest in low end books that hold potential for future value.


So long as you buy what you like, it's never money wasted. It's when you start telling yourself, and then other people, that these are "surefire investments! Can't lose! These will make money in the long term!" that you (and anyone) will get in trouble.

But we have wandered far afield from the original point of the conversation, which was that you can, in fact, play the CPR game, and do it well, if you know what you're doing.
Post 98 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Wrong again. If you stuck to key issues and GA, comics would easily outperform stocks. And thats a no brainer. Don't buy fish police, buy AF15, GA caps, batman, etc etc etc. Your argument is if you just bought random comics you'd lose money. But no one with any knowledge of comics would do that.
Post 99 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
As far as 'if you know what you're doing' that's a self fulfilling statement. If it doesn't work you just say, well he didn't know what he was doing. You could say the same thing about gambling. 'You can win on slots IF you know what you're doing'.
Post 100 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
Wrong again. If you stuck to key issues and GA, comics would easily outperform stocks. And thats a no brainer. Don't buy fish police, buy AF15, GA caps, batman, etc etc etc. Your argument is if you just bought random comics you'd lose money. But no one with any knowledge of comics would do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kav
As far as 'if you know what you're doing' that's a self fulfilling statement. If it doesn't work you just say, well he didn't know what he was doing. You could say the same thing about gambling. 'You can win on slots IF you know what you're doing'.


These are great examples of someone who doesn't know comics, doesn't know the history of comics, and certainly doesn't know the history of the comics market, but feels perfectly free to speak in ignorance anyways.

The real danger is that comments like these sound reasonable, especially to people who also don't know the history of the comics market. They make sense, on the surface, but once you dig a little deeper, and apply even just basic logic, you start to find out all sorts of things, like, for example, the prevalence of restored books being sold as unrestored, for unrestored prices, back before CGC, especially Golden Age books.

That was a real, serious problem, and a lot of people still haven't made their money back on bad purchases in the 90's.

Is he aware, for example, that Silver Age keys declined in price, twice...? First in the early to mid 80's, and then again in the late 90's...? No.

Is he aware, for example, of the great Silver Age suck of 1987-1989, wherein high grade examples of ANY Silver Age books vanished from the market, making them completely unavailable to the market for nearly two more decades, before they finally started showing up in CGC slabs? No.

Is he aware, for example, that during the Black & White craze of 1986, Fish Police was one of the HOTTEST books in the country, and that people were gladly willing to pony up $30-$40...in 1986 dollars, mind you, when new comics were 75 cents...for a copy, thinking they had "the next big thing"...? No.

Is he aware, for example, that Howard the Duck #1 was an instant "sellout" across the country in 1976, and people were willing to pay $10-$20...for a 25 cent comic, mind you...within a month or two after it came out, because IT was "the next big thing"...?

Is he aware, for example, that Conan #1 was quite possibly the hottest "new book" of the 70's, and it was a $60 book by the end of the 1970's...where it remained, for essentially the next two decades, flat? No.

Is he aware, for example, that the vast, vast majority of "near mint" or "mint" books are what would today grade at CBCS as 7.0 to 9.0, despite people paying the "near mint" or "mint" prices for them? No.

Is he aware, for example, that the prices for nearly every Silver Age book (and many Golden Age books) were REDUCED substantially between the 1997-1998 Overstreet price guides, because of the ever-widening gap between high grade and lower grade copies, and that people who paid aggressive prices for 8.0 and lower copies didn't see anywhere near the return on their investments? No.

Is he aware, for example, that Golden Age books, from the 70's on, were never available in anything resembling quantity, and most buyers had to simply make do with what was available, making "investment" a dicey venture at best? No.

Is he aware, for example, that if you weren't a dealer, you simply didn't have access to most of the best material in the 70's, 80's, and 90's? No.

Is he aware, for example, that before the internet, buyers often had to travel long distances, at significant expense, just for the chance to buy "investment quality" material? No.

Is he aware, for example, that if you had bought "key Silver and Bronze 9.8s" in the early days of CGC, up until about 2011, you would almost certainly have lost money, sometimes significant amounts of money, and that some books...like Green Lantern #76, X-Men #94, GSXM #1, Hulk #181...the "blue chip" books...have all lost substantial amounts of money in "investment quality grades", by 50% or more, as a consequence of the census? No.

These, and many other things, are what this person doesn't know, but he speaks to you as if he does, and feels free to challenge anyone about things he doesn't know.

Like I said...be very, very careful about the information you get, and from whom. Test everything, check everything, and know that there are going to be people out there who don't have a clue what they're talking about, and will present no data or evidence to support what they're saying, but think nothing of saying it anyways.

As far as the "if you know what you're doing"...comparing the CPR business, which has made many people much money because they...watch me now...knew what they are doing to a machine that is programmed to make everyone lose over time, is, of course, patently absurd.

That's like saying "well, you can't be successful at real estate, even IF you know what you're doing"...or "you can't be successful at the stock market, even IF you know what you're doing."

Are there risks? Obviously. Life has risks. That doesn't mean people who know what they're doing, who know what to look for, and who have put in the time and effort to learn, is the same thing as "playing the slots."

Be diligent, folks. Learn, read everything you get your hands on, and be a smart buyer AND seller.
Post 101 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
WOW tldr...
Post 102 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Be wary if someone rebuts your simple points with like 20 other points each of which would need a separate rebuttal and then each of those rebuttals would get a 20 point response and there's just no way to keep rebutting that stuff. Overwhelming your opponent in a debate with endless multiple points may work somewhere but I never bite when someone has to resort to that tactic.
Post 103 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
Doc you've been typing for a while I'm getting scared!
Post 104 IP   flag post
Collector Kav private msg quote post Address this user
I SURRENDER!!!
Post 105 IP   flag post
394500 112 30
Thread locked. No more posts permitted. Return home.