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DKIII Master Race #7 1:500 Jim Lee Variant2218

COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
DKIII Master Race #7 1:500 Jim Lee Variant

Does anyone have any solid information on how many copies of this book exist? I've seen one retailer that said "less than 70."


Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
238 copies.
Post 2 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@OrbitCityComics Can you give a source for that info?
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
All you have to do is look up the sales on the book, in this case it was a little over 119,000, then divide by 500.

If it's truly a 1:500 variant, then there are 238 copies.
Post 4 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Was it a straight 1:500 print run or was it a 1:500 dealer incentive?

If dealer incentive you then need the number of shops as a secondary variable and even then its still a crapshoot guess. 238 would be the maximum if only 238 shops ordered any at all and equally, but its a good starting point.

Consider 1,000 shops ordering 50 each. There's almost half of the total run right there bringing that 238 possible copies down to 138.

70 sounds pretty close. Unless it was a straight dealer luck of the draw 1:500 print run, in that case @OrbitCityComics is correct...
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user
Will this series, and all of its variants, never end?
Post 6 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageIdiot
Will this series, and all of its variants, never end?


I didn't even know it was still going on. Gawd, talking about trying to continue flogging a dead horse.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
I think it's 12 issues, and it's not really that good.

I see the market on these books dropping like a rock. This book is currently valued at $500, but in a year from now I predict it will be half that price.

The book itself is not rare, just that one cover. Even if the number is 70ish, the cover itself is not enough to maintain the value.
Post 8 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer It was retailer incentive. Only retailers who ordered 500 regular got one.

@OrbitCityComics I figured you got that number by deviding from sales. But I don't know where to even begin finding sales numbers, which is why I asked for a source.
Post 9 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
If a low print existance and unique cover art isn't enough to maintain value then why has the Finch WW #38 maintained a consistant upward trend?


Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
The only thing that is low is the cover count. The book was number three in terms of sales volume, and that doesn't include the number of exclusives that were printed.

It's already showing signs of sliding in price. It's first few day asking price was $600, and it's already slid a $100.

It's a flavour of the week investment.
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
The cover and count are the only things that set apart every single variant on the market that is ever created. Except maybe for variants that result from Manufacture Errors.

You can't throw the demand of a variant under the bus just because there are 100,000+ of the regular book. In the market of variants, it is the cover that is being purchased more than the book inside.

If you have a personal problem with modern variants fine, don't purchase them, but that doesn't change the market for them or how the market determines their value. You don't get to decide that something is flavor of the week, that's your personal opinon, the marketplace demand as a whole over time decides where the value and popularity goes.

Also, this book isn't selling for $500. Sellers are asking for and trying to get $500. Ebay lists exactly 7 actual sales. Of those 7, 4 were Best Offer Accepted and we have no idea what the offer was because ebay won't disclose that info for some reason. The 3 others, a BIN at $399.99 (with a regular copy reader thrown in), an auction with 11 bids ending at $255.01, and the most recent sale a BIN at $329.

Not very much data to go on for a book that's only been on the market for 2 months. But looks like real sales are fluctuating inside the range of $250 to $400.

But, none of that pertains to my initial question which had absolutely nothing to do with the price, demand, or popularity of the book.
Post 12 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Need more data to figure this out.

Were there any issues that did NOT have a 1:500 variant? If so what was that print run? If there were two or three issues, even better data to go off of. We could take the average, see the difference in print run, and divide that by 500 to get pretty close.

That assumes this book was not more of a "key" than the issues around it, and of course assumes *most comic shops wont normally order 500 and those that did would have done so just for the variant
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer I do believe all 7 issues so far have had a Jim Lee 1:500.

Publishers don't release print numbers, they do release sales numbers. So the number that retailers ordered is known. Although I do not know where to look to get those numbers.
Post 14 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Damn. Well then there isnt much data to go on aside from that the true number is somewhere under 238.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Just because something is rare doesn't make it valuable. I, also, find the less than 70 number to be suspect at best.

One guy on eBay has 8 available. If there are less than 70 then he has more than 10% of the market.

Something isn't adding up.
Post 16 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@OrbitCityComics it could be that the comic is selling mostly for the variants rather than readers. In that case the number would be closer to the 238.

Additionally, if in order to get this book one must order 500 regular at 2.99, shouldnt the book be selling immediately for $500-1k+?
Post 17 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I also find the less than 70 claim dubious, which is what prompted the thread.

If the sales numbers @OrbitCityComics gave are correct then 238 is a reasonable maximum. I doubt every possible reatailer took advantage of the incentive. I think 200 or less is even a safe assumption.

I'd really like to get down to what information led to this retailer to make that claim.

The retailer in question is Bulletproof Comics


Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
@OrbitCityComics it could be that the comic is selling mostly for the variants rather than readers. In that case the number would be closer to the 238.

Additionally, if in order to get this book one must order 500 regular at 2.99, shouldnt the book be selling immediately for $500-1k+?


Even if you hit the top diamond tier for discount, which your weekly order has to be around $10k, you'd have to sell that book at $250 to break even on all 500 copies. Odds are, you'll be sitting on 450 books that are dead inventory and hitting the $1 bin in about six months.

If this cover is that rare, and demand is that high, then this book should be fetching upwards over $1000 in raw form.

My personal opinion, the numbers are skewed due to variant, and I do not believe Jim Lee to be that hot of an artist at this current time, or the story to be that great.

I believe Lee to have plateaued during his Batman Hush run. I do give Lee credit in the fact that he is one of the more famous cover artists who also does interior work. Most cover artists are just that, pretty cover artists, who are to divaish to do interiors.
Post 19 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Definitely a product that is going to be skewed toward Jim Lee collectors. Of the 7 Lee 1:500 covers so far it's in my opinion the most badass piece of art out of the 7.

But that's pretty much the variant market. Whether it be Jim Lee, Dell'Otto, Campbell, Kirkham. It's the specific fans of the artists that drive the market.

Is there is any type of information out there that shows a breakdown of sales numbers per retailers?

Still trying to get a source for basic sales numbers.

Anyone...Anyone...
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Definitely a product that is going to be skewed toward Jim Lee collectors. Of the 7 Lee 1:500 covers so far it's in my opinion the most badass piece of art out of the 7.

But that's pretty much the variant market. Whether it be Jim Lee, Dell'Otto, Campbell, Kirkham. It's the specific fans of the artists that drive the market.

Is there is any type of information out there that shows a breakdown of sales numbers per retailers?

Still trying to get a source for basic sales numbers.

Anyone...Anyone...


Only if Diamond decides to release that number, which I doubt will be anytime soon.

If they did, then retailers would be quite upset, especially if their sitting on the book.

There's somewhere between 10 to 20 retailers who can justify an order that order that large to get a single book and still expect to sell more 50℅ of that book.

Considering that one eBay seller is sitting on 8 copies tells me there are more than 70 copies out there.
Post 21 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
The entire conversation on limited print runs, and variant covers reeks of the speculation trends the 1990's. It is sad that the comic industry has not learned from past mistakes, and returns to the gimmicks of the past to prop-up sales numbers.

I just wonder who will be left standing this time around when the bubble burst.
Post 22 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
If you only buy what you are willing to keep, then bubbles are meaningless.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
The entire conversation on limited print runs, and variant covers reeks of the speculation trends the 1990's. It is sad that the comic industry has not learned from past mistakes, and returns to the gimmicks of the past to prop-up sales numbers.

I just wonder who will be left standing this time around when the bubble burst.


The ironic part is that after that bubble burst, in my opinion, we ended up with a good run of books that were worth reading.

A lot of thay, I believe, is that many companies had to make hard decisions on talent and we ended up with the best artists and writers standing, and those that didn't make the cut went on to start their own companies.
Post 24 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Mef private msg quote post Address this user
Hey Bro, I heard you like variants so we made a variant of your variant so you can buy your variant while buying another variant.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....


Very good points. Comic titles are often being printed to 1/10th of what they were during the 90s.

I believe many of these variants will drop in value once time has passed and the populace finally decides which stories were actually stories that were worth printing, and which were just money grabs.

I, also, predict that the crap stories with nice covers that will retain value are artists first appearances. This may be a new "key" measurement.

Example: J Scott Campbell's first variant may be valuable just because it's Campbell's first appearance as a cover artist.

I could very well be wrong on that part, but only time will tell.
Post 27 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)


I guess it depends on how we define rare. 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, or 1:what? Also, the pool size of people that will turn into collectors is smaller. Not as many people are exposed to comics today.
Post 28 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Rare is relative to the number of humans who desire said object. There can be 12 copies of something, but if only only 2 humans desire it, supply has exceeded demand. It's always about supply and demand.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)


I guess it depends on how we define rare. 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, or 1:what? Also, the pool size of people that will turn into collectors is smaller. Not as many people are exposed to comics today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)


I guess it depends on how we define rare. 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, or 1:what? Also, the pool size of people that will turn into collectors is smaller. Not as many people are exposed to comics today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)


I guess it depends on how we define rare. 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, or 1:what? Also, the pool size of people that will turn into collectors is smaller. Not as many people are exposed to comics today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There is a difference there though. My 90s comics that were "valuable" were printed by the millions. Some of these modern variants are actually rare. Not really apples to apples comparison.

I do see the point of keys vs non key variants where Demand may at some point die and prices fall. However, longterm, in the future when looking back at the 2010's the only valuable stuff will be these rare variants. Looking back at the 90s, there is almost nothing rare at all....

(Except what hides in JWKyles longbox 😁)


I guess it depends on how we define rare. 1:50, 1:100, 1:500, or 1:what? Also, the pool size of people that will turn into collectors is smaller. Not as many people are exposed to comics today.


Very Rare is 1-10 copies.
Rare is 10 - 20 copies.
Scarce is 20 - 100 copies.

This is how Overstreet defines these terms.
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