Web Of Spiderman 18 label differences?2181
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 Collector
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Tr3ntOw3ns private msg quote post Address this user | |
Curious as to why the the CBCS labels on this book don't specify the Venom cameo, even the Overstreet guide notes this book as a Venom cameo. CGC labels are just blank on this boom, what's up with that? |
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 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Tr3ntOw3ns Just fyi - no pgx slabs are allowed to be pictured here. Just CGC and CBCS. | ||
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Tr3ntOw3ns private msg quote post Address this user | |
I was unaware of that, but ok  They aren't good, but i just wanted to use it as reference to the problem, but i'll keep that in mind! Sorry. So for anyone reading this post edit, the PGX slab notates the book as "Brief Venom appearance (in shadows)" |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My opinion - cbcs & cgc are supposed to be grading companies. Neither does even an "OK" job with annotating 1st appearances or cameos or similar and that's ok because they're not supposed to. I know it's nice to have info on a label but grading companies should grade. Let the market determine if Muscleman's finger in the last caption is a "cameo". Otherwise grading companies get involved with the nonsense us fans argue over. Personally I'd rather have no information on the label other than the numeric grade. | ||
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 Collector
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TruckJohnson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I say the more info about the book the better. As long as the information is accurate, I wouldn't mind having every important or meaningless FACT about the comic on the label. The back of the label (normally left blank or used for a bunch of disclaimer info) would be a great place to list all this stuff. Considering all the variants out there, any added info that differentiates or makes clear which book is which -- I'm all for it! |
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 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Nuffsaid111 @TruckJohnson although opposite, you both make good points. There's a thread here about Jessica Cruz labels. CGC lists completely different "facts" than CBCS. Different first appearances, different cameos. IF there was a way to keep the companies consistent with one another, the more facts the better imo, but its unlikely the two companies will collaborate on this  |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Understood and I figured I'm in the minority. Im just of the opinion that "information" and "accuracy" are highly contested words these days. And in the collectible industry folks get real irate and debate for days over the accuracy of information. I let the market determine; not slabbers... it's safer for them | ||
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I do not agree with this commentary. Folks have come to appreciate this useful information, there is no hidden agenda, just comics lore from knowledgeable individuals. If you wish to eliminate hugely valuable comments like "First appearance of Doctor Doom" etc., what would you consider appropriate? |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Shrewbeer - excellent example with Jessica cruz. Is her arm a cameo? Additiinal ones - Is Kaluu eyes a 1st app in doctor strange? Is the 1st app of warlock FF 67 or thor 165 or marvel premiere 1? Accuracy is a scary word. Folks believe accuracy to be what they want to believe it to be. When it's different they complain. If cgc and cbcs are in the business to grade... then grade. | ||
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Tr3ntOw3ns private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I appreciate the conversation going on, and i'm on the side of the more information the better. But i'm really curious as to how a book gets labeled, like, how does CGC writing a label differ from CBCS writing a label, where does the information come from that they write their labels based on come from? | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Tr3ntOw3ns No idea on CGC. I had a conversation with CBCS cust service about this though. From what I was told, if a grader encounters a book CBCS has not graded yet, they do extensive "research" on the book and enter the official CBCS label note (if any) into the computer for future reference. I actually asked that they research my book first so that I could be assured of the label, but was told I would have to subit the book in order to trigger it. Was also told to hand write on my invoice what I "thought" it should say so that it could be verified as well. Sent in ten  ... anxiously awaiting...As for your original question, I would assume the researcher either missed it or did not agree with what you want. Drop an email to them to find out |
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jrs private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Isn't it basically information from the OPG? I would imagine that's the first source consulted. |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Actually I feel the market can't determine this. I think it can determine if the comic is worth more than whatever other comic, but it can't determine a character's history. The creative team does that. For example; If Michelinie and/or Silvestri intended this to be a cameo of some kind, but collectors completely ignore it, do Michelinie and/or Silvestri shrug and say, "I guess this isn't a cameo."? Hulk #180 is the 1st appearance of Wolverine, but the market has determined that #181 is the more desirable and valuable because it's a full appearance and his first cover appearance, not because it has determined it is his 1st appearance. |
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MR_SigS |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MR_SigS Good point. There are also so many grey areas on this topic. Look at X factor #5 for instance. In my opinion, that is MUCH more than a cameo of Apocolypse. | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips I get what you're saying  . I, myself, don't let something like that bother me because I have no problems with a 1st appearance being a cameo. Some 1 panel 1st appearances are cool (Hulk 180), and some are laaaaaame (Jimmy Olsen 134), but as far as I'm concerned it's still a 1st appearance.I don't believe a 1st appearance must be more valuable just because it is a 1st. If no one is interested in it, then that's that, but it's still the 1st appearance. Gambit is another example- Big debate based on what was supposed to happen. X-Men 266 apparently was supposed to be released first, but for reasons came out very shortly AFTER X-Men Annual 14, so many feel that makes the Annual the 1st app, and I totally agree. It doesn't matter what Marvel's intentions were; the fact that an avid reader who faithfully purchased their X-books the day they're available saw a new character calling himself Gambit in X-Men Annual 14 before anywhere else makes it his 1st app. Does that mean it HAS to be more valuable than X-Men 266? Not at all. |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MR_SigS I totally agree with the X men Annual 14 being a first app. That was the next one that came to mind for me too. | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips Yes, that can't even begin to be called a "cameo". It'd be, by far, the BIGGEST cameo of all time by a huge percentage. Comparing Darkseid's 1st app to Gambit's is like comparing Sol to UY Scuti. |
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SavageFinale private msg quote post Address this user | |
  i personally like more information as long as it is fact. Even though I like the amount of information on the cgc label for this comic I will still send it to cbcs to crack and press. |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The label for MTU also says simply, "1st appearance of the black costume." Bet that can confuse new collectors. |
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 CBCS Head Grader
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SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Actually, the back of the CBCS label has the following information; "New black costume appears concurrently with Marvel Team-Up #141 & Spectacular Spider-Man #90." It has the same information on the back of MTU 141 and Spectacular 90. |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Definition "Fact": a thing that is indisputably the case. If we as fans argue constantly over 1st appearances; 1st cameos; heroes in costume or by name only, changes to names of character 1st appearances, Overstreet as the bible, wiki as the bible, an arm being a cameo; an eyeball in 4 panels as a 1st app, an altered costume as a different character, etc etc etc... Then I ask what is accurate and fact if we can't all universally agree it is fact. I maintain writer, artist, inker can be on label (these are universally accepted facts). Leave off the other "facts" that are sometimes misleading as stated or flat out incorrect or questionable |
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SteveRicketts Ok- I saw just a front label example. |
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