Opinions Requested: eBay Purchase of Raw Comic21518
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'd like to solicit opinions here on this scenario. Timeline eBay Purchase date: Oct 10, 2024 Delievery Date: November 3, 2024 Date mailed to CBCS: November 4, 2024 Date of CBCS results: January 31, 2025 Date of contacting eBay seller: January 31, 2025. Synopsis Buyer purchases raw comic from eBay with undiscolsed restoration. Seller (from USA) mails book to buyer through the eBay Global Shipping Program. This piece is relevant because the USA seller mails to an eBay Depot. Ebay then becomes responsible for getting the product to the buyer by a certain time or the purchase price is refunded (by eBay not the seller....seller keeps his money). eBay was late getting the book to the buyer so the buyer was refunded by eBay. Buyer immediately sends raw in for professional Grading and Pressing. Book is confirmed as Restored. Buyer contacts seller advising he would like to be refunded the cost of Grading and Pressing (and a small portion of shipping cost) amounting to $77.79USD. The actual cost. Buyer states he will send photos of the slab so seller can compare to pre-slabbed pictures of book to ensure books are one and the same. Seller states the only way he can refund is if buyer sends him back the book. Buyer states: No, refunding the incurred Grading/Pressing costs for a book that would never have been purchased in the first place is a fair solution. Also, buyer is likely to try and sell the book. Universal version of this book is about $200USD....Restored version, maybe $75 or so?. Is the buyer being unfair to the seller for requesting out of pocket Grading/Pressing expenses on a book he would never have purchased (and keeping the book for likely sale)? |
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| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Kilraven private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yes, the buyer is in the wrong. The transaction was completed once the buyer received the refund and kept possession the purchased item. What they do with it afterwards is none of your concern. | ||
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GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, from what I gathered, if the buyer was refunded fully and able to keep the comic, then I dont see any harm in how things went down. The Buyer basically got a free book. What a buyer does with a comic they purchase after a transaction is completed has nothing to do with the seller. On the portion of the "non-disclosed" restoration. Maybe the seller truly was not aware it had color touch or whatever else it may or may not of had. When the buyer is asking for a refund on the cost of the grading, pressing and shipping, the seller didn't force the buyer to choose to take these actions. But from what I gathered, the seller would have refunded the full amount for the comic but wasn't aware of the Grading and Pressing fees until after the buyer got the comic back from the Grading company and disclosed the actions afterwards. The way I see it is as this Example: That's like if a seller sells a classic car, but the seller wasn't aware the numbers dont match on the engine and the body had restoration (new floor pans welded in etc.) but the buyer took it to get appraised and then asked the seller to pay for the appraisal fees. It is a tuff spot. Maybe the buyer can work out a deal with the seller to pay for HALF the cost of the total for the Pressing and Grading. $38.90 and be done with it. This way both the buyer and the seller splits the difference in the cost to make it even, since both the seller and the buyer got what they wanted. (Seller got paid, Buyer got refunded and a free comic.) Then lessons learned on both sides. Another way to look at it is if the seller will not give half the cost of the Grading, Pressing and Shipping back to the buyer as a refund: The buyer, lets say, paid $200 for the book (given the amount you said its valued) that is $200.00 (Comic Cost) - $77.80 (Slab Cost) = $122.20 (Net Profit since Buyer was Fully Refunded.) Buyer can sell the restored slabbed comic for $75.00 (given value you stated it can be sold). Buyer still profits total of $197.20 (If the Buyer paid the $200.00 max range for the comic.) |
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
A similar event occurred to me a couple of years ago. I purchased two raw Hulk comics from High Grade Comics online. They were Pence editions of issues #4 and #6.  A few months after my purchase, I sent them out for pressing, and it was several months before they were returned. I then sent them out for grading, again waiting several months to get them back. Unfortunately, issue #6 was found to have been trimmed - “ Top edge of cover & bottom edge of front cover trimmed.”  I had made several purchases over the years from High Grade Comics, and knew that they had a policy regarding restored comics. So I contacted Bob Storms at High Grade, explained my dilemma, and included pictures of the graded book. I received an email back stating that according to their policy, he would be happy to refund my purchase price if I returned the book. I emailed him back and asked him about shipping, pressing, and grading costs. I was informed that those were on me. I would only be repaid for the original price I paid for that book. To make a long story short, I kept the book and High Grade lost a customer. I ended up trading the book, and eventually sold the book I got in return for $200 and two non-key filler books. I definitely lost money on it, as just my shipping, pressing, and grading costs for the Hulk #6 were probably $100 or more. So I guess this is how most dealers handle restoration. It makes them look good to say they have a no restoration policy, but in practice it probably means most buyers just end up keeping the book anyway. In all fairness to High Grade, I am sure that they didn’t know about the trimming. The small (less than 1/2 inch) piece of tape on the inside cover was disclosed on their description of the raw book. They could have kept me as a customer if they had just offered me a small credit towards my next purchase. So we both lost out. |
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 Collector
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So the buyer got his money back from his purchase and still wants the seller to pay for his grading fees? Messed up world we live in. Post amended by Moderation |
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 Collector
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andy49 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What the buyer does with the book after purchase isn't the responsibility of the seller, imo. I bought a book from Roger Hill off of ebay, the condition he described as comparable to a Gaines file copy. When I had it graded and it came back as a 7.0 (certainly not the grade of a typical Gaines file copy), I returned the book for my purchase price. He asked about my grading expense and I told him that grading it was my decision and didn't expect him to pay anything for that. |
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SidTheSquid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As the seller, I wouldn't pay the partial refund, or cost of grading or whatever. The book sold for what it did because it was raw. Catching things like restoration are why the grading companies exist- and the buyer knew that. And if you don't want to risk it, buy the book already graded. They took a risk and they lost. As the buyer, I wouldn't buy from that seller again. Hopefully they didn't know about the restoration, because if they did, they should have disclosed it. But if I get burned once buying from a dealer that maybe should have caught something like restoration, I don't really want to have it happen again. In any case, the transaction is over. In my opinion. |
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 Forum Crier
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I agree with @GanaSoth and @esaravo. It sucks. Same thing happened with me. I bought this Hulk magazine (along with others)and decided about a year later to get it slabbed. I didn't find out there was restoration until way after the fact so I have no recourse. Restoration includes: small pieces re-attached to interior pages with glue  |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Settle down there Timmy...asking for opinions not emotional responses from people with no skin the game. So, is the general consensus that a buyer can be out money on Grading/Pressing a book they would never have bought in the first place? I understand the cost of the book was refunded...so there's a zero sum to the buyer there (remember, the seller still got paid)....but the cost incurred by the buyer (Grwde/Press: $80USD/$120CDN) is his to eat? Serious ask..I just want to make sure I'm clear on this. If the book was returned, then the seller should refund the cost incurred (Grading/Press $77.79 including return shipping), is that accurate? It's the keeping of the Restored book that makes that an unreasonable request, right? |
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 Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Kilraven ^^ THIS ^^ Buyer is unreasonable. Raw books have no guarantee or grade or status. His original purchase was refunded. Side note: A court in the USA is about making a person "whole". He was made whole when ebay refunded his money AND he got to keep the book. There has been no financial "loss" to him from the original transaction. He chose to incur extra costs in grading. There is nothing he could do anyway at this point - he's not flying from overseas to the seller's state to file a small claims lawsuit. He cant do a chargeback on his credit card because its already been refunded. He can sell the book as is and use that money to recoup his costs for grading. If he gets more aggressive, seller can put him on the ebay block list. |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
 Apparently, I am easily annoyed.
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Rbolton private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess I see this differently, you need to know what you are selling, the buyer would not have bought the item if he had known about the restoration, seller did not note any restoration. Buyer would not have sent it for grading if restoration had been disclosed. In my opinion the seller should maybe meet in the middle and refund half of the grading fees etc. and learn the valuable lesson of knowing exactly what you are selling before listing it. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| OK, Thanks everyone! I appreciate most of this feedback 🤣!! Consider this matter closed.  |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Rbolton I'm more in line with your train of thought. But I'll close this matter as is because most people are "buyer beware" it seems....but I do agree with you. | ||
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Forum Crier
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess in the future maybe buyers should contact the seller if there is any restoration because they plan on getting it graded. That may cover them for any refund in the future??? | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ....and FYI, the seller is a comic book seller...not a mom and pop store....only comics, including slabs, if that matters at all. | ||
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I see it like this... If the book is graded and found to be restored, the seller shoulder refund the purchase price and let the buyer keep the book since he is out the pressing grading fees. If the seller wants the book back, then he has two options. He can refund the purchase price of the book and pay the grading fees and have the book returned in the slab. If he doesn't want the book back slabbed, then he should pay at least half the grading fees as he is now benefiting from the knowledge of the book being graded. He's knows it's restored and the potential grade of the book. Just a thought. The seller selling the book as unrestored sets into motion a chain of events that otherwise wouldn't have occurred if the book was listed as restored. |
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson In this case, the buyer already got his money back from Ebay. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson This is the most reasonable and fair solution, I agree. I, personally, would give a little lattitude to a seller (i.e. accept a little more of the risk), if they were not a purely comic seller. I may not know that 100% conclusively, but if their eBay store also has clothing, knick knacks, etc. I'm more willing to accept risk because I'll assume they don't know the nuances of comic collecting. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Now, just to keep the conversation going. What if the value of the Restored/slabbed book was considerably less than the cost of Grading/Pressing/Shipping? Does that change anything? In this particular case, the Grading/Pressing/Shipping cost is comparable to the value of the Restored/Slabbed book...albeit, it will take forever to sell this Restored book. |
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC In my opinion, the value doesnt matter. He chose to take a raw book (that was fully refunded) with no guarantees of grade or condition and submit for grading. He takes full responsibility for that. This is a similar scenario I faced about 15 months ago where I bought a raw book signed by Stan Lee with the "Stan Lee Collectibles" coa. I sent it in for signature verification. It came back "un-authentic". I asked the seller for my money back. He said no. Since it was past the 30 days return window, I couldnt open an ebay case. Ultimately I submitted the book to PSA-DNA and it got authenticated (but just not graded). So I essentially paid $50 more for the 2nd grading than I should have. If memory serves, many people in here said "that's on you - your seller wouldnt be responsible for return or reimbursement as he would have no way of knowing if the book would or would not pass authentication". In your situation, the buyer got fully refunded for his purchase. Value of book isnt pertinent. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @multi007 Thanks for the response...it's interesting to get opinions from other collectors for certain scenarios. I totally get the "buyer beware" attitude but I also understand the "seller should know what they're selling" stance as well. To me, it comes down to this....if a seller says "I don't know if it's Restored...I haven't checked" and I buy and it's Restored...100% on me. Seller told me he doesn't know. So if he doesn't know, then it's possible it's Restored. With signatures...you know it's signed...even with a coa, you know it's possible it might not get verified/authenticated...that's a possibility.If it fails, that's on you. But I feel if the seller says the book is unrestored or doesn't disclose he doesn't know ow if it isrestored....at the very least it's a more grey scenario. Maybe I have to change my approach to raw books...I can't assume the book is unrestored even if the seller says so ir doesn't disclose its possible it could be Restored. |
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So the seller is on the hook for pressing? What does pressing a book discover it is restored? What if the buyer took the book to a con and got a couple of signatures done on the book and submitted the supposedly unrestored book thru witness signature. Is the dealer on the hook for the cost of the signatures and witness signature costs from the grading company? One could argue that the buyer bought the book as advertised as not restored and they need to be compensated for the whole lot to be made whole again. Just a interesting scenario |
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think all raw books sold are sold under the auspices of "here is the book - buy it or dont. I can not guarantee a grade, restoration etc" UNLESS - of course - its specifically stated "THIS BOOK WAS RESTORED". EDITED: Ive also added "authentication is not GUARANTEED" to my mind when I buy a raw book with a simple COA. lol |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @southerncross The premise is this... had the book been advertised as Restored..it would never have been purchased. As @DrWatson stated...the undisclosed Restoration puts into motion all the expenses incurred. Had the seller checked the book for restoration, they would have found it....then disclosed it and the purchase would not have happened. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Do we agree the book was misrepresented? | ||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If a buyer has expectations that post-purchase expenses would potentially need to be covered by the seller, they need to reach that understanding with the seller before purchasing. And probably a maximum amount should be agreed on. The seller should have the right to know those expectations in time to walk away from the sale and look for a buyer who doesn't have those same expectations. It's just not fair to the seller to come back later and say that expectations were that an unlimited amount of post-purchase expenses would be refunded, in addition to the purchase price. | ||
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don’t. Who checks all their raws for restoration though? Even higher end raws? Do we need to start putting this in the descriptions? “Please see detailed photos. Book sold as is.” Or “I can not guarantee this raw book has been restored”? What about amateur restoration where they take a black marker and dot the spine ticks? How could you know? Do we all need to start putting disclaimers now? |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If you're buying from a professional comic book dealer, then I would expect the book to be untrestored unless otherwise noted. | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbayMafia valid point. @multi007 when you ask "Who checks all their raws for restoration though?" I would hope anyone selling raws. Does this scenario change at all if you swap Restoration for Pieces/Centerfold Missing? What is the minimum threshold of responsibility on the sellers part describing the condition of his raw book? |
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 I'm a McNugget guzzler.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You didn’t see the restoration but they should have? Did the book get shipped right to the person pressing? | ||
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