The cgc Raise Prices Effective January 21, 202521443
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The only way CGC falls from #1 is if they go bankrupt or implode from other nefarious ways including gross incompetence (which from outside looking in, is a distinct possibility). No other slabbing company will overtake cgc while cgc remains in business. They've had a 16-17 year head start with virtually zero competition (PGX doesn't count). The vast majority of important books are all in cgc slabs. Most collectors collections are in cgc slabs. The race or competition is always and has always been for spot #2. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Well then I'm proudly supporting number two because we're the  |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 I have not set up at a con since 2029.
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PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC True, but the only competition thus far to CGC has been CBCS. What will determine PSA's standing in the graded comic marketplace is: A/ PSA's standing in the graded cards market; PSA graded cards are by far the top dog of the graded cards market in terms of the number of cards submitted to PSA for grading. Beckett is at the bottom of the graded cards market with CGC Cards in 3rd place. B/ PSA has long standing ties to all major auction houses. Auction houses like Heritage, Metropolis, CConnect, CLink is where most higher value graded books are sold. C/ PSA Vault will have a program set up on eBay letting buyers of raw comics have the seller of te raw comic, ship the raw comic directly to PSA for grading.This is a very big thing. See below for D CBCS has consistently dropped the ball in failing to capitalize on CGC's mistakes. CBCS hasn't even spent the little amount of money on creating a actual forum board. The CGC Forums were key in making the CGC name what it is. A proper forum board would be the first step for CBCS to take NOW, before PSA opens their doors, to lessen CBCS's decreasing market share. One of the recent CGC boardies who was suspended from that board recently posted about the problems with the archaic layout of this board, and cited those problems as the reason he wouldnt post here regularly, FFS. CGC hasn't fully corrected their banana holder, they have lessened the severity of the bending issue. Instead of correcting the problem, CGC deleted all references to the problem's existance on their forums. How many books with mild bends seen as acceptable by CGC will progress to color breaking spine tics in a few months from now? Will the sellers of those books point out the damage when they list tem for sale? Most sellers will not. [b]D Higher end slabs are not typically sold on eBay. Modern slabs are what sells the most on eBay. This is where e factors described above allow for a player like PSA to enter the graded comics market.[/b] It is conceivable that PSA could overtake CGC as the comic grading company that gets the best premiums for graded books. The best thing about PSA entering the market is that competition to CGC will force CGC's hand to fix their Goddamn banana holders. The underlying issue has not been corrected, it has only been tweaked. CGC's current actions in sweeping this problem under the rug, firing/laying off broads swaths of employees do not show a position of strength in the market. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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I have not set up at a con since 2029.
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PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Another key factor in the graded comics market that is a big plus in PSA's favor is the current economic positions of both CGC and CBCS. Beckett's top CEO was recently convicted of financial crimes. This led to the creation of what a new firm's creation, as Beckett's/CBCS owner, with the same ownes. All it amounts to is rebranding. Than onto CGC's economic position; CGC's situation of their decision to only plaster over the banana holder issues and laying off CGC employees is a clear sign of weakness. Will CGC address heir main problem, as in fully resolve their banana cses when PSA hits the comic market? This will be the biggest thing holding CGC back from retaining their long standing position of being the top dog in the graded comic market. CBCS can only compete for scraps from CGC and PSA. CBCS is currently not even taking the steps needed to do so. What has CBCS doe since all the problems CGC has had over the past year? CBCS put out a promotional cideo mocking CGC's banana holders. That's not going to cut it. CBCS case security is really no better than CGC's and to add to that, CBCS doesn't scan front and rear covers of all newly graded books as CGC started doing in 2024. Holder security can never be foolproof, as Immaculate Co,ics has shown. Bottom line is that both CBCS and CGC are not doing their job, in various ways. This is a prime opportunity for PSA to enter the graded comics market. The overall economy is not in a position of growth, which is something that is glossed over and ignored by most economists, as well. It is ultimately geopolitical events that drive the financial markets, with the US govt currently funding 3 wars....this will translate into a continual collectibles market downturn. I highly suggest reading Nick Beams to understand the above issues, which are intimately wed to the declining position of the US dollar. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I'm very very lost, but I'm not sure. But I do know, for sure, that I got lost on how PSA will succeed because of the poor economy and the funding of wars? |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like comic books. | ||
| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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DoorCntyComicColl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm bored so lets start a rumble.. Let's say you have in your possession a raw Hulk #181 that could easily be a 9.8. Who would you give that to be graded? If not CGC where you know will get a 15-20% higher return even if you plan to hang on to this book for years that percentage difference is where you are talking thousands of dollars. For this example based on sales from GoCollect which by the way CBCS HAS NO 9.8 LISTED!! That in itself speaks volume... You want to even the playing field with CGC? Great my question is why CBCS does not allow customers the ability to see how many books were graded for a particular issue. Does that even exist because I can't find it? On GoCollect they tell you the number of CGC books graded.. for CBCS there is no data for total books graded.. Same issue with GPAnalysis... No CBCS data... I've submitted books to CBCS from books I got signed 40 years ago to have signatures authenticated but stopped. Why? Because again there was no way to see how many of those books CBCS has authenticated so I can decide what the actual FMV is. It's this lack of transparency that is a complete turnoff for me. Let the debate and mud slinging begin!! |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In before the lock!!! Sorry but I would rather spend money to get a book graded there it's going to come back to me in the condition I sent in. Even if it means taking FMV hit. Oops.  |
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| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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DoorCntyComicColl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @ComicNinja0215 Fair enough.. I can see that point.. I did a submission to CGC with a pre-screen only to have a number of the books come back with the same corner crunches... I had no way to prove if they did it or they got damaged through shipping to CGC But can you me tell me if CBCS has a way to allow customers the ability to see how many books were graded for a particular issue? I have not been able to find that... |
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| Post 59 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC   I did not think their case was significantly larger. Here are the pics I took…I should have put a CGC/cbcs slab up against it…but it seemed comparable to me in dimensions. I will say it was 2-3 times as heavy though…lot of thick plastic in that thing. |
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| Post 60 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DoorCntyComicColl They don't and i can see that being a problem for them long term despite the population report. I hate myself for saying this but thinking about th3 book you mentioned; i would send it to cgc. The ONLY reason though would be to flip it almost immediately. If I had that book in that condition knowing how rare it might be then I'm going all in. If it wanted to keep knowing I would never get it again; it's going to cbcs. I could sell it cbcs but the buyer is going to crack it and send it to the cgc. O can definitely see the dilemma in the market between the two companies. This could be an interesting discussion provided it stays civil. |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Drogio It looks cool but im not convinced. I don't think they're going to run the table like everyone thinks. |
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| Post 62 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Drogio I read in multiple places that the PSA slabs were bigger and that never made sense to me. I took those claims at face value because I didn't see a reason not to. That being said, it really seems like a rookie mistake on PSA's part if they don't make their slabs virtually the same dimensions as CGC/CBCS. PSA has to know that could be a deal breaker for many collectors who already have slabbed books in their collection. What you are saying seems to make more sense for sure. I'd really like to see side by side pictures. I also read that the PSA slabs are quite robust and heavy...that's actually appealing to me. That's a characteristic of the new CBCS slabs I really like. |
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| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Fix that label lol | ||
| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DoorCntyComicColl You mean the Population Report?  |
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| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson that's the one lol | ||
| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Drogio I think you're right about the dimensions. Horizontally the slabs look similar in dimensions. Vertically, the PSA slab might be taller but only by a bit...hard to tell for sure though. |
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| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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DoorCntyComicColl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson I'm officially a dumba**.. | ||
| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DoorCntyComicColl no worries sir. | ||
| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DoorCntyComicColl No arguments there. |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
 I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DoorCntyComicColl I don't think CBCS has any control over GPA (or any other price tracker). It's not the fault of CBCS that their slabs aren't tracked. | ||
| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PolarisNuclearSS2020 You mention a couple things that seem out of left field. A US economy that lacks growth and “the declining position of the US dollar.” On the growth topic, while I expect a downturn (especially if we see tariffs as proposed) there has been nothing but growth over the past several years. So that just doesn’t make sense… some other countries have done poorly but thanks to the mighty credit card and Americans’ (and Canadians’) propensity to consume their way out of everything, growth is not lacking. On the decline of the US dollar, what are you comparing it to? Seems the last few years (and past 12 months in particular) the US dollar has outperformed all other major currencies. Sometimes spectacularly. Just ask our Canadian friends as they will see another round of price hikes for things priced out in USD… Back to the topic, I suspended my CGC renewal (unchecked that box). Not because of any issues I experienced directly (maybe I lucked out) but because of overall behavior vis-a-vis some of their most loyal and vocal customers (the forum). This latest price hikes may be poorly timed but I don’t see CBCS in any position to capitalize on it. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If CBCS doesn't; PSA will. | ||
| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I might be mostly done with grading if it isn't for reselling purposes. I started slabbing because I mostly liked that the signatures on a comic could be verified but all of these issues with grading and case problems just have me thinking that most of my valuable comics have been slabbed between 2012 to 2020 so keeping cheap stuff raw with signatures I've seen signed in front of my eyes is the way to go. Price hikes on slabbing services and declining prices on comics are not helping either. And charges for witnessed signatures have gone off the rails too. I understand that artists have to make a living and take time off to attend conventions but $30 for a signature on a comic that is not worth $100 once slabbed is ridiculous. I've seen the slabbed market in a downward spiral along with modern comic values. | ||
| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SpiderTim I set up at many small local shows throughout the past years (and will this year as well) I can state, unequivocally, without doubt, that the number of eyes and the volume of interest in my slabbed books I bring is the tiniest of percentage when compared to my raw books I bring to the show. In most instances, potential buyers will buy the raw book they believe to be equivalent grade to the graded book at near equal prices. It is bizarre. I don't know when this happened, but it is very alarming to me because, really, as a seller, why the F would I grade a book for $40 - $50 case cost when I can't recoup that disbursement when compared to a raw equivalent? It's just plain ol' dumb and tossing money in the sewer. I really really really have to do tremendous research on a book now before I decide to grade. It's gotta be like none on census, rare book, and super high grade for me to consider anymore. In the end it makes my life easier not grading books as grading is obviously much more work for me than simply pulling a book out of a long box and sticking a price sticker on it, than the multitude of activities involved with the grading process. I'm just calling this as I see it; as a frequent seller at small shows. Maybe and probably different at large conventions. But I am not paying for a $1200 convention table. Nope nope nope |
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| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 I'll have to dig in my MCS data. I've only ever sold a handful of raw books through MCS but I remember in particular the Star Wars issue with 1st appearance of Thrawn. The raw copy at a lower grade than my other 2 graded copies sold for substantially more - was crazy. Now there is a caveat The raw as it didn't need grading was sold before Thrawn turned a disappointing appearance in whatever the show was he was in and the graded were sold just as turd of a show was streaming - so probably the raw was during the hype and the graded were hurt by Disney management of a dead IP The graded if I remember did go for approximate FMV |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just an observation/rant/venting... People complain about a % difference in realized prices for different grading companies....does it really matter?? why and to whom and when does it matter?? Any book with FMV at less than say $100 is not worth even grading (you can sell for less than FMV and still be ahead for having not paid grading fees). Maybe if you are in business and this is how you pay the bills it matters. How many re-subs are required because of slab "issues" or poor grading standards or heaven forbid someone used CCS pressing - how much time and effort and extra grading/pressing and shipping fees are incurred - is the % difference worth it now? Me - I've been "collecting" since I was a child - still have issues my mom sent to me rolled up in a tube at summer camp when I was like 8 to 11'ish Economic theory is all my books - are 'worthless' whatever I paid (mostly cover price) is a sunk cost - the utility of the book has been used - I've read it and loved and cherished it - it is now worthless sitting in a box. ANY amount I sell it for is gain - if I sell it for less than cover price (never mind FMV) it is still a gain (I would now have actual cash in my hand , that has utility, vs nothing ,no utility, in a box) - some may say, but, but, but it is worth what FMV is - is is though??...while sitting in a box, can you take that box and pay your bills with it?... it's only 'worth' what you actually get for it... Or are these Shrodingers Comics - worth nothing and everything (alive and dead at the same time??) As long as I make back grading and shipping fees all else is 'profit' Then you get the debate on did I get 'enough' profit...so what's enough? If I hand my books over at a convention I save shipping, if I use promos I save fees - if MCS picks up from CBCS I again save shipping - these are not insignificant charges (if I sell though MCS their fees are less than some other sales channels too!) - what's the % difference now when I take those savings into account.... If I leave my MCS sales as a credit to buy another book I save a % on my purchase - if I build a credit over time I make 10% or more because my currency is losing value to the USD so my USD credit is gaining value...what's the % difference now? idk...I think % differences while real are not as big a deal as people try to make them out to be - unless this is a primary income activity where loss of a few % with a higher cost base can become death by 1000 cuts. If you are just a small fish collector does a couple % matter. Now - I've never sold an individual issue for more than $1k - for 'big' or 'rare' books is the difference there too? - I've not experienced it in the range I play in and I've been happy whatever was required to get the 'keys' I was after - Hulk 181 in 7.0 might be my most expensive purchase - although not my most 'valuable' book....are there people who would pass on their desired grade of AF15 because it was CBCS instead of CGC or would only pay less - or are those differences due to the natural fluctuations of how auctions work |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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DoorCntyComicColl private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I understand folks want to show the new PSA slabs but what puzzles me is why anyone would slab an X-Men #300 graded at 9.4??? People... that FMV wouldn't cover submission/shipping costs!!! And lets not get into the discussion you want to have this in your collection because in 10-20-30 years from now (assuming PSA is still around) you may end up selling it and you will be kicking yourself not coughing up the extra $10-$20 getting a raw copy that is a potential 9.8... I don't understand the logic... Quote: Originally Posted by SpiderTim Agree 100% |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics yo fire!!  |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Is PSA going to have to make their own storage box just their slab can fit in it?? if that's the case;( pun intended) lame! |
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| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||