CGC loses lawsuit21015
 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There had been a lawsuit against CGC by two paper conservationists, Matt and Emily Myers. They had restored comics with techniques that CGC couldn't figure out, so CGC had essentially trashed them, saying their restored covers must be color copies, called them "frankenbooks", etc. Turns out, the Myers just do next-level restoration that is light years ahead of CGC and their in-house group, CCS. The suit was against Heritage (who refused to sell books the Myers had worked on) and CGC who trashed their reputation. Heritage settled, but the Myers refused to settle with CGC, and after years of back and forth wrangling, finally got them in the courtroom and won, plus they got punitive damages on top of everything. Once the court publishes the verdict, I'll share more, including detailed pics and videos of their work. The Myers took my purple FF1 4.5 to a purple 9.4 -- their work is incredible and the community deserves to know there's a better way of doing this stuff. The ironic thing, is that many of the restored books that other people worked on (including people who now work for CGC) DID use pieces of color copies. And the Myers never did. |
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 Collector
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PhilCoulson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| VERY interesting! Please provide follow up. BTW, do have before & after photos of your FF1 that you'd be willing to share? |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What CGC could never figure out, was the way the Myers do color touch. Other restorationists will use a brush and slather paint on the cover. If it's orange, they paint orange. If it's blue, they paint blue. But the Myers would use a microscope and recreate the dot pattern, dot-by-dot, using a 3 filament brush. They'd even use a single filament and put a microscopic dot of white on a printing dot, to simulate cover wear. This isn't their work, just an example of 4-color (CMYK) printing, so you can see the dot pattern. Instead of taking 3 hours and blanket painting it, the Myers would take 30 hours and recreate the dot pattern, by hand.  |
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 Forum Crier
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Where do I get in line to get a book worked on? | ||
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PhilCoulson I do  Plus I have videos and pics of their work on a Superman 1. They've given me permission to share. I shared some on the CGC boards and the thread was immediately deleted and all previous mentions of the Myers and their work has been scrubbed. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @OGJackster I've asked if they're going to get back in the biz. They're unsure, mainly because their reputation had been trashed, especially by a bunch of dealers who were CGC loyalists. But even if they don't get back in the game, I'm sure other people, like Kenny Sanderson, will be adopting their techniques. | ||
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 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm on their side of this; cgc's supposed restoration detection experts should have picked up on this since they were essentially the fiirst to do it. Good on them for not giving up the fight. |
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Sounds like they were doing real actual, legitimate, professional document restoration; what jerks. | ||
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess the part I'm confused about is I was under the impression that full disclosure and transparency was a hallmark of the restoration business. Were they refusing to disclose their process to CGC, or maybe CGC was just unwilling to accept that their process was getting the results they were seeing? | ||
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia has to be that CGC was unwilling to accept the results - In no world do I see where they should have to disclose their process to a group who could then copy it....poorly if it was CCS...maybe with NDA agreements and then sue them if they later start using your process but by then it's too late..your intellectual property is gone. |
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 Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is very interesting. I can't wait to hear more and the before and after pictures of your FF#1 and any video you might have. | ||
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 Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC has removed all historic threads about the lawsuite including their own original announcement but their announcement still available on non-CGC forums where they are not able to remove https://the-comic-book-forum.boards.net/thread/593/investment-grade-matthew-meyers-lawsuit |
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 Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad Great - can you post them here? |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here's the official news. The Meyers had someone there solely looking for appellate issues, and they said they were clean. I don't see much coming of an appeal. |
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 I haven't aired it out. It's part of the provenance.
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Galen130 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You mean CGC gets another black eye?! Oh the humanity…the horror!!! Good for Matt and Emily, even though I don’t have comics restored and know very little about restoration. CGC can pound sand.    |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics It's my understanding that Matt Nelson couldn't figure it out, and said that the Myers needed to tell him everything, which they were unwilling to do since CGC has CCS, their own in-house restoration service. So, the Myers weren't excited to share their techniques with their competition. Nelson trashed the Myers to Heritage, who then refused to sell their books. He also trashed them to certain dealers and CGC let the discussion catch fire on their forum, continuing the spread of disinformation and reputational damage. I know for a fact, that CGC (with Nelson as lead grader) then began grading the Myers books extra harsh. My AF15 was not trimmed, as graded by CGC, but then came back with 3 sides trimmed. That kind of thing. So there are a lot of books out there that the Myers worked on that deserve an honest regrade. Honestly, I like Matt Nelson a lot. I don't think there was a lot of malice, perhaps more frustration and confusion in his commentary. But his words and the way CGC and Heritage behaved, definitely hurt the Myers business and hurt the value of their books. |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This escalated to the point it did simply because of the actual or perceived conflict of interest. A grading company that grades restored books and also does the restoration is a recipe for trouble. | ||
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Also a grading company founded by the owner of an auction house (Heritage) is a conflict as well. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
This is from Law.com, which is behind a paywall.   |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MatterEaterLad FYI...that video might get deleted by the Mods. | ||
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I hope not. I am posting these with permission from the Myers. |
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 I blame the forum gremlins.
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have no comment other than remarking that the title of this thread made me happy. | ||
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I haven't aired it out. It's part of the provenance.
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Galen130 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @figment Ditto…hence my previous ‘pound sand’ comment to CGC. 🤣🤣🤣 | ||
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 Moderator
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The_Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| From the CBCS ToU: *Discussing Alteration Techniques: Users may not share or otherwise discuss techniques for altering comics; including, but not limited to, restoration, pressing, cleaning, taping, or any other techniques that could result in temporary or permanent damage to a comic book. CBCS is in no way liable for any damage resulting from a user performing any technique they read or saw on the CBCS forum |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by The_Watcher Wow, that's kinda tragic. These new techniques will surely get deleted from CGC's site, but also from their competitor's? Way to impede progress there. I understand the legalities. Though it comes across like the Fantastic Four cartoon where they replaced the Human Torch with Herbie the Robot. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad That was a rights issue related to the Human Torch...not the fear that kids would light themselves on fire. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Ahhhh...you are correct. I've believed the urban myth all these years. |
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I blame the forum gremlins.
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Johnny Storm's Nightmare!  |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by figment Well played. |
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLadwho the hell left rocket fuel laying around? That shit ain’t cheap. |
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