CGC knowingly damaging books?20972
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Holy cow, nice book Dave. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros Thanks! |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Thanks! |
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 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave I think this is a pretty solid summary of why the industry won't change. People find the action appalling but they can get a good deal and it didn't affect too many of their books, so they'll stick it out. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk You misread or misunderstood my post(s) if that is your conclusion. The impact on my submission was zero. Nada. Zilch. My submission was made prior to reading/seeing any issues even existed. I took direct action with CGC and documented their assurance that my books weren’t at risk. In fact I told them if there was a risk of damage from an ongoing issue that I instead request my books returned to me unopened. The key is also in the title of this thread “knowingly”… and it was a question. As for what my results tell me… well, I was pretty clear about that too. A sample of 40 books across price tiers is pretty representative. Also, others I discussed this with also had no recent issues. This applies to the eras of books I collect (generally no moderns). Finally, unlike people submitting books back for pressing or mechanical error reslabbing, my next steps if they damaged my high value books after my exchange (and written assurance) would have been legal. If there is a widespread, systemic issue and CGC was lying to induce submissions, that exposes them to a viable class action lawsuit. Viable because the dollar amounts at stake would be high and communication of no issues could be considered fraud (in the inducement). This is a hypothetical because I experienced no issues or problems myself. So for me, case closed. |
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 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I get what you're saying Dave, you did the right. I'm not submitting anything to them and probably won't ever again. I have one book definitely affected going to here or keeping it raw for the time being. Other books that are affected by the bend are coming to cbcs when I can get them here. It never crossed my mind to resubmit them; the chance that it wouldn't be rectified was too great. On the other hand, I'm glad you're books were clean. |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The optics to me are....CGC is circus. There have been far too many issues and scandals that strike at the core of their services...grading, authenticating and encapsulating. They are no longer (and haven't been for a while) a collectibles guarantee company in the service of their clients....they are now a company in the collectibles industry in the service of shareholders. I understand all 3rd party graders are businesses that have to satisfy shareholders but, to me, CBCS is the only company that appears to consider its clients when making decisions...for the most part anyway. CGC doesn't seem to care at all what their clients think..Zero. Nada. Zilch.....problem after problem surfaces and is made known and CGC gives its clients the finger....everytime. I get a feeling that the powers that be at CGC have every intention of driving this company into the ground....squeezing every last penny out of it. There appears to be zero investment into this company on improvement.....the powers that be appear to be here for the short term. Squeeze every cent they can out of CGC and when it ultimately dies...kick the husk to the curb. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC Except… the books I got back were all flat and no issues in the holders. So did they respond and adjust? Only respond / adjust for my submission (doubtful). Is it luck? Well, my only CGC graded book from earlier this year showed a mild bend. Mild is key - it was not noticeable until being generally aware of a potential issue and it did not damage to a 9.8 grade book with a black cover (would be noticeable). But still - unlucky or representative at 1 out of 1 impacted. Then my later submission, subbed in July but processed in August. 40 books across a range of tiers though all were Bronze or Silver Age. Zero issues. Not even a mild bend… completely flat in the holder as they should be. So was it luck or did they respond and address an issue? Could they have been more forthright? Yes. Could they generally be less slimy / manipulative in their characterization of issues and problems. In my view, yes. But this is a viewed informed by forum interactions and the experience of others. Their customer service in terms of responsiveness and even willingness to put stuff in writing (surprisingly) - is actually quite good. At least the customer-facing staff. Not sure about the back-end and clearly they have many, many process failures. I am not naive to how big companies operate. That said, to struggle with massive, unanticipated growth is not unexpected. I raised this a couple years ago and that those volumes - and the response - are root cause to what we see. Including with CBCS. My hope is we have multiple competitive offerings. I am hoping CBCS makes the right tactical and strategic moves to capitalize on CGC weakness… because better balance in competition is also good for customers… but as a customer, I act based on rational and not emotional factors. |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's kinda ironic that the situation is so bad there, that we are no longer even talking about CGC grading accuracy. Which to me, has been 33% accurate, 33% too high, 33% too low forever. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave I wasn't referring to you but I did borrow your "Zero. Nada. Zilch" phrase....I liked that. My post was more of a general feeling and not specific to any posts here. My post is more of a response to a lot of collectors....YouTubers that publically knock CBCS for no valid reasons really but yet defend CGC to end despite the rediculous situations they put themselves in. I have a close friend who does this and I just don't understand logically how someone can do that and keep a straight face. I'm happy your books came back flat...all of them...its just weird we have to celebrate flat book returns from cgc...I don't mean yours in particular but in general..."yay! cgc corrected this problem....books came back flat!" Right! that's exactly how the books are supposed to come back...flat. It reminds me of this...Chris Rock might as well be talking about cgc here. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC I think I remember this whole special and I laughed damn ass of lmao I think this is bigger and blacker . |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| On a serious , I don't want the cgc to fail, regardless ifninuse them again or not?probably not) . I don't want any grading company to fail for that matter because it's good for the hobby. But, if the cgc doesn't want the psa to stomp them into the earth; then it's time to wake up from whatever delusional fantasy you have. |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave No, I'm pretty sure I understood it. Despite CGC having a solid history of messing things up, including a previous slab that mangled books (the creepengine), people keep sending them books because they get a deal or they sell better. Now, they have another issue and are again damaging books. You were fortunate that your books weren't affected, and seem to think it won't happen again (or at least think you'll be reimbursed when it does), so you're going to keep sending them books. That's the idea, right? |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk No. They are a company that makes mistakes like all companies. The creep engine slab - a problem that was rectified. Newton’s Rings, an issue that was well-known but cosmetic. The other recent “scandals” - generally noise and what happens with exceptional growing pains during an unanticipated volume surge during a global pandemic… well-handled? Not always, but CBCS has had its own issues… sometimes major and when accounting for differences in volumes, sometimes worse. Do you avoid buying Ford cars? GM cars? Toyota? All have had major issues. What would be appalling is if the CGC lied to me (again, direct evidence) and mangled my books based on a known and confirmed issue. In my case they said it was addressed and the result confirmed this. Of course it is possible that they continue to mangle modern books. I don’t know with certainty the timeline of “realization” to “remedy” and if the remedy was ever identified and implemented there. As for “thinking I’ll be reimbursed” if my books had been damaged in this latest submission. I was clear that I would make it a legal matter. Why? Because as an individual complaining (or even boycotting as you think the solution should be) I have little power against a large corporation. But if there was a deeper issue than an “error” or process failure - that is, if they were lying about a known issue - there is collective action through a well-established mechanism. A class action suit. If someone is seeing a different outcome with their modern submissions then it is on them to pursue that course of action. I am transparent here. I raised and highlighted the issue on this forum (and also documented the basics on the CGC forum). I documented my exchange with CGC so that if I was directly impacted (where I’d have legal standing) there would be evidence to support a claim. I then updated everyone with my results - and they happened to be uneventful. If you think my approach someone enables the CGC to behave as they do… then I cannot help make you understand why you’re so far off the mark. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Off topic here, I'm still laughing about the banana ad that cbcs put out lol. No monkey business. | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If there was ever a reason not to use the cgc, this is it. It's good knowing that some folks books are safe but can't Gaurntee it's all the books. | ||
| Post 416 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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TheShocker private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave a little off topic but you mentioned this and I had to answer. I've only dealt in Toyota and Hondas due to seing my dad constantly in garage with his Chevy and my big brother having constant transmission problems on his Ford F-150.I have 98 Honda civic, 2004 Toyota Tacoma, 2009 Honda Civic All running with no major issues. If I buy a car and it has transmission, Engine, or alot of "little issues" I would do my research. If it was due to bad Engine, transmission design. My nephew's 2014 Sunaru WRX ST1, his piston blew out due to a known issue with that 2.5L boxer engine. Got it repaired under warranty and sold it right away. He never went back to subaru. My brother in law got a 2018 Subaru WRX, currently at 70k miles and has a head gasket leak, transmission fluid leaks to the point where he's had it sitting for about 8 months now. I would not go back to any of those lol. But I guess I'm unique in that dept. Lol | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have enough headaches in life. In fact, as I've gotten older my propensity to deal with b.s. is pretty darn low. That goes for cars, contractors, comic grading, dealers, online stores, food, electronics, services ... essentially everything. If someone or some entity makes a mistake and they correct it - great! A couple more - ok. But when and if it becomes systemic where I'm now aggravated, they're done. Fini. Sayonara. And with a fitting shit covered cherry on top as I recently did to Golden Apple. I'm just not going to deal with persistent issues from anything anymore. And that's a period |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Yep yep . Here, here  |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It used to be we might be anxious when a submission came back from cgc on the grades we get...hopefully we don't get hammered on grade too much.....now we're anxious on getting our books back undamaged. |
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| Post 420 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by TheShocker a little chuckle I have when car reliability is brought up is old advertising....notice how the "have you driven a Ford lately" went away...sure it had nothing to do with the constant recalls... |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by TheShocker I’ve passed on brands after bad experiences. Doesn’t mean it’s entirely rational. It is also driven by available alternatives and matters of degree (of those bad experiences). Also, I’ve been very pleased with my Toyota ownership… an FJ cruiser. That said, Toyota paid significant fines and recalled millions of vehicles relating to safety issues. Unintended acceleration issues - if you recall. Whether it was as bad as some claimed (arguable but I won’t go into details) is besides the point. Huge reputation hit and it related to safety… I would still buy a Toyota. Ford had one of the biggest (if not biggest) product safety scandals. This was truly appalling (Ford Pinto)… and the list goes on (VW dieselgate, etc). I’d like to see all those people avoiding car companies due to real, documented, major problems… I assume they commute by bicycle. |
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| Post 422 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'd fly into work with my own personal Nazgul | ||
| Post 423 • IP flag post | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Since we're talking about walking away from companies that did us dirty, here's an example; egs! The presentation of the slab was lousy and after a few books came back unsatisfactory; I moved on. I'll pay the extra for cbcs which isn't that much more. Their slab isn't all that great anyway. |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Who's to say that the newly slabbed books won't develop bends over time? The creep engine books looked fine when they first rolled off the assembly line. I'm steering clear of the new stuff. No sense in borrowing trouble, or paying for it. |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC just made a statement about bananagate... "We have seen reports that some of the soft-plastic wells used inside of the CGC holder exhibit a curve when viewed from the side. After learning of this, we conducted an extensive review and found that the smallest well size, which is used for the thinnest comic books, is more pliable than other wells and, in some cases, will exhibit a slight curve. Importantly, this curve does not cause any damage to the comic book, and it does not affect the grade in any way. The angle of bend required to create a stress line simply cannot be done within the CGC holder. In addition, very high grade comic books can still exhibit minimal stress lines according to CGC’s official grading standards. We do not consider this slight curve to be a mechanical error that requires reholdering. Still, we are always listening and want to serve our customers the best way we can. We have found that our next-largest well size does not exhibit this slight curve and have started to use that well in lieu of our smallest size. We appreciate all of the feedback from our community, and we are grateful to be the hobby’s first choice for grading for nearly 25 years. Many of us are collectors too, and we care deeply about the services that we provide. If you have any comments, questions or concerns, please write to us at Service@CGCcomics.com or call or text us at +1-855-GRADE10." |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson I smell a load of crap | ||
| Post 427 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, it was indeed addressed as evidenced by the books I received back (which sit perfectly flat and are not subject to risk of future magical bending). | ||
| Post 428 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215 Yeah, the spin doctors worked overtime on that statement. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I still don't belive it's right. Christ, pgx or egs isn't doing that and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were. | ||
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