CGC knowingly damaging books?20972
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Check out a thread on the CGC forum. There is an apparent issue with CGC encapsulation. If ever there was a real issue that could sink them, this is it. They may be knowingly damaging books through their half-assed attempt of making their cases more tamper evident/resistant. This is a real issue, because they apparently were aware for weeks / months and are still (again, apparently) using this defective method to encapsulate books. This isn’t a display issue (newton’s rings) or a latent issue (creep engine). This is a known, damaging, defective process that they appear to continue to use despite evidence of damage to customer books. I say “apparent” for the above - but I do have direct evidence of the issue. The apparent is more to do with whether they are or have actually addressed the problem. I have only one 2024 graded book. It has the inner well warp problem. I have (unfortunately) sent a bunch of books, including very high grade, very high value, books in for grading. Only the second batch to them in a couple years… I may call and have them refund / return rather than process if this issue is not addressed. |
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 Collector
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JHumble private msg quote post Address this user | |
| No link to the thread? | ||
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 Collector
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Jgwalters100 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nah they will just give the damaged books 10's and call it a day. | ||
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I no longer have faith in the common sense of the average collector to give a sh!t about all of CGC's follies. There's been so many CGC f@#k ups that their dominance in this field should have been impacted and widdled down but there's no evidence of that. As long as the perception that CGC sells for more exists, they will forever be on top regardless of their stupidities. | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| here you go @JHumble | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
CGC response: |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC That is not really the latest response… it is becoming apparent that perhaps they are still creating these problems… not just a batch that slipped through. Remains to be seen… I have a submission in and will definitely be on the phone with them on Monday. Depending on how that goes, may be on the phone with a lawyer later that day lol. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave I wasn't sure if it was determined that this was a widespread problem...it wouldn't surprise me but I thought it was reserved to an identified batch. Keep us informed in what you discover. |
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 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This comes right in step with their " viva la vintage " special. Not a good look. |
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 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Good call. Better to be aggressive now, before they have a chance to slab and mangle your books. I wonder if they'll put the submission on hold until they solve the problem or send them back to you unslabbed at your cost. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I can assure you it will be at their cost. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| lol!! I got a 1 week vacation over there for replying to someone who posted that CGC has no viable competition.....no biggie....prior to today, I don't even remember the last time I posted there. | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Sounds like I need to check the grade date of every slab I may be interested or just not buy any of their slabs to be safe. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC is shit....seriously....one problem after another after another. | ||
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave I have two books there now; should I be concerned? |
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HAmistoso private msg quote post Address this user | |
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 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215 I would be especially if they are expensive, high-grade books. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 Not expensive but possibly high grade. One is for the JSA service.  |
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215 I wouldn't. You can start a thread a month from now about how you've resubbed them to CBCS. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson Yeah I would do that. Lol |
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 I do what I can.
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TheShocker private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I've been to about 4 cons this year 3 of the four CGC booth was empty all 3 days I passed by.they had 3 to 4 reps just chillin. The one where they had foot traffic was Texas specially when it was time for Frank Miller.30 min before he came CGC set up shop right next to the line but I heard thats because FMs agent is cool with someone at CGC or something along that line. I still submitted mine at CBCS and spoke to someone who was on the fence. Told em my honest opinion and someone behind me joined in and agreed so dude ran over, got his paperwork done. This has been my personal experience so far. The company is hurting but idk how much |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They've been on a "new F up every 2 months" trend for quite some time. So I give them credit for their impeccable timing. It's just about 2 months |
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 Doodoo doodoo! Mind blowing stuff, right?
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Caffeine_Kid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jgwalters100 LOL |
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Will this affect the graded invisible comics? | ||
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 Collector
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sborock_ComicLink private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Remember when we were about less than year(?) in at CBCS and we found out that the inner wells the manufacturer shipped to us were not what we ordered and could/would damage the books??? Some did, but we made it right by the submitters and we IMMEDIATLY STOPPED the slabbing process and told the hobby in as many places as we could, so that word would get around fast, the second we found out. It really hurt us financially, big time, but we cared more about our submitter's comics and our hobby, as well as our hard-earned reputations. Most importantly...it was the right thing to do! OUR HOBBY SHOULD NOT BE A BIG GRAB FOR MONEY! I am hopeful that CGC will do/did the right thing as there are so many "real" hobbyists working there that I know would not be happy with the situation and would speak up, if the problem is not already fixed. I truly hope it is! I have a great relationship with both companies, and the great friends I have that I have worked with, even trained, at them. I only helped create these companies for the safety and growth of our great hobby as well as all my friends in it! Mark Haspel, Paul Litch and I, never saw the things certification, not grading, would turn into. Some good and some bad.  As to deleting any posts about CBCS on their boards (EXCEPT selling or trading them on there), I have always thought that was a bit was petty, because they do let people criticize CBCS and don't remove those posts. And there should be no reason to be scared of those posts, if they think or feel that they are much better than CBCS. That said, it's their boards, they can do what they want. I know that I did that while we set up the original "guidelines" for this forum. We let people show off and even be pro-CGC (JESSE WAS THE BEST MODERATOR!!!  )I know that the 1st 3 years scared the heck out of CGC, as we were gang busters at that point, before Beckett because my partner and his "investors" did not have the money I was told they did! I even told him that it took 5 years for CGC to make a single dollar. Those 3 years, we were taking away a lot of business from CGC as well. Heck, after the 1st few months after opening, Comiclink and HA (the only "real" auction houses for comics and OA IMHO. Though the reason I joined CL and did not go back to my friends and family at HA is that I truly believe you get the best bang for your buck and get better attention and placement from your consignment directors at CL) started vying for our graded comics because we were grading some of the BEST books coming to market. They were never vying for pgx, halo and all the other companies that were thieves, not true hobbyists, inept, sold grades, graded their own books to sell, etc.... Great companies need to be supported, as monopolies suck. That said, perception is everything. I really wish that there were 3 legit companies, not only 2. That would be great for all of us! When we started our forum, from the beginning, we wanted to keep all of us able to share and enjoy what the loved, whether CGC or CBCS. Buy the book, not the label and not because it's CBCS or CGC. If you know what you are looking at and not a novice, that would be great for all. Please don't get me started about 9.9 pre-screens or label chasers..... Sorry, once again, for the rant! Happy collecting everyone!  Have a most wonderful Sunday!   |
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Collector
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sborock_ComicLink private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics What a horrible idea that was! So bad for our hobby, especially for the newer collectors who bought into that hype!  |
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I hope auction houses are aware of this issue and are thoroughly inspecting any CGC slabs that have been graded in 2024 so they can remove them from their site if necessary. | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders That’s what they need to do. The question is whether they need to inspect for damage or inspect for the issue, and what steps for either. My book, for instance, has zero spine damage. No ticks, color breaking or otherwise, no spine stress indicated. If you view the book head-on, it looks like a perfect 9.8 and there would be no concern. If you look from the side (edge-on) there is a gentle bend in the inner well. In the case of my book this is a “half bend”… it start centered front to back on the top and then ends on one side (front to back) on bottom. This may explain the lack of spine damage, combined with the book’s dimensions. Other images on the CGC forum show inner well bowed (so the well sits closer to front on top, bows out to back of case in middle, then to the front again on the bottom). Some of these books appear to have damage clearly not commensurate to their grades. Is it due to book dimensions? Case-by-case differences in how they’re assembled? Something else? In my case I am “okay-ish” with the book I have in-hand. Not happy - and I will get this corrected - but no clear urgency based on what I can see. My outrage and greater concern is with my submission. Sent out because - quite frankly the vintage sale was compelling. Was the trigger for having some high value, high grade books sent to grade as well… these books are important enough that I’m not okay with “damage then correct” approach… or rolling the dice on outcome. We are in many ways stewards of these old books and getting “the wrong grade” or some Newton’s rings are not impacting that stewardship. Damaging the books, however, is different. That is shameful and to do so knowingly, will make the CGC liable for damages. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What gives me some comfort is that I meticulously photograph all high value books pre-submission. Multiple angles and also make a video. If things slip - and somehow damage occurs, it is well documented. It is unfortunate that the level of trust and reliability is so poor. |
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