CGC knowingly damaging books?20972
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here is what my one “impacted” book looks like. This is the book that I saw had the inner well start on one side and end at the other side (eg front to back) and with a barely perceptible curve. This is the spine view. A perfect 9.8 early BA book with a black cover and no spine ticks. I decided there is zero issue with this book and its encapsulation and zero reason to reslab it. While there is a barely noticeable curve, it is deceiving at first glance because the book is “angled” in the slab. But the spine itself is virtually perfectly straight. I drew a line across so you can see the consistency in the gap between the drawn line and the book’s spine. Some books are truly bowed - mine isn’t. Of a 40 book submission none show any issues. If I look at old slabs, some show the same front to back angled encapsulation (going back at least to 2007). At quick glance, someone may call them banana books. Some I am sure also have this harmless / nearly imperceptible curvature… and since people are looking for it, they will see it.  |
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| Post 726 • IP flag post | ||
 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave would we assume the slight curve you show is mechanical error or the condition of the book itself? | ||
| Post 727 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash Well, there is virtually no curvature at all. My estimate is that the amount of deviation along the spine (from perfectly straight) is about 1mm. The angle of the encapsulation makes it appear like a touch more than that, but the drawn line demonstrates it’s an optical illusion. So I cannot say if the inner well curved the book that amount or vice versa. Here is a bowed book from the CGC forum with another line drawn. It appears to be about 5mm of deviation and has a warp where the book’s inner well sits on the same side of the case but then bends in the middle to the opposite side of the case. When I look at old slabs the inner wells seem to sit flat (on one side, no angling) except for one from 2007… where it has the issue of being angled (but, again, no meaningful curve of the book itself). It seems the recently slabbed books are not fitting correctly or were being pinched at each end (and compressed) or settling on an angle in less severe cases; the latter does not result in a bent inner well. I point this out because the angled encapsulation is a deviation from the norm and unless inspected closely, could look like a “half bend”… Again, of 41 books graded this year, only one exhibits even this angled issue for me. The rest lay properly flat (top and bottom inner well edges on the same side of the slab). I have another 44x series book on its way to me and I am not expecting any bowing on that either (PA era book)… but I will take a look once received. For those receiving bowed books, I am curious it any older vintages are exhibiting an actual curve or merely sitting angled in the slab… or something else. An example of a bowed book:  |
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| Post 728 • IP flag post | ||
 How do I know this? Because I've done it myself.
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
It’s hard to capture the extent of what is going on in the slab in a picture, but these are the two bowed books I got back from the Jim Lee signing. The bottom of both books are bowed.   |
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| Post 729 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| On the two I've had, the top and bottom of the inner well touch the inside of the front of the slab while the middle dips down and touches the inside bottom potion of the slab. When compared to an inner well that is flat, it is very, very obvious. If the term banana slabs hadn't already been used, I'd call them boomerang slabs. They keep making their way back to the cgc for reholder time and time again. |
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| Post 730 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Thanks for the images. That really is unfortunate. I just received a platinum age book that is also a 44x. No issue (image below). That said, I think CGC screwed up big time. They need their modern business to succeed in this tough market - and even if the vintage books are less impacted (frequency and severity) their response of do-nothing is utter bullshit. I was prepared to litigate if my submission came back damaged. I hinted the same on the CGC board and was hoping someone with deep pockets - that was also harmed (and therefore has standing) would step-up. You would think someone, somewhere has documented damage to a six figure book… or perhaps the CGC is being very tactical (if amoral and shortsighted) and using the problematic inventory on lower value books? A class action suit is also possible, though it will limit the type of damages that can be sought (since remedy needs to satisfy typical damages). For people seeking reholders and corrective action (pressing) this remedy could be painful for CGC (because of the sheer numbers and cost) but inadequate for many individuals that have significant and unique damages. This is why I really was hoping that someone would step up…  |
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| Post 731 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson Yup...that's what I was calling them when I first heard about this....Boomerang slabs....the problem that keeps coming back. CGC is trash....rubbish product. |
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| Post 732 • IP flag post | ||
 I blame the forum gremlins.
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
3806 As the good @DrWatson said it is very, very obvious. |
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| Post 733 • IP flag post | ||
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How do I know this? Because I've done it myself.
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave totally agree. I'm a very small fish in a very large pond over there. Granted, they have potentially damaged some high value keys of mine, but in terms of value -- while it's a lot to me -- isn't much in comparison to what they likely see on a daily basis. A couple thousand is nothing compared to what I'm sure dealers or larger players submit. A class action is definitely a way to go, but getting the right lawyers and the right class plaintiff is not an easy process. In the end, I think I'm lucky compared to others I've seen on the forum over there because I believe the damage can be pressed out -- I'll know more in the next few months as my CBCS submissions start coming back. |
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| Post 734 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by figment What's the grade date of your book? |
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| Post 735 • IP flag post | ||
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I blame the forum gremlins.
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson 5/17/2021 |
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| Post 736 • IP flag post | ||
 I have not set up at a con since 2029.
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PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatsonQuote: Originally Posted by DrWatsonQuote: Originally Posted by DrWatsonQuote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Anyone who says books with baba bends will retain the grade they were originally assigned is either lying or has no idea how to grade comics. |
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| Post 737 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They may not know how to grade, but I'll bet your arse they know how to use the quote function. In addition, I did say that it would have to be pressed in order to potentially retain its given grade. |
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| Post 738 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I'm seeing quadruple I think I'm seeing quadruple I think I'm seeing quadruple I think I'm seeing quadruple |
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| Post 739 • IP flag post | ||
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How do I know this? Because I've done it myself.
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson I'm pretty confident Steve Ricketts and his crew will be able to press my books in order to retain the grades. Like I said in prior posts, I think I was lucky in that regard, at least. I didn't see any spine tics or other noticeable damage beyond the bending. | ||
| Post 740 • IP flag post | ||
 No rust here...
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Those dadgum bananas are lookin' mighty expensive. Think I will stick with my cherries...  |
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| Post 741 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Banana books in boomerang slabs. It makes me sad to think of all those high grade Mark's books that will end up being banana books in boomerang slabs. To have survived all these years in high grade just to be turned into accessories for Carmen Miranda at the hands of the cgc. |
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| Post 742 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a McNugget guzzler.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I thought about Marks books on this as well @DrWatson. I like the excuse of a credit on your cgc order so I used them. | ||
| Post 743 • IP flag post | ||
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
The only book that has any monkey business in a CGC slab right now |
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| Post 744 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I had my membership auto renew as I forgot to cancel it. It expires July 17th 2025. I think it will be best for me to wait as close to my experation date to send the $150. worth of credit that came with it. I wonder if they offer refunds. | ||
| Post 745 • IP flag post | ||
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips They’d probably credit your account  |
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| Post 746 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips maybe you'll get lucky and there will be a signature event that only they offer to use up your credit on |
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| Post 747 • IP flag post | ||