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CGC Partner Points Out CGC/CBCS Value Differences20872

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
Key Collector Comics, via CGC Partner Advertising email, is providing the CGC Monthly Market Analysis. It reports the Top Five keys of the month. At the bottom of each bullet point list, Key posts the difference in $$$ and % between CGC copies and CBCS copies.

I converted the email message to a pdf, and linked it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w-OkjRnBhj22SGeuXOJnxoWapmkLAePp_g2dSiuYxcc/edit?usp=drive_link

I realize that we are aware of a value difference. Now there is a monthly reminder.

I see that that the bullet points themselves didn't "translate" well to the pdf, but the text is there in the form of a list of attributes for each of the 5 comics.
Post 1 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Only a moron would pay more for a book where all things are equal except the grading company is the cgc.

For me, there are so many facets to consider when purchasing a book; color, cut, wrap, and to a lesser degree, page quality.

I can't imagine buying a book based on label information alone. Comic books are a visual medium. The most important aspect is eye appeal.

It boggles the mind.
Post 2 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
It seems that, for so many, the whole "buy the book not the grade (or, in this case, the GRADER) just isn't a thing. I hate that but it is what it is.

To make matters worse, even with the positive response to CBCS' new case and label, CBCS' media and advertising presence appears to have DECREASED lately instead of increasing like one might expect.

For me it's frustrating as I'm sure it is with some of you out there in forum-land. Not because I need any kind of positive reinforcement regarding CBCS slabs but because, at some point in the next decade as I near retirement, I'll probably sell my more expensive books and I hate the thought of getting less for really nice books just because they are in a CBCS case.

At some point, I may be forced to crack the books I sell, have them graded by CGC, and then sell them. I'd really rather not have to do that.
Post 3 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Only a moron would pay more for a book where all things are equal except the grading company is the cgc.

For me, there are so many facets to consider when purchasing a book; color, cut, wrap, and to a lesser degree, page quality.

I can't imagine buying a book based on label information alone. Comic books are a visual medium. The most important aspect is eye appeal.

It boggles the mind.


Yes it does.
Post 4 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@DrWatson I agree 100%.

I don't understand this price diffetence at all.

Do you think it's possible for a collector to be aware of CGC but not be aware at all of CBCS?

I know some collectors don't like CBCS (like some don't like CGC) but is it possible that these collectors look at CBCS in the same way most of us look at PGX?

I prefer CBCS to CGC but I do recognize that CGC is way superior to PGX... isn't this generally understood by virtually 100% of the collecting community....CGC & CBCS are relatively equal and PGX...is PGX.

The price difference is illogical and irrational.
Post 5 IP   flag post
I'm not a plagiarist. I'm also not illiterate. drmccoy74 private msg quote post Address this user
You could grade your keepers CBCS and your books to sell CGC I suppose. Personally I buy both online. In person I buy mostly raw and keep raw.
Post 6 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmccoy74
You could grade your keepers CBCS and your books to sell CGC I suppose. Personally I buy both online. In person I buy mostly raw and keep raw.

I buy both online, too, although I'm always on the lookout for CBCS books. Unfortunately, the type of books I tend to go after (generally high grade 50s through 70s) just don't show up in CBCS cases very often.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Suck it up, buttercup!! KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmccoy74
You could grade your keepers CBCS and your books to sell CGC I suppose. Personally I buy both online. In person I buy mostly raw and keep raw.


The problem with this is that eventually keepers become sellers for our survivors...I would like them to get as much as they can. I figure I have 20 more years before I seriously need to consider this eventuality...but if it continues a crack and regrade may be in the cards...
Post 8 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
This is why I 90% of the time use CGC.
I don't keep this plastic stuff; so whatever brings me more value is who I will use.
I recognize it's lunacy and pure stupidity and moronic; but the $$$ don't lie and is all that matters to me.

All that KC is doing is pointing this information out - most of us already know this.
That app and it's creators are &^%*$, but this is not one of the reasons I don't like it/them
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
Back in 2014, Not knowing anything about "graded" comic books, I talked with CGC and CBCS. Everything CGC said I didn't like, where CBCS were nice, friendly and very affordable. I asked around and saw that CGC slabs sold more than CBCS slabs for the same comic book and grade. Then I noticed that a CGC 9.8 had visible flaws where a CBCS 9.8 was simply beautiful and just about perfect. This happened more times than I could count.

In January 2020, I went to the first CBCS EXPO hosted by Steve Borock and fell in love with the company. To date, I've never submitted anything to CGC, only to CBCS and still do. In a way, I'm kinda glad that CBCS slabs sell for less than CGC slabs. This way I can buy more CBCS slabs, fill gaps at a reasonable price.

With all the problems/controversy CGC has had and still has I don't understand why people still use them.

But I know that in time things will change.

The only thing I don't like about CBCS is the label change. Since I started using them back in 2014, I think they've change their label 4 or 5 times and I hate this latest label. The comic book should stand out NOT the label and the serial number is way too small.
Post 10 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC If someone were, let's say sponsored by the cgc, would anyone expect results that were not in the cgc's favor?

Follow the money.

There's a reason GPAnalysis.com doesn't included CBCS sales and I doubt it's because they just don't care to do so.
Post 11 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
@GAC If someone were, let's say sponsored by the cgc, would anyone expect results that were not in the cgc's favor?

Follow the money.

There's a reason GPAnalysis.com doesn't included CBCS sales and i doubt it's because they just don't care to do so.


Sounds like possibly anti-competitive practices.

It'd be nice if CBCS would play "hardball" sometimes....get Beckett to flex some muscle here on behalf of CBCS.
Post 12 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
There's a reason GPAnalysis.com doesn't included CBCS sales and i doubt it's because they just don't care to do so.

Funny you mention them, @DrWatson. I just canceled my GPAnalysis.com subscription today. The main reason was that they refuse to show CBCS prices.
Post 13 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
I am indifferent between CBCS and CGC. If I thought I could get better value from CBCS (nicer book for the $) then I’d choose it.

Perhaps it’s because I’m dealing almost exclusively with GA and SA books (and some early BA) but I don’t see some general, systematic opportunity ripe for the picking. If I did, I’d take advantage of it.
Post 14 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
@GAC If someone were, let's say sponsored by the cgc, would anyone expect results that were not in the cgc's favor?

Follow the money.

There's a reason GPAnalysis.com doesn't included CBCS sales and i doubt it's because they just don't care to do so.


Sounds like possibly anti-competitive practices.

It'd be nice if CBCS would play "hardball" sometimes....get Beckett to flex some muscle here on behalf of CBCS.

I don't think CBCS throwing money into advertising, or whatever, is necessarily the answer. Plus, being number 1 in basically a 2 man team, I don't know, would it really be worth all the expense and effort?

CBCS has come a long way in the few years they been around. The goal was never to overtake the cgc, but to provide a genuine alternative.
Post 15 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
With all the problems/controversy CGC has had and still has I don't understand why people still use them.

But I know that in time things will change.

I don't think so, @Rafel, but I could be wrong and I hope that I am. I just don't see what would happen to make this mindset change even though I don't understand it.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
As we discussed before, this price difference is something that CBCS should lean into, an argument that they should turn on its head. Own it, then kill it:
https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/20428/page/1/sheeple-search-cgc/#25
Post 17 IP   flag post
I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
I have been hearing about the discrepancy in value between CGC and CBCS since CBCS was created (by the same guy that created CGC - Steve Borock). Rarely, if ever, do I see a discount in price on the CBCS slabs that I bid on or purchase. Maybe CGC drek sells for more than CBCS drek, but on GA, SA, and even BA and CA keys and semi-keys, I usually don’t see much difference.
Here’s the one situation where you can almost always see it. If we are talking about a big auction, Heritage, Comic Connect, or Comic Link, and there are two books with the same grade, and one is CGC and the other is CBCS, the CGC book almost always sells for more than the CBCS slab.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
I'm sure it all comes down to the almighty green back. Money talks. I believe things will flip and CBCS will reign supreme. Maybe not today but give it time.

When I'm at conventions and see both CGC and CBCS tables, I check the number of people and what they're submitting.

So far, I've noticed about 2-1 at CGC. I see at CGC more modern comic books and less of the older comic books being submitted.

While at CBCS, it's more older than modern comic books being submitted.

This puzzles me.
Post 19 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaravo
If we are talking about a big auction, Heritage, Comic Connect, or Comic Link, and there are two books with the same grade, and one is CGC and the other is CBCS, the CGC book almost always sells for more than the CBCS slab.

The cgc book is almost always listed first, meaning that it ends first. I've never understood why two books with the same grade are listed in the same auction, regardless of grading company. It's a disservice to at least one book owner, if not both. It splits the bids.
Post 20 IP   flag post
I'm not a plagiarist. I'm also not illiterate. drmccoy74 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaravo
I have been hearing about the discrepancy in value between CGC and CBCS since CBCS was created (by the same guy that created CGC - Steve Borock). Rarely, if ever, do I see a discount in price on the CBCS slabs that I bid on or purchase. Maybe CGC drek sells for more than CBCS drek, but on GA, SA, and even BA and CA keys and semi-keys, I usually don’t see much difference.
Here’s the one situation where you can almost always see it. If we are talking about a big auction, Heritage, Comic Connect, or Comic Link, and there are two books with the same grade, and one is CGC and the other is CBCS, the CGC book almost always sells for more than the CBCS slab.
I notice the same. Usually on a Marvel key that attracts an investor type more than a collector. Something like a Hulk 181 or Amazing Spider-Man 129
Post 21 IP   flag post
I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out. power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user
do I want quality or more hypothetical money
Post 22 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmccoy74
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaravo
I have been hearing about the discrepancy in value between CGC and CBCS since CBCS was created (by the same guy that created CGC - Steve Borock). Rarely, if ever, do I see a discount in price on the CBCS slabs that I bid on or purchase. Maybe CGC drek sells for more than CBCS drek, but on GA, SA, and even BA and CA keys and semi-keys, I usually don’t see much difference.
Here’s the one situation where you can almost always see it. If we are talking about a big auction, Heritage, Comic Connect, or Comic Link, and there are two books with the same grade, and one is CGC and the other is CBCS, the CGC book almost always sells for more than the CBCS slab.
I notice the same. Usually on a Marvel key that attracts an investor type more than a collector. Something like a Hulk 181 or Amazing Spider-Man 129


Investor or speculator?
Post 23 IP   flag post
would be nice to have a snugger fit. Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel

With all the problems/controversy CGC has had and still has I don't understand why people still use them.

The article explains why.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector KCBatmanFan private msg quote post Address this user
CBCS has a superior case, and that’s where all my personal submissions go but I’ll buy most CGC online other than Creep Engines if I like the book.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
The difference between purchase amount of a Newsstand graded 9.8 ($1,377) vs ungraded ($195.50) is $1,181 (604%).
The highest CBCS 9.8 sale was $565 vs CGC 9.8 for $755, a difference of $190 (34%)


While I won't argue the general point about pricing, I would point out that using the wrong methodology for calculating "difference" between two numbers exaggerates the percentages. The methodology that was chosen reflects a bias towards achieving a higher number and quite honestly, puts all of the supplied data in question.

The percentage difference between two values is calculated by dividing the absolute value of the difference between two numbers by the average of those two numbers. Multiplying the result by 100 will yield the solution in percent, rather than decimal form.

Using the methodology described above and the calculator in the link below, their stated percentage difference of 604% becomes 150% and the 34% stated above becomes 28.8%.
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percent-difference-calculator.php
Post 26 IP   flag post
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
When I sold a bunch of my books last summer, I came in pretty clearly below what I expected based on other recent sales. The phenomenon is confusing (and sad if you have CBCS books) but true.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Suck it up, buttercup!! KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
IDK....you can cherry pick just about anything to "prove" just about anything

I have this 8.5 in the current MCS auction
I would be happy with $100- actually across my 8 items an average of $100 would be just fine by me - although more would be better

This is just sales at MCS and you can see all recent ones were CGC.
In April someone paid $195 for a 9.0 but in May it was $285!!!
If this was CGC vs CBCS would they say the CBCS got 30% less than the CGC??
Soooo much depends on the actual day/week of the auction
Since no one reports on it I wonder if we scoured the interweb if there would be instances of CBCS going for more than CGC - bet we could find them!!

also...just me..but in no world is 9.6 to 9.8 worth $1600 on this book!!!


Post 28 IP   flag post
You can't get good wood on the ball every time. HotKeyComics private msg quote post Address this user
CBCS needs to educate the community that they give out less 9.8s on average than CGC. I did a comparison a couple years ago on UF4 and CGC was giving out around double the % of 9.8s that CBCS was, the problem is that nobody really knows that because CBCS doesn't advertise it.

a 9.8 from CBCS is harder to get and more reliable as a 9.8 grade imo and they completely ignore that in their advertising.

My comparison video from 2021:

clickable text

edit: added link
Post 29 IP   flag post
You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
But sellers want 9.8s, right? A 9.8 sells for higher prices than a 9.4 or 9.6 to those who buy the grade and not the book.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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