Buy CGC 9.9 10 at own risk20813
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Based on previous CGC video appears that they are now doing relative grading. People have started to figure out how to play the new grading. Buy 25 9.8s - crack them and resubmit with the hope of getting a few 9.9 / 10s Buy CGC 9.9 / 10 at own risk. Prices may not stick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLm301Rydd4 |
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 Forum Crier
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| VERY interesting! | ||
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nice... So...I have a Jumbo Comics 43 (can't remember the grade 2, 3??) bit like there are only 50 or so in existence...so relatively its a 7?? |
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The cgc have been comparative grading with multiple copies of the same book in the same submission for years. If you had multiple high grade copies of the same book, you split them between different submissions so they wouldn't be compared to each other. |
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson yes - but the key difference is now CGC marketing of their 9.9 grades incl 9.9 prescreening. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'd be interested in knowing who submitted the 25 Wolverine LS #1s and got back one 10.0, three 9.9s, and 21 9.8s in the same submission. It would seem very suspicious if it happened to be Metropolis. Even more so if one considered that they just got back the first (overgraded) GSX #1 in 9.9. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka They have been overgrading everything else. Why wouldn't they start handing out 9.9s and 10s? |
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 Collector
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Cassidy666 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have only been getting into purchasing slabbed comics for a relatively short time and I already found it very subjective based on what I have seen for high graded copies. When the news broke of CGC handing out 9.9s, I could see this was a purely financial decision. At this point, I am just regarding any grading by CGC as a guide and just go for what looks good to me and makes me happy on a personal level. | ||
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Cassidy666CGC has been giving gift grades for ages. I’ve purchased 9.4s and 9.6s online that were 8.5-9.0 at best in terms of presentation and obvious oversight. Shame on me for not inspecting further before committing. Wishful thinking says Eventually the dog is going bite the hand. We all know CGC will be fine because the same people who keep “uncovering” CGC mishaps keep sending book to them. Why not? You’re getting fools gold in exchange for coal and our hobby likes shiny. |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I could blame CGC for this nonsense. But they're just facilitating this new scam within the grading scam. The hobbyists paying 100x for the "best" [cough cough] are the disillusioned, nutjob, lunatics just tossing their expendable dollars around like idiots |
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Collector
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Cassidy666 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have to imagine it will all come crashing down at some point once they ruin the market that they are profiting off of. Yes, some/many collectors/profiteers will value the grade over what is within the slab and that will continue to prop up this section of the market, but eventually the 9.9 tulip bulbs will basically be regarded similar to current 9.8s. At some point... | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson The info is in the start of the video |
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 I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdSK6aGcrqw&ab_channel=AutomaticComics The plot thickens. |
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 Collector
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sborock_ComicLink private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have never approved of 9.9 or better screening. It's why I never implemented it at CGC or CBCS. Never loved a grade above 9.8, except when I saw a book that was unbelievable. Rare, but it happens. Buy the book, not the label..... |
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I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This plot is getting thick enough to use as spackle. https://youtu.be/H4wLuiu8LTc?si=2DmaAOFzVbma4ryy So, a CGC 9.9 can have a spine tick. By definition, don't spine ticks break colour? |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @James42 You can have a non-color breaking spine tick... but not on a 9.9, or a 10.0 for that matter. Just in case they try to wiggle that into the grade book at some future date. ANY spine tick would drop it immediately to a 9.8 at best. The difference between a 9.9 and a 10.0 are minute things like registration, staple placement, and color strike... just to give a few examples. I still think 9.9s and 10s are marketing grades. When the cgc floods the market with 9.9s, 9.8s will be the new 9.6s. Moderns and some Copper will be impacted the most. If it makes 9.8s more affordable, then have at, I say. |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Offering a different perspective.... Back in the day when Matt Nelson had his own business - Classics Incorporated - he had an article that made the case and demonstrated mathematically why there should be a lot more CGC 9.9's and 10's in the census. I'm not a mathematician and I forget the exact terms. The article is long gone. Maybe it's patterns or linear relations or regression - I forget. But the point was that CGC was intentionally holding back the number of given 9.9's and 10's. When Classics Inc and Matt were purchased by CGC and moved to Sarasota FL and renamed CCS, that article disappeared from the website. Well - Matt's President now. MAYBE he still believes there should be more 9.9's and 10's - and is in a position to do something about it. BTW - I share his opinion. His old - now long forgotten - article was convincing. HOW is it POSSIBLE that we have almost 4800 9.8 Ultimate Fallout 4's and not a single 9.9 or 10? There lots of other examples. So. There is no 9.9 prescreen right now. If CGC ever has one I think it would be wise to restrict it to true "modern" books. Say stuff published 2000 or later. Because otherwise the reject rate is going to be insanely high. IMHO - and others - there always should have been more 9.9 and 10's. They will still be rare for vintage comic books published on newsprint by World Color Press. As publishers moved to better papers and higher printing and no real outside advertising (accompanied by much higher cover prices) comic books in "mint" condition should go from incredibly rare to just seldom seen. Comic book grading companies shouldn't be focused on the market for comic books - at least not as far as grades assigned. Yes - their business exists because there is a market for graded comics - but the grade needs to be the grade. 9.9 and 10 shouldn't be marketing gimmicks. They should be grades. Not artificially limited - nor artificially inflated. When a 9.9 or a 10 is submitted that is what the grade should be. It shouldn't matter (supposedly the graders don't know) who submitted the book(s) So I suggest that 9.9 and 10 have been gimmicks all along - and MAYBE now they are starting to be treated as grades. Maybe. Or maybe I'm way too naïve and trusting. |
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Collector
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Cassidy666 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I get that point. However, it is also possible this move could also lead to more churn in the market, more chances of prices to go up for 9.8s, looking to be converted to 9.9s, and for CGC more opportunities to grow the volume of books being graded. The grading industry is serving a purpose, but it is always looking at the financial incentives as well. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan Just because a 9.9, 10.0, or even a 9.8 of a certain book doesn't exist doesn't mean that one should be created just to satisfy some sort of bell curve distribution. | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I 100% agree with what you say. But neither should 9.9's and 10's be graded 9.8. Maybe CGC was holding back on 9.9/10. Maybe it takes extra time to finalize MINT grades and they did not want to take that time. Again - let's use Ultimate Fallout 4 as an example. A book published in 2011. A book that CGC has - including variant cover and 2nd printing - certified over 8500 copies at 9.8. BUT NOT A SINGLE 9.9 or 10 That's not about a bell curve distribution anomaly. That's simply unbelievable. A few of those 9.8's had to be MINT grade books. CGC just wasn't looking or was deliberately not looking for mint. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Or they're simply aren't any due to printing issues, shipping issues, or handling issues... just to name a few. You'd rather assume the cgc is too lazy to do their job correctly as to believe otherwise? |
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan The difficulty is how the baseline is generated. In some collectible areas, the highest “grade” of a thing is based on the standards of production. A modern car generally has tighter tolerances than a car from 50 years ago (excepting Tesla, perhaps). The grading reflects this different manufacturing standard. You wouldn’t penalize the vintage car for factory build quality (unless egregious or non-standard). For comics you’d expect a 9.9 or 10.0 to exist for nearly every modern book that is being collected rather than read. Because there should be instances where a book makes it to a collector in “fresh from print” condition. Of course, this only applies if you have a slightly flexible standard that takes a 9.9 or 10.0 to mean “as original / mint”… But you can also apply an entirely different approach. Closer to Plato’s concept of “Forms” or ideal states - we can say a 10.0 grade reflects something nearer what it “should” be vs what it is. Then even books - straight from the printer - may not reach that ideal. So you can put on your statistician or philosopher hat and choose a side. Personally, I think it’s all marketing. Put on your MBA hat and it makes sense - both the prior approach (to generate more scarcity) and current approach (to reinvigorate submissions). |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The application of logic when changing the rules within the scam is a beautiful thing to see unfold | ||
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I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There were 90,000-odd copies of the main cover UF #4 printed and distributed. AFAIK, every one of them was polybagged. Polybags themselves are damaging to books, so I would expect every copy to at least have an indentation down the center of the back (mine certainly did). Other issues are probably prevalent. Marvel paper quality wasn't the greatest in the 2010s, even though it was better than it is now. I don't think you can make any assumptions about grade distribution in any print run, much less all print runs, just because you want some theoretical distribution of grades to be true. There are just too many variables. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @James42 The seam down the back side of the polybag resulted in a bend - in the back cover and sometimes the front (from storage) that almost never broke color. The bend isn't a problem with pressing. There is also the second print of the book, which was not polybagged. Additionally - the variant cover to the second print is a white background so more forgiving than the dark color backgrounds There just ought to be some MINT graded issues of UF 4. If books deserve a MINT grade they should get a MINT grade. CGC hasn't done so in the past. Maybe it's too much work. Maybe they just weren't looking (which is what Matt Nelson said in the infamous interview). Maybe it was on purpose. But whatever the reason it was not doing the job of grading right. Do we just keep doing it wrong so as to not disrupt anything? Because it's always been done wrong? If so, maybe we should do away with MINT grades of 9.9 and 10. Because in the past MINT grades were more like lottery ticket wins, not grades. |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When anyone or any entity effs with someone's money by changing the rules; even as a correction, its not going to go well. Doing "nothing" might have been the best option for CGC on this topic. But, y'know, that pesky profit thing is getting in the way |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Hmm... Moderated again!
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I understand the lack of 9.9 and 10 grades when basically the rule is that any perceived little thing is supposed to prevent them. And @DrWatson is correct, even if the paper is perfect it still comes down to things like registration, staple placement, color strike, centering, and so on. It is true that the printers have gotten better, and that handling is a more careful and protective process, but absolute perfection is VERY elusive. The fact that there are none, doesn't mean negligence and that there should be. |
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 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka And 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, 9.2, etc. |
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Hmm... Moderated again!
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders True, but I have some from both companies (not 9.9's or 10's) that I know a certain Borock guy handled, and I'm pretty comfortable with those. |
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders but those don’t carry a price multiplier of 20* which is not uncommon for 9.8 to 9.9. the more 9.9 there will be the lower the price multiplier will be. so if someone today is buying at a 20* and a few years down the road the multiplier has dropped to eg 5+ (which is bound to happen) then someone going to be out of some serious money |
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