heritage auction2053
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
just received the catalogue. time to dream and make choices |
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 Collector
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TruckJohnson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That place is way to pricey. The NEVER-ending auctions and huge auction fees don't make it worth the trouble for me. For what I collect, I've been able to find what I like elsewhere for less. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by TruckJohnson ...which is why when you bid that you only bid 80% of what you normally would be willing to pay |
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DLAComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Then you affect GPA too. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| .....and? | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The buyer's premium keeps me away from HA. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater Not sure why as long as you take into account total cost. No difference when you bid on an item on eBay with free shipping vs with shipping cost - does that mean that you bid the same amount regardless whether free shipping or not is being offered? |
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 COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
There are still deals to be had, just gotta be wary of getting too devoted to any particular book. Deals ARE few and far between, I've only gotten one book in the last year from them. One is better than none though, so its still worth checking out  Early last year comiclink had much better deals, but it seems they are catching up to HA quick. HA is pretty much setting values at this point, and up is always better for my collection  |
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 Collector
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Their prices are too steep. Auction fees are a killer. Bidding 80℅ of value devaluizes the book and you're not likely to win against someone with deep pockets. | ||
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 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Personally I think it's reprehensible to expect the buyer to pay the auction house fees. I know this is how these places have been run for years, but that don't make it right. All auction fees should be taken out of the seller's profit. | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego It's really the same. When you enter a bid on HA it tells you what your "actual" bid is (w/premium), so you are essentially just looking at the higher number to determine how much $ you are bidding (and then when paying you only pay the higher number, not separate). Tomato tomato either way the premium gets paid on the winning bid. If they eliminated the buyer's premium from the bid side, the "sold for" prices really wouldn't change as people would still be willing to pay the same amount for the same book; it would just take an additional step for HA to collect premium. @OrbitCityComics how are the books being de-valued? Sold prices always include the buyer's premium, and price guide data farms don't remove the premium from the winning bid (winning bid is what the comic is therefore worth, no matter what fees are included; the person was willing to pay that number for the book). If anything it's driving prices up. |
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DLAComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Then shipping which is outragous. I want 2 weeks and have.shipping combined. | ||
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer As an economist, I am coming at this from a market point of view. If you're bidding 80℅ of what you believe the true value of the book is worth, then you're not bidding it's true value. If I believe the book is worth a $100, but only willing to bid $80 due to fees, then it's deflating the market value of the book by $20 due to those fees. |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| except you aren't really bidding $80, you are bidding (paying) the full $100. The fees are just part of your bid, they don't matter. It's only the seller who is getting deflated, as the market shows a sale of $100 for the book. | ||
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DLAComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Which is exactly why i said it affects GPA. | ||
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Dick_Pontoon private msg quote post Address this user | |
| But how is that affecting GPA or perceived FMV? Let’s say I want a 9.4 copy of Ninjak #1, and the going price is $100, and that’s also what GPA reflects. There’s a million of them, and I’m not going to pay more than FMV. I can win one on Heritage for a bid of $80, and the BP brings it to $100 that I pay. GPA reflects a sale of $100. Or, I win one on ebay. There’s no BP, so I bid and win at $100. GPA again reflects a sale of $100. How is GPA skewed by a sale on Heritage as opposed to another venue? |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @poka on a more positive note, there's nothing "wrong" with paying market value for a product, or even sometimes more than, as HA often has books that NO ONE else is selling; dream away, I know I sure do when I see some of the gems in that catalogue |
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I really don't get the mindset that the buyer getting hosed for an extra 20% is an OK practice. Just because it's an established practice doesn't make it morally justifiable. | ||
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego look at it this way; your LCS is hosing you a lot more than 20%, they just aren't telling you exactly what it is. It's all just overhead. All that really matters in the end is what the buyer is willing to pay in total for a book If HA suspended all fees for an auction, people would be willing to "bid" 20% more, and the total sales would be the same in the end |
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 COLLECTOR
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Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Does Heritage charge the seller a premium too, if so what is it? | ||
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shrewbeer I don't think your grasping what my point of view is. I'm saying all the fees should come out of the seller's side, not the buyers side. Because it's Morally Wrong. The ammount a person bids is irrelevent to my point of view. The fact that the fee money comes out the wrong pocket is my point. | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam In most cases yes . However - if you have bought a book from them above a certain value you will get a voucher whereby you can sell the same book later for free. @Darthlego - as a buyer you get what you pay for and no risk that you get a box from eBay full of newspapers instead of a comic. The main looser is the seller - as they don't get the full value of the book unless they believe that HA can sell the book for a higher price than someone else. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
@DarthLego ahh gotcha. It read like you were with the others arguing price /FMV logic. Morality is out of my league, I dont have much understanding of principle  |
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Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Actually it is common for long established brick and mortar auctions houses that sell everything from A-Z (like Heritage) to charge a buyer's premium. If you've ever been to a live auction in person you would know this to be true. Usually the premium is anywhere from 10%-30%. Since a lot of these auctions houses are now able to conduct live auctions on the internet either by themselves or via AuctionZip and LiveAuctioneers to name a few, these buyers premiums have remained intact as that is how they are used to conducting business. With the advent of ebay and genre specific auctions like ComicLink and ComicConnect, they have gravitated more toward charging the seller a percentage premium of the sale and not the buyer. Why this is may have something to do with different aspects of overhead or just trying a different business model to attract customers. Either way I think it's a win, win as a way for both buyers and sellers to connect with each other over what we had before the advent of the internet. | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've bought on Heritage Auctions. It is useful to find rare condition key comics and pedigrees. Its worth it for that. I would buy common/lower value comics elsewhere (less thank $1k price tag). My experience was smooth. Paid lower than overstreet guide even with the buyer premium and shipping. Sucks for that seller though. | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DLAComics I am pretty sure that Heritage's 19.5% Buyers' Premium is accounted for when the sale is recorded in GPA. So if a slab closes with a high bid of $100, the sale is then recorded in GPA at a sold price of $120. I can't say with certainty because I have never used Heritage to sell books and it has been over a year since I compared the pro's and con's between Heritage,CL and CC. Here is my unsolicited comparison of the 3 comic auction consignment sites.... I like using Comic Link to sell, personally. ComicLink fronts the grading fees when you sub raws to CBCS and CGC for grading. This is a huge plus in my opinion, as this has allowed me to sub a lot of raws to CGC and CBCS, without having obscene amounts of money tied up in grading fees. The grading fees are taken out of the sold price, when you are paid.You also get CL's dealer discount on CBCS & CGC grading fees. Heritage's advantage is primarily in their name, that is really about it, IMO. Comic Connect's advantage is that they use anti-sniping software, which IMO blows Heritage out of the water, all things considered.If a bid is placed in a ComicConnect auction within the last 3-5 minutes at the end of the auction, the time to bid is then extended by another 3-5 minutes....or thereabouts, I can't remember the exact time extension. All 3 sites charge virtually the same commission to sellers, accounting for buyers' premiums, CC transaction fees.You just have to read between the lines to understand this. It would be ideal if ComicLink would employ the same sort of anti-sniping software that ComicConnect uses.I also don't like that CL does not report sales to GPA.....but neither of those things keep me from sending them books. I also don't think that "lesser visibility" is an issue with CL or CC.GA/SA collectors with deep pockets are more prone to buy from the "Big 3" auctioneer sites because they know won't have to take a chance with eBay sellers. As long as you don't send copper/modern slabs out for auction to Heritage, CL or CC, you will realize directly comparable returns. As much as one possibly can, considering that anything can happen with an auction. When it comes to buying raws, I always get the best scores off eBay.I primarily buy raws from "non-comic sellers" off eBay, though. |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Legally they can't claim the buyer's premium as part of the sale price. If a book is sold at a bid price of a $1000, then that is the final sale price they can report. Any other fees are just that; fees, and those can not be included as a sales price. This is why it deflates that actual value of the book. If I only have a $1000 to spend, including any extra fees, I am forced to bid below what I believe the book to be worth. If the money comes from the sellers end, then the auction house can report the full $1000. These auction houses prefer the buyer to pay due to the fact that they can advertise to sellers of high end items that they get to keep more of the final sale. |
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COLLECTOR
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @OrbitCityComics what do you mean by "Report"? The data mining site I know of captures both sale and premium for just a grand total sale. If you look up a book on HA past sales, it lists only the total as well (not the bid price). | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics I understand your contention and overall posotion but you are mistaken. When you place a bid in a Heritage auction, you will see a line where you typed your bid for $1000.00 You than clearly see an addition sign notating the 19.5% Buyers' Premium directly under that $1000.00. So, you type a bid of a $1000.00 on an HA slab. This is what you see before you hit "confirm bid". Your Bid $1000 ($1195 W/19.5% BP) + 19.5% Buyers Premium ( $195.00 ) $1000 ($1195 With 19.5% BP) So, the total including 19.5% BP, of the high bid, is clearly shown as the bid price on HA.com. No legality issue there. The 19.5% is part of the winning bidders' bid price and HA makes 100% sure bidders know this everytime they place a bid because the dollar figure including the 19.5% BP is put right in your face, in large text. The HA seller commission fees,CC transaction fees etc have nothing to do with the bid/sold price of the book, as far as GPA is concerned. I also remember having a conversation about wether or not HA's 19.5% BP was accounted for in GPA.It was about a specific book actually. An easy way to check this would be to log onto your HA account and pull up a search on sold slabs.Find a slab, look at the bid price given on the screen including the 19.5% BP.Then look at the price that isn't in parentheses. The winning bid on a slab would be shown as $1000 buuuut, there is the total of the $10000 bid + 19.5% BP shown in parentheses.You can't miss that. They report the total of the amount in parentheses to GPA, not the $1000 winning bid. |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer It doesn't matter what data mining captures. The actual sale price is the actual bid price. If they advertise, report earnings to the IRS, or make public claims, they can only claim bid amounts. Any other monies can only be claimed as fees. They like these fees because they are tax free. That fee pays their overhead cost. Basically, their devaluizing books and making money at it. |
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