What am I not understanding with CBCS pricing?20021
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MisterMR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I posted a version of this post on Reddit but figured I’d get more thorough responses here. I’ve only ever used CGC, but I’ve bought CBCS slabbed books and I like their slabs more than CGC’s, so I was thinking about submitting to CBCS soon. CGC says they automatically insure shipping back to customers up to $100,000. There is no extra fee. When I look at CBCS’s site though, it says they do not insure at all, and you have to buy insurance separately? If I submit a hypothetical comic worth $150 through CGC, the cost is $50: $25 grading + $5 invoice fee + $20 return shipping. The same submission through CBCS is $65: $24 grading + $25 return shipping + $16 insurance. This is a very barebones example and I’m assuming the insurance costs are grouped in “tiers”? For example, maybe the $16 cost is the same up to a certain insured amount? In which case, does the cost become more manageable if you’re submitting a lot of books? Or is there a cost trade off with the grading fees for high value books? For example you can get anything graded by CBCS for no more than $200, while CGC will charge a percentage, and that’s where you make up the cost? I don’t get it otherwise. I like CBCS and would love for them to gain market share, but I don’t understand how they’d ever hope to do so if they’re charging such a substantial price difference than CGC. |
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 Collector
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Ginosdad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Following | ||
| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When CBCS revamped their tiers and pricing, my biggest criticisms were them getting rid of memberships and their discounts, and their new ungodly expensive shipping and insurance rates. | ||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Oddly when they changed the pricing and shuttered the Canadian office I found that the other guys I didn't get dinged with extra FedEx BS fees but I did with CBCS - used to be the other way around!!! Not an issue as I have send in nothing this year (almost bought nothing either!) and attended no conventions...maybe next year? |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Shipping is already expensive without the insurance and obviously even moreso when added. I still prefer CBCS above all others but I will only submit with a discount code of 15% or more or a smaller submission with a lower discount code....hopefully CBCS reduces their grading and shipping fees. | ||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
 No rust here...
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MisterMR Welcome to the forum.... The issues you mention with shipping and "no insurance" all happened after our pal Steve Borock left CBCS. During Steve's tenure here, grading fees were lower, shipping fees were lower and included insurance. But the bean counters at Beckett found a way to spoil what Borock had built within just a few months. The beckett boys thought they knew how to run the comic grading biz better than the man with 40+ years of comic experience. Well, therein lies the reason why the prices are where they are. But, even though the pricing seems to be misaligned, keep in mind that CBCS offers a superior comic holder, and more accurate grading. And even though CBCS offers a better product---- It's hard being an advocate for people who do things the wrong way! Still better than cgc... Miss my pal Steve running the show and that's fo-sho! |
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 Collector
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nearmint67 Don't we all? |
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nearmint67 ahhh...the better product....how long did beta last? I honestly don't know who my next submission(s) will be with....likely whoever is at a show I go to if I have books I want to send in...so less and less likely to be CBCS as I don't think they hit Canadian shows (none appeared on their event listings at least) Potentially CBCS has the lead if they are books I know I just want to grade and sell as it is easier to have MCS pick the books up from the CBCS offices....but I hear that books from the other guys can also make their way straight to MCS if the right options are clicked As far as grading goes...I've seen enough examples from both to know that errors occur - but I've had enough back from both to not be swayed one way or the other - similarly with the case..like sure it's 'clearer' than the other guys but it's not like the others are opaque or anything! |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| With the significant price resistance to common slabs in the market lately, I'm not far from considering going back to mostly raw comic selling only with the prices that have been outlined above. Sometimes it takes a visual $$ representation to turn the switch off. Now that the "uninformed" investors are seemingly out of this market, true hobbyists seem to be switching to raw books. That is what I am personally seeing from my sales numbers. |
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 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 With the recent price increases in the cost of slabbing books with either CGC and CBCS what I am still not seeing is the demand side of the equation. As long as the market seems unwilling to absorb the price increase and pay more for graded comics the idea of getting more books graded is problematic. Comic sellers were blessed when governments closed the brick and mortar stores while handing out stimulus checks. It was during this pumped up market that the grading companies decided to increase their fees. Now that everything has come back to reality it will be interesting to see what happens. |
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 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My pc is nothing but raws. Always has been. If I buy a comic for my pc, and it's in a slab, it gets cracked out. Slabs are for selling only. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Slabs were around well before the comic price spike/covid and it'll be around after. Slabbing provides a valuable service over and above just grading...especially useful for older books. | ||
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I agree, the detection of restoration and checking books that are complete. Slabbed books are handy for relatives selling the books at the auction houses in the future. Now for the increased prices for grading. The first month that they got a spike in submissions during the closed down is when they should of announced price increases. The companies didn't so that's when the long turnarounds happened. |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| All great points. All anyone can state is what is working for them and not working for them and have that information feed the total amount of information out there. For me - it's not working very well anymore with slabs as a seller. It's hitting my profits more slabbing than having someone think a book is a certain grade in its raw state. The outsiders with the deep pockets aren't as numerous anymore. When someone pays $150 for a presumed (what they believe to be) a 7.0 raw comic and when someone will also pay $150 + a slight bit more for a slabbed 7.0; the choice for me is very easy now. Therefore, for me and me only, I am cutting down significantly the number of submissions to either company on a monthly basis. Between pressing and slabbing that delta isn't cutting it anymore like it used to. People were paying crazy amounts for slabs as if they were gold the minute they were in plastic. I think very high grade books are still exempt but I shall see and take a closer look at that |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The comic value market correction certainly makes it more difficult to justify continued slabbing at their current high costs. Already slabbed books will just be at the mercy of the current FMV (where given the current FMV for said book, one may not have paid to slab that book). But when comic values were at their height of spiking, it was almost a slabbing free-for-all. The spiking comic values were outpacing the slabbing cost increases. Now that comic values have settled down so does the slabbing appetite. | ||
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 I keep buying dumb stuff because I'm a bit of an underground influence marketer.
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Oldfuzznts private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think the goal is market share. I'm new to this, but it seems CBCS has been playing second fiddle to CGC for a long time. I keep reading, "Send your high-value books to CGC." I think the pricing structure is meant to attract more prestige books to the population report. If they wanted my newsstand Coneheads 1, they'd offer pressing at a $10 per book loss leader for grading. |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Funny - I just started looking for Coneheads #1 in a newsstand the other day  Good karma? |
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I keep buying dumb stuff because I'm a bit of an underground influence marketer.
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Oldfuzznts private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Live from Remulak. |
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 I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 15 bucks isn't much, given the quality difference. But I don't get books graded for resale. If I did, I would probably go CGC all the way. Like it or not, CGC-graded books seem to have better resale value. | ||
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I keep buying dumb stuff because I'm a bit of an underground influence marketer.
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Oldfuzznts private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by James42 And I suppose it's possible they're aware of this perception and structured their pricing in an effort to change it. Who knows? CBCS' VSP, I think, is a very valuable service. CGC's strength is in the ability to data mine their extensive census. I'll say this, the more slab-cracking and re-subbing that goes on with CGC books, the more their census info is debased. It's a problem for them, long term. |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The ONLY ace the cgc has left holding is being first and the market recognition that gives them. CBCS isn't the cgc and they really shouldn't aspire to be. It's like a mother asking her younger son why can't he be more like his older brother when the mother only sees her older son through rose colored glasses. |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oldfuzznts The census has been whacked for years, especially since they quit giving credit for returned labels. |
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I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I hadn't thought about that. It probably doesn't have much effect on the stuff I collect (the most recent graded book I bought has a grand total of 20 copies in the census, and only one in the grade I bought), but I shudder to think how inaccurate the numbers are for books like ASM #300. There really isn't any way to fix it, either. Ugh. |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hulk 181 census numbers. Grade it - I don't like grade Re-grade it - ok let me sell New buyer - let me press and regrade it New buyer - I dont like this grade New buyer - regrade On And on And on And on X8 Yea... 181 #s are seriously wacked |
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 Cover, 8 pages before the staples, 8 pages after, back cover.
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MrNotSoNice private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think that after Beckett bought CBCS, they were under the gun to make a better and more profitable endeavor out of it. They saw a huge backlog with terribly long turnaround times. I've had orders that took 11 months to get back. That is unsustainable. So Beckett increased prices to reduce demand for those books not worth grading. This is classic Economics 101. They also moved to a larger building, probably added people and systems, and started to get books returned much faster. I think it was the right move. CBCS is moderating prices, and searching for 'the right price' via discount codes (recently had a 20%-off one), which I almost always use. This is a tool CBCS can employ when the market is 'soft' as many think it is now. 2025 could be completely different. I don't do business with CGC, but CBCS does charge fees for insurance. Sometimes I buy it and sometimes I don't. I once had an incredible pain-in-the-ass experience dealing with a USPS postal insurance claim. Was a total waste (not CBCS insurance I know). I usually submit 10 or more books at a time to make both outbound and return freight make sense. I'm glad CBCS did away with memberships. It was a complicated system. Supposedly I had some kind of 'coupons', but I never could get one used. It was stupid. Why I like CBCS vs. CGC, CBCS slabs are better, but comparable CBCS has more accurate grading IMHO CBCS VSP service (I am a big fan of signed books) CBCS people have been nice to me (CGC people were once rude to me at a convention) I have had very good encounters with CBCS Customer Service who have notified me of signatures they found in some of my books. A few bucks a book is worth it to me for the quality difference. There is evidence that CGC slabs sell for a bit more than CBCS slabs, but I foresee that changing in the future. Yes, no Canada office is a problem for Canadians. I am also a fan of Steve Borock. |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have talked to a couple of people at CBCS about the fact that their insured shipping costs makes their final product more expensive than CGC. With books worth thousands of dollars, MUCH MORE expensive than CGC. And while some collectors may have a reason to hate CGC and avoid them, you are not going to do well as the #2 company charging more than the #1. I send in thousands of books a year for other people. Two years ago CBCS was getting maybe 25% of those books. Now - from me - it is essentially books with unwitnessed signatures for VSP. Just a couple of days ago I completed the submission for 16 books (all with unwitnessed signatures). Shipping with insurance was $119. It would have $45 with CGC. The insurance costs don't affect me personally as I have private shipping insurance. But I doubt that is true for most. CBCS is certainly aware what CGC costs. Grading and shipping. I suppose someone has done the math and decided they make more money with this pricing structure. But I don't believe it. You NEVER see CGC running sales. |
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I have never thought of that. It is absolutely true. Don't, for one second, think that CBCS isn't still making a profit even with those specials. They're just making a larger profit without them. Maybe, for a year or so, CBCS should restructure their pricing so people pay the equivalent of those 'specials'. I dunno, something for them bean counters to think about. |
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I keep buying dumb stuff because I'm a bit of an underground influence marketer.
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Oldfuzznts private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan Short-term and long-term outlooks. Based on your post you sound like a dealer. Getting rid of membership fees tracks with what I was saying about the pricing if there's an expectation the dealer submission model will atrophy in the future. If you want to attract individuals investing and holding and not people trying to flip the next hot thing, pricing like this is exactly what you do. |
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oldfuzznts With all due respect, I don't think CBCS gives a rat's behind who uses their service ... nor should they. |
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