Is there a rejection fee for failed signature verification?19794
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave That's very generous of you. It doesn't match well with this post, but still, 3 check marks for generous thinking: Quote: Originally Posted by multi007 |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Saw that and agree but chalk it up to cognitive dissonance. I still think there is a misunderstanding of the outcome. It doesn’t -imply- a fake signature. The failure to verify shouldn’t be read that way (even if the confidence level / threshold is being viewed as overly tight). The CC company should not take the failure to imply fraud either. I’m disappointed (or would be disappointed) if the CC reimburses here. Those costs are ultimately borne by all… Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If the cc company reimburses, the only impact will be on the seller it charges back. No innocent cc holders are injured in this scenario, no cost for everyone to bear. | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by multi007 I feel like I know you a little bit better now though. The seller didn't commit a fraud, you're the one trying to run game. You know what you bought. You chose to buy a COA book instead of one that was already verified or witnessed. If you didn't trust the COA, you wouldn't have bought it. Did the COA book cost less than a verified copy would cost? Did you tell the seller in advance that you expect a refund if it doesn't bump up to verified? Seems that would have been the fair thing to do if that's what your expectations were. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My take on all of this is don't buy unslabbed books with Stan Lee signatures and be cautious when buying verified CBCS slabs with Lee sigs. The signature changed so much over the years and is forged so often, that even people who have witnessed Stan Lee sign their books have gotten rejected by Beckett. | ||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders Add me to that list. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Hexigore private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders This is precisely why I haven’t sent my Stan Lee signed books in. I personally witnessed him sign each one. But the signature varied from book to book. I know he signed them, but if you put them side by side, you’d swear it wasn’t the same person signing. I’ll just save my money and be content knowing I got to meet him and got some neat souvenirs in the process. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @chester15 There is virtually zero chance the seller loses a $ here. The CC at most may intervene and essentially pay out to Multi to make whole. If so, it goes into the pile of costs that ultimately are borne by others. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia If he had stated his intentions in a message, the majority of sellers would just block him, sell to someone without the possible boomerang effect. He bought an unverified book, and it's still an unverified book. The only thing lost was the opportunity to upgrade, and the fees associated with taking that risk. I don't think the seller should have to take it back, nor should the cc company force it. It has not been proven to be anything other than what was represented. Is it now in question? Yes, but not proven. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @multi007 if you truly believe you were sold a forgery, can you provide us the Ebay seller name so we can avoid them at all costs. Edit: It appears Excelsior Collectibles is the main Ebay seller for these books. Do all of the Stan Lee Collectibles comics have that annoying sticker added to the book? https://www.ebay.com/str/excelsiorcollectibles |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Your opinion of me is disappointing. To answer your question, no I did not ask. I bought it based on his description saying it was authentic and came with a coa. The book was $165. Should I make a similar purchase in the future, I will message the seller and state “I plan to send it in to Beckett to be authenticated, and if it does not pass, do you agree to take the return?” I should say that I have bought about 5 other raw signed books with reputable coas, Neal Adams, George Perez, Stan lee again, John Romita sr, and they all passed verification. Also, I send all books with coas in to get authenticated by Beckett. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I’m not insinuating. I just want a return for refund since it failed. It’s like if you buy an autograph from a mall, and it fails authentication, they will return for refund. This is standard in the autograph industry. |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave You are presuming the cc companies charge rates based on their costs. So if their costs go up, our rates go up. It doesn't work that way. They charge the most they can, the highest the market will bear, the most allowed by law, and what some algorithm says they can get away with. It will never go down just because some year they had lower expenses. If they make any payouts, it just means a slightly less egregious profit for them. |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not getting into the quagmire of this conversation but I just wanted to say Beckett does preliminary scans on the signatures fir 10 bux. You copy link to ebay auction and they tell you if it should pass or not. This is not a definitive answer but may help make a decision. This might save future issues. https://www.beckett-authentication.com/services/signature-review |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Bronte this is a good option for the future, thanks! | ||
| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| No problem. There is one catch. If they can't give you an answer one way or the other they refund you. If they fail this is what it looks like.  This is shat it looks like if they can't give you an answer.(essentially it's not a definite yes or no until tbey see it. They passed my kirby signature even tbough preliminary was inconclusive)   |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 If they spend more on paying out frivolous claims their costs go up and they will adjust prices higher. This is an in-aggregate view, obviously. Of course one small payout does zilch. Nada. Didn’t even realize it required explanation… But if this is indicative of the BS claims they (card issuers) are paying out, of course it impacts other customers. In this case the seller should prevail if contested. Most merchants lose these cases but based on the facts here, it should be a slam dunk for seller. Contesting is costly but also takes time for the bank to manage. If you have these -types- of BS claims masquerading as fraud claims clogging up the system, it does raise costs for all users. If (again) these types of claims are normalized, those increased costs absolutely will be passed on to customers. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out.
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power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| so you if you are rejected. no refund and another fee. makes more sense to just not authenticate. | ||
| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave In most businesses it works that way. Higher costs bring higher prices. In the cc business, they are always charging as much as the market will bear, or what regulators will allow. No room to go higher. Then what they make depends on how well they manage their costs. Claims are a drop in the bucket. Their biggest exposure is account balances abandoned through bankruptcy or death. Tens of thousands of dollars at a time disappearing from the balance sheet. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
The issuer Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 That isn’t how CC companies work. They don’t extend credit or charge fees to end-customers. They charge fees on transactions(effectively like clearinghouses between merchants and issuer banks). Because they don’t lend / extend credit, they don’t carry any risks or burdens due to account balance issues, bankruptcies, etc. The issuer banks (collecting interest, extending loans, etc) are also the ones who then need to manage fraud claims. The more BS fraud claims to be managed, the more costs across these issuers would rise. When you have costs rising at one issuer due to some dumb policy, they may take a margin hit. When it is across multiple (big enough) issuers, you better bet some costs are hitting their customers too. :-) Btw, if fraud costs were going through CC companies (hypothetical only), those costs would most likely pass on through the transaction fees. You wouldn’t even see the cost as merchants will bake it into their own retail prices. So long as universal enough, likely a high pass through there too. |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I suppose, no matter how convoluted or entwined, it comes out of our pockets somehow. Sad to say. | ||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by multi007 I just hope that you will reconsider and do the right thing. Many of us have bought signatures that have failed verification, it didn't mean that we were wronged. We recognize authentication failure as a reality of risk we are taking. We take the fails with the successes and move on. Maybe the CC company will side with you, but that doesn't make it right. You still have to bear false witness and claim that another party wronged you when they did not. It's important to a community in general that we agree to live with the terms that were established at the time of the purchase agreement. Not try to create post-agreement conditions that serve our own self-interest. Our reputation...our integrity...those are the only things we get to keep when we are gone. |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Without seeing the item, the certification and the seller info it's hard to give an opinion. Maybe post some messages of the seller response and photos of the book and that might lead more people to consider siding with you. You should also reconsider thinking something is authentic because of a coa and matching hologram. Also, try not to bicker with @ebaymafia too much. I heard, from a highly unreliable source, that he gets all riled up from these forum discussions and gets all the pent up rage out by yelling at his wife and kids. |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders @flanders They do a good enough job of antagonizing on their own. Actually, today was a big day for them. Coincidentally, both kids left the house at 2:15 this afternoon for their first day of work. My daughter for her first babysitting job in the neighborhood and my son for first day cleaning carts and driving the range ball picker at the golf course. I may have to give them more respect now that they are breadwinners for the family. Right after I confiscate their earnings, lol. |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I don't think he cares if people side with him or not. And he has no need to reconsider his approach. It's working fine. If verified, all good. If not, Beckett and the cc company team up to correct the "problem". Win-win. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 To be fair, it sounds like it was the first time facing dealing with signature verification failure. We have some experience on this forum having to talk people down off the ledge after the shock and disappointment of a first verification failure. We typically do it by lobbing verbal grenades at them until they come to their senses and climb down. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia It would still be interesting to see what book was signed. Maybe CBCS is less likely to authenticate a Stan Lee sig on some $5 rubbish. I've seen far too much dreck with his signature on it in CGC yellow slabs and never understood why people are willing to pay so much for them. This for example:  |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess if you want an authentic Stan Lee signature on the cheap, not having to also pay up for a comic that is expensive in itself, that's one way to do it. And how many gorgeous covers did Stan Lee's Rorschach-like signature ruin? Maybe better to have them separately - cheapo book with Stan Lee signature, clean expensive book. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 Relatively inexpensive book. Stan sig on back cover. Exceptionally rare?  |
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