CBCS vs CGC1957
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JWKyle With notes like these, do you really expect it to come back a 9.0??? What if you get a 7.0?? Crack again and resubmit to CBCS?? Notes on 16-45A3383-003: Showcase #55 "tiny spine wear & stress & small crease on logo breaks color. fade right front cover edge sun shadow front & back cover, tiny price in pencil top left corner back cover" |
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Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Was that from CGC or CBCS? Nevermind, I see the CBCS # on it. |
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Kaleljll - gotta be from cbcs @JWKyle - you probably had a better chance 6 months ago when cgc was busy catching up on their backlog with their newly hired graders. From a positive note - at least they both agreed on the page quality  |
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Kaleljll private msg quote post Address this user | |
Here is CGCs....grader notes coming soon. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
 good point @Kaleljll@JWKyle do you get the notes for free on that book? This would be a great thread to compare them My money is on missed sun shadows. Plz correct me if wrong but I dont think a book can crack 8 with them (I have a beautiful 7 with SS) |
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shrewbeer - you seem to have high thoughts of cgc grading notes. You should know better! Will probably just say - spine small stress lines | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @poka ok I'll give you that. I'm sure the notes just say "STAIR DISTRIBUTION GRADING" Heres a rough example of SDG, you may want to do some more research to fully understand the method. The basic premise is that one throws a stack of books down a flight of stairs and they are graded accordingly. Slippery (glossy) books do the best. Note the picture shows how it's done by Ivy League professors, but you get the point.  |
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| Post 107 • IP flag post | ||
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JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer First off just because CBCS has an opinion that this book is a 7.5 at that time they graded it does not mean in everyone's opinion it's a 7.5. I have sent in other books were I agree with the opinion on the grade they have given other books. Grading is a skill and a art all rolled up. Maybe I was influenced by CGC's first opinion of the book that it was a 9.0. After I cracked it out I would have thought in the 8.0-8.5 range with 8.0 being on the lowest it would get 7.5 was kind of a hard hit. I would also state that I'm about 90% sure the book was pressed at one time or another as it showed some tell tell signs. |
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JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_OActually Jesse I was going to send it back to CBCS again after CGC graded it again but I showed my hand so whatever it gets it gets. Although I do love cross grading books as it gets me in tune with how the companies handle different defects. And it also let's you see how in tune they are with their own standards. |
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've had 5 books graded by CBCS so far. In my opinion they grade more harshly than CGC. Back story is I had some books that were CGC 9.8. I sent them to CBCS for regrading because I don't like the CGC case (worried about damage caused by the case). They came back 9.4! Two with that * or Checkmark thing. I hate than darn Checkmark thing. CBCS says on their website In rare cases, a Check Mark will be placed on the label but I've already got two out of the five books I submitted with that darn checkmark *. Those odds don't seem "Rare". I have 20+ more books pending grading I'll add my two cents after I get those back. | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well I think it's obvious CGC missed the sun shading and the pencil mark on that. You should be mad at CGC for missing that stuff, not CBCS for catching it. CGC has dropped another notch in my eyes. | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KingNampa the checkmark is a good thing, it means that there were internal defects which caused the grade but the outside eye appeal looks much better than typical books of the same grade. | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego No internal defects. Here is the notes: 9.4* Verified White Notes: tiny spine stress does not break color, 2 tiny bends top right corner front cover very light surface wear I'm just offering my comparison experience. CGC is less tight on the grading, which isn't such a bad thing for resale. I regraded my books with CBCS because I want the better case. Not interested in selling. If I was ever going to sell would probably send them back to CGC or sell them raw. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This one hit my dashboard last night. Not valuable but wanted one in high grade to hang up behind the bar (I expected 9.8). Pissed at myself for missing these defects. The way this conversation is going it seems I could have just given it to CGC for a fake grade of 9.8   |
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Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Sorry to hear that man. This just reinforces my belief that if I get anything slabbed I should go ahead get it pressed before hand. There's always going to be some small flaw that I could miss that a press would eliminate. |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KingNampa So your intentions on any book you ever sell is maximum profit and hope your buyers don't catch the defects that you know CGC will miss? Good to know. Good luck with that. | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Themaxx35 yep agreed. My grading fees just went up 12-25$ now that Steve is doing pressing in-house, but seems like its totally worth just adding it on. @KingNampa to each his own. Personally I want a book graded correctly, even if it prevents me from porking someone on resale. Btw CBCS is going to sell much better than raw, even if you think you can advertise it as a better grade |
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Who are we to say Cgc or Cbcs is "right". Grading varies based on the grader. The human factor. But you can agree that CGC in recent years grades books slightly more favorable. So if you are selling a book don't you want a higher grade=more money. Nothing unethical about wanting to get the highest value for your books. You can't act like CBCS is perfection when it comes to grading or that only CBCS does it "correctly" like @shrewbeer. That's bias on your side. It could be highly possible that CGC grades "correctly" as well. But we are just fan boys with our opinions. Both companies have their good and bad points. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KingNampa I'll give you that in theory you could be correct, IF one assumes that CGC discovered the same flaws that CBCS did. In that case I would actually say the grade would be the same (give or take a half either way) The issue at hand is not really CGC grading wrong, rather CGC grades do seem correct based on what they found; they just don't seem to find it all. |
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Resurrection private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JWKyleThis book should never have been a 9.0. Period. |
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Resurrection 100% accurate  |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa But if you overgrade, like PGX does, then you run a serious risk of hurting your business's reputation, not to mention the market of books flooding eBay. |
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ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics This last comment has much truth to it. With these other grading companies not "ensuring top quality", can hurt their business, but also be an indicator that may cause CGC and PGX slabbed books to decrease in value - because of these "past" problems. IMO - CBCS may be sitting in a good spot at this time. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VillageIdiot Why not? That's a NICE looking book, one I would be pleased to have in my collection. There's a whole generation of buyers now who never grew up learning how to grade on their own, and overjudge some things, and underjudge others, based on their own particular foibles. And, because of that, and because of the RIDICULOUS multiples of VALUE that the market places on tiny and even non-existent differences in levels of physical preservation, many of them freak out when a book is graded 9.0 by one, and 7.5 by another. We're talking about the difference between VF/NM and VF-. I...and many, many others...would have KILLED if that was the range of disagreement about any particular book in the olden days! When you buy thousands upon thousands of books graded "MINT!" that are 5.0s, and "VF+!!" that are 3.0s...you'll very much appreciate that we're talking about less than a full grade difference. Is that book a 9.0? Maybe, Maybe not. But you can't grade a book from notes! Notes are to be used, ALWAYS, IN CONJUNCTION with having the book in hand. You can't take notes and grade from those, especially when they are qualified ("tiny", "very small", "slight" ) rather than quantified ("1/4" tear", "1/8" spine crease", etc.) Perspective is a good thing. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DocBrown the whole point of getting a book slabbed is to eliminate the need for discussion as to what the grade is. Thats the business model; grading. CBCS takes a good amount of my money; appreciative of how things used to be or not, whats the point if we cannot hold the companies to a high standard of trust in a grade? Dont get me wrong, I still love haggling over a raw grade, its a fun exercise! Just not for a graded book, trust in grade is everything(pgx anyone?). |
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer @shrewbeer If only that were true. I wish, but its not the reality. Until the invention of a computer and a robot laser/arm/camera that grades every book to the exact same standards exactly the same time every time, until that happens there will never be an exact grade. We all are paying CGC, CBCS, PGX for a human being's opinion of what the grade of a book is based upon "kind of" similar grading standards. It is not exact and it is subject to the person grading it. You can have a reasonable assumption the grade is correct but it would be foolish to 100% trust it. You can't even trust grading companies to 100% of the time catch restoration. With that said, slabbed books still gives a buyer some reasonable assumptions about the condition of the book. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nobody is saying 100%. High standard, ie not 9.0 vs 7.5 | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer And that perspective is why you will have nothing but problems and unmet expectations: your expectations aren't reasonable, and your understanding of how books are graded isn't accurate. There will NEVER be an "elimination of the discussion as to what the grade is", because ALL grades are only OPINIONS. Grading isn't done by machines calibrated to the nearest picometer, nor should it be. Grading is an organic process, an art AND a science, done by human beings, human beings who, themselves, would grade one book a 9.4 one day, a 9.6 another, and a 9.2 another. And none of those grades is wrong. The problem isn't a lack of consistency in grading...it's the sheer and utter lunacy of the market placing absurd premiums on minute and even non-existent differences in physical preservation. There's no way....none...that a 9.6 X-Men #12 is "worth" nearly $6,000, while a 9.4 is worth less than half that, a mere $2700. The difference between a 9.6 and a 9.4 are miniscule. Even on the most conservatively graded 9.6, and the most liberally graded 9.4, we're STILL only talking tiny differences in condition that 99.9997% of COMIC BUYERS couldn't even point out. And yet, one's "worth" more than double the other. What's the difference...? The number in the corner. That's it. You want to get frustrated, get frustrated at the market making these ridiculous differences in value. Don't get mad at the graders. You're only buying an opinion. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Your standards are too high. The difference between a 9.0 and a 7.5, while ADMITTEDLY broad, isn't that big a difference. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa And there shouldn't be! We're talking about items that, for nearly all of their existence, were made to very low production standards, and were meant to be enjoyed then tossed. They were never meant to be argued about in terms of "well, this spine tick is 1/16", and it barely breaks color, so is it a 9.8 or a 9.6?" Don't misunderstand...I'm glad it IS argued, because that's the field I play in, but they weren't intended that way. Grading is, again, an organic process, a feel, a look. It's not something that can be done by a computer, just like any art form can't be done that way. |
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