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-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any other company that has a "mechanical error" option on their submission form? I've always had to contact a company first and get a rga (returned goods authorization) or a return form of some sort to fill out. I'm wondering at what point it became more convenient to just have the option on the submission form.
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkinWillie
I've had quite a few CGC submittals over the past year - very little NRs on them. Bought one GA book on eBay a few years back that looked like an oil slick and I returned that to the seller. I do the modern slabs thing with CGC and have had good luck with them so far.

This raises a question. If rings aren’t considered defects according to CGC (and thus, non-returnable), should sellers be on the hook for them?


IMO, if a seller won't accept a return for excessive newton rings, I'll go elsewhere. I don't have blind obedience to any seller like some submitters do to CGC.


This is one reason I no longer sell slabs via ebay. Another favorite is buyers who return slabs because a slab is not in Mint condition. OR buyers who think they grade better than grading companies
Post 102 IP   flag post
-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkinWillie
I've had quite a few CGC submittals over the past year - very little NRs on them. Bought one GA book on eBay a few years back that looked like an oil slick and I returned that to the seller. I do the modern slabs thing with CGC and have had good luck with them so far.

This raises a question. If rings aren’t considered defects according to CGC (and thus, non-returnable), should sellers be on the hook for them?


IMO, if a seller won't accept a return for excessive newton rings, I'll go elsewhere. I don't have blind obedience to any seller like some submitters do to CGC.


This is one reason I no longer sell slabs via ebay. Another favorite is buyers who return slabs because a slab is not in Mint condition. OR buyers who think they grade better than grading companies


One of the reasons you stopped selling on eBay is because buyers were returning CGC slabs with excessive newton rings? Question: if the rings were excessive, why did you not get CGC to reholder them before selling them?
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkinWillie
I've had quite a few CGC submittals over the past year - very little NRs on them. Bought one GA book on eBay a few years back that looked like an oil slick and I returned that to the seller. I do the modern slabs thing with CGC and have had good luck with them so far.

This raises a question. If rings aren’t considered defects according to CGC (and thus, non-returnable), should sellers be on the hook for them?


IMO, if a seller won't accept a return for excessive newton rings, I'll go elsewhere. I don't have blind obedience to any seller like some submitters do to CGC.


This is one reason I no longer sell slabs via ebay. Another favorite is buyers who return slabs because a slab is not in Mint condition. OR buyers who think they grade better than grading companies


One of the reasons you stopped selling on eBay is because buyers were returning CGC slabs with excessive newton rings? Question: if the rings were excessive, why did you not get CGC to reholder them before selling them?


“Excessive” is very subjective. I have had buyers return with the faintest newton ring.

Oh and latest when I just uploaded a few slabs last month is a $800 book which is now being returned by French Customs as it was not cleared in French customs on time because the buyer did not check the tracking or the SMSs French customs sent him. And of course ebay forced me to refund him within 3 days while I can wait for months before I get my book back
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
.
If you can’t accept the possibility of rings, don’t buy a CGC slab, and certainly don’t blame the seller for it. These are known side effects of CGC holders.
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
Ive intentionally bought a CGC slab with excessive rings, price was low, and was sending it in to CGC for a signing. So in that case, it wasnt a big deal to me.

Same with case cracks... If its a book I want to eventually get signed, having a case that's cracked will save me some money.
Post 106 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I've had books returned for Newton rings.
The most memorable return was "Hey, there's oil in the slab".
I did not respond with text; but I immediately opened up a return for him with no questions asked.
He then blocked me.

Jackass
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-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Oh and latest when I just uploaded a few slabs last month is a $800 book which is now being returned by French Customs as it was not cleared in French customs on time because the buyer did not check the tracking or the SMSs French customs sent him. And of course ebay forced me to refund him within 3 days while I can wait for months before I get my book back


Ok. That's messed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
.
If you can’t accept the possibility of rings, don’t buy a CGC slab, and certainly don’t blame the seller for it. These are known side effects of CGC holders.


One man's side effect is another man's defect. I haven't bought some CGC slabs because of newton rings. I've personally never returned one because of newton rings, but I would if they were excessive and not seen in the pictures. Pictures can be altered or tweaked.

It's not a question of blaming the seller, it's about having standards that I find acceptable. I'm not someone who returns something just because I find a minor flaw in it. I do expect a seller to accept some responsibility for whatever it is he sells.
Post 108 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I've gotten to the point where I actually put the Newton Ring situation in the listing as a seller.
Words like light Newton rings, moderate, significant seem to go a long way in helping the potential buyers.
Do I like doing it? No - I hate that I have to do it.
Is it the right thing to do since that flip Sarasota doesn't give a rats ass? - I think it is.
Someone in the supply chain needs to demonstrate some integrity and it won't be in Florida

They're too busy giving out graded key chains at shows or whatever the hell their Marketing function thinks is cute.
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Collector IraK private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
They're too busy giving out graded key chains at shows or whatever the hell their Marketing function thinks is cute.


Agree!!
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-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Words like light Newton rings, moderate, significant seem to go a long way in helping the potential buyers.


Perfect!!!! If something like that is in the listing (not a generic "CGC slabs can have newton rings" ) then it's totally on the buyer!!! I would not return a slab listed that way, even if I failed to read it in the listing. Just as a seller has some responsibility, a buyer does too.
Post 111 IP   flag post
I haven't aired it out. It's part of the provenance. Galen130 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Words like light Newton rings, moderate, significant seem to go a long way in helping the potential buyers.


Perfect!!!! If something like that is in the listing (not a generic "CGC slabs can have newton rings" ) then it's totally on the buyer!!! I would not return a slab listed that way, even if I failed to read it in the listing. Just as a seller has some responsibility, a buyer does too.


That’s what I count on with buyers. I take photos of CGC slabs I’m selling because it’s easier to show the N.R.’s. Then I state so in the listing. So it’s a double-whammy…photos AND write-ups. There is no reason a buyer can put it back on me, unless I missed something else wrong with the slab.

Also, I’ll do a ‘percent off’ sale after the initial sales run, in case a buyer will actually submit for a reholder to fix the slab. It’s saves them a little money to pay for the reholder.

I don’t mess with getting comics graded or fixed anymore, thanks to CGC’s constant ‘we don’t care about our customers’ attitude. 🤨🤨
Post 112 IP   flag post
-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkinWillie
I've had quite a few CGC submittals over the past year - very little NRs on them. Bought one GA book on eBay a few years back that looked like an oil slick and I returned that to the seller. I do the modern slabs thing with CGC and have had good luck with them so far.

This raises a question. If rings aren’t considered defects according to CGC (and thus, non-returnable), should sellers be on the hook for them?


Going back to this question, individual sellers don't have the pull to make all their buyers accept newton rings as normal. So sellers, and buyers, should both do their part to ensure a successful transaction. In my opinion, a seller should list the severity of the newton rings in the listing and provide pictures. Then, it's on the buyer to read and look. Basically, it's still the same as it always has been. This announcement by CGC does nothing (literally) as far as I'm concerned.
Post 113 IP   flag post
Why just the women? I like bears. Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
I've returned one book that I bought off Ebay due to excessive rings.

I know there are lots of collectors/submitters who have no problem with NRs (no matter the amount), however, if you are one of these people, please do not tell me that I shouldn't. On the contrary, do not be so obtuse to think that everyone should feel the same way about them as you do.

One more thing, the fact that CGC considers NRs to be acceptable means absolutely nothing to buyers, and shouldn't. And sellers should acknowledge this fact.
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" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Sellers don’t disclose at their own (reputational) risk.

Of course there are degrees… both for seller and buyer tolerance. Therefore degrees of reputation risk too.

As for CGC’s new policy, the part that stands out is the return window. Simply absurd. On their NR policy - I would still return if excessive in my view regardless of their policy. Of course becomes an uphill battle so I would only do if egregious (clearly subjective).

Earlier I gave an estimate of % of Newton’s Rings and how many were severe of my small collection. I will be photographing my books in a more systematic way and will use as an opportunity to catalogue it better.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
.
CGC has acknowledged that their slabs may contain rings, something that can be temporarily removed only to reappear later.

CGC has also stated that they do not consider this a defect.

Thus, this is a risk you take as a buyer of CGC slabs.

If a food manufacturer states that their product “may contain peanuts”, there will still be those people who return the product to the seller because they found out it “contained peanuts”.
Post 116 IP   flag post
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@CaptainCanuck A food manufacturer puts "may contain peanuts" on their labels. When CGC puts "may form newton rings at any time" on their labels, then you'll have a fair comparison.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
@CaptainCanuck A food manufacturer puts "may contain peanuts" on their labels. When CGC puts "may form newton rings at any time" on their labels, then you'll have a fair comparison.

Another example is a car brand known to have faulty transmissions. Some people will continue to buy them and continue to complain.

Bottom line is, if you’re not prepared to have rings in your slab, don’t buy a CGC slabbed book.
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-Our Odin-
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
@CaptainCanuck A food manufacturer puts "may contain peanuts" on their labels. When CGC puts "may form newton rings at any time" on their labels, then you'll have a fair comparison.

Another example is a car brand known to have faulty transmissions. Some people will continue to buy them and continue to complain.

Bottom line is, if you’re not prepared to have rings in your slab, don’t buy a CGC slabbed book.


Faulty transmissions will trigger a recall from the manufacturer. Heck, a faulty sensor will trigger a recall.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O

There you have it. CGC doesn’t consider rings a defect, so therefore no recall.
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Jesse_O

There you have it. CGC doesn’t consider rings a defect, so therefore no recall.


We've already established that. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't insist on saying stuff like "crystal clear nature of the plastics".

Edit: that's why we are talking about if the seller is on the hook for them.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
@CaptainCanuck A food manufacturer puts "may contain peanuts" on their labels. When CGC puts "may form newton rings at any time" on their labels, then you'll have a fair comparison.

According to this logic, CBCS and CGC labels should have “book may contain pressed defects that have retuned at any time, rendering the grade inaccurate. Please return book to seller for a refund”.
Post 122 IP   flag post
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
@CaptainCanuck A food manufacturer puts "may contain peanuts" on their labels. When CGC puts "may form newton rings at any time" on their labels, then you'll have a fair comparison.

According to this logic, CBCS and CGC labels should have “book may contain pressed defects that have retuned at any time, rendering the grade inaccurate. Please return book to seller for a refund”.


No. Pressing is a service, not a product. And the only way to check the book is to break it out, thereby voiding the grade.

Look, we obviously don't agree. I'm just going to leave it at that.

Excessive amounts of newton rings, right from CGC, should be a reason for CGC to reholder them. Personally, I think they screwed themselves by adding the mechanical error option on the form and got FLOODED with newton ring submissions!!! Rather than try to redesign their slab (again), they decided they wouldn't fix the newton rings anymore. It's not the first time CGC has screwed their customers in a royal fashion. I'm sure it won't be the last.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
No. Pressing is a service, not a product

You are confusing grading with slabbing.

The actual “grade” is also a service, just like pressing.
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
No. Pressing is a service, not a product

You are confusing grading with slabbing.

The actual “grade” is also a service, just like pressing.


What?? Aren't we talking about newton rings any more?
Post 125 IP   flag post
I haven't aired it out. It's part of the provenance. Galen130 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
No. Pressing is a service, not a product

You are confusing grading with slabbing.

The actual “grade” is also a service, just like pressing.


What?? Aren't we talking about newton rings any more?


And why are they called that??!! I'm pretty sure Isaac didn't approve of that term. Someone else CGC probably pissed off.


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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O

Essentially, I pointed out that the pressing service could eventually render the grading service inaccurate, but that’s not depicted on the label either.
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Why just the women? I like bears. Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Jesse_O

There you have it. CGC doesn’t consider rings a defect, so therefore no recall.

A few weeks ago, they DID consider them a defect.
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Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaard
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Jesse_O

There you have it. CGC doesn’t consider rings a defect, so therefore no recall.

A few weeks ago, they DID consider them a defect.

Obviously not. Quality control still shipped them out as is. I could understand a few slipping through, but not hundreds or thousands.
Post 129 IP   flag post
Why just the women? I like bears. Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
They ship 100s/1000s of slabs out with defects.
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